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Old 05-20-2018, 09:06 AM   #15
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Originally Posted by uncle_bob View Post
Hi

From driving both vehicles, I'd say my 2017 F-250 is *less* stable than an older F-150 ( despite the significant added weight .... ).

Straight up replacement of an Equaizer at a dealer will run you about $1,000 or so. That includes things like the giant gizmo that goes from the oversized hitch socket on the truck to the ball for the trailer. I believe retail on that part is near $400 all by it's self.

Bob

Bob, interesting statement "F-250 less stable than older F-150". Why do you say this and why do you you think this is?


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Old 05-21-2018, 08:16 AM   #16
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Originally Posted by sbowman View Post
Bob, interesting statement "F-250 less stable than older F-150". Why do you say this and why do you you think this is?


Best regards and safe travels
Hi

It's about ten feet higher up in the air than the old trucks were "back in the day". Any pickup truck is already a bit high compared to your neighbor's Ferrari or his Porsche ( he's out washing the cars ....) . Getting the center of mass up in the air is not how you improve stability. They also are light in the tail if not blasted. Putting an ton of gear in the bed can help that. Again, they start off disadvantaged. Next the new F-250 has a lot of side area way up in the air. Hit it with a good bit of wind and you notice it. On top of this throw in a suspension that is .... yikes .... soft. The ride is nice and smooth. Stability suffers.

That's just the short list.... and no, I'm not knocking the truck. I'm quite happy with it. I simply would not claim that somehow it is what it is not ....

Bob
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Old 05-24-2018, 08:33 AM   #17
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My Kenworth is considerably heavier than a half ton (3X, easily). But not more stable. Far less

COG trumps vehicle weight every time.

And to the OP: with an even worse version of the ubiquitous pickup, you somehow “think” a Hensley-patent hitch is too expensive? Ha!

It’s your truck that’s the weak link for rig stability. And needs the better hitch more than the TT does. It’ll be the likelier cause of a loss-of-control accident as the AS is more stable.

At the very least, set up the rig using a certified scale. FALR or close. If the trailer is also level, you’ll be the unusual sight on the Interstate in NOT dragging the AS nose-down on the front axle.

“Muh magic one ton series pickemup “ doesn’t exist despite its commonality.

.
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Old 05-25-2018, 07:57 AM   #18
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Hi

One of the things I do regularly is to pull the trailer out of storage and run it over to the house. Being utterly useless and lazy ( just ask the wife ), I don't put the bars on the hitch when I do. The rationalization is that I'm close to the ground and moving slow on back roads.

In that configuration, the rig *does* get a big lively, even at 45 MPH. Yes, you *do* learn how to pull out of a sway situation doing this. It still ( at least to me ) suggests that there is no magic with a F-250 pulling a 30' AS. You need all the help you can get ( or afford or aren't to lazy to install or .... )

Take a look at any decent sports car. They all are low to the ground. That's how you keep things stable in a turn. High up in the air is for driving over giant rocks at < 3 mph ....

Bob
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Old 05-26-2018, 12:11 PM   #19
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Originally Posted by uncle_bob View Post
Hi

One of the things I do regularly is to pull the trailer out of storage and run it over to the house. Being utterly useless and lazy ( just ask the wife ), I don't put the bars on the hitch when I do. The rationalization is that I'm close to the ground and moving slow on back roads.

In that configuration, the rig *does* get a big lively, even at 45 MPH. Yes, you *do* learn how to pull out of a sway situation doing this. It still ( at least to me ) suggests that there is no magic with a F-250 pulling a 30' AS. You need all the help you can get ( or afford or aren't to lazy to install or .... )

Take a look at any decent sports car. They all are low to the ground. That's how you keep things stable in a turn. High up in the air is for driving over giant rocks at < 3 mph ....

Bob
I would hope you drive your truck differently than your sports car. They are made to go fast around curves. Not much use to load up your, grill, generator, firewood , lawnchairs, dogs, wife , mother-in-law etc. And than hook up and tow a 30' AS 3,000 miles.
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Old 05-27-2018, 09:23 AM   #20
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I would hope you drive your truck differently than your sports car. They are made to go fast around curves. Not much use to load up your, grill, generator, firewood , lawnchairs, dogs, wife , mother-in-law etc. And than hook up and tow a 30' AS 3,000 miles.
Hi

Most certainly would drive it differently. The reason you spend $450K on that sports car in the driveway next door *is* to drive it differently. If not, why spend all that money?

The point is that the design compromises that go into the sports car are what make it more stable. The fact that it can't make it over a typical bump in the road is just "the way it is". If they *could* get over those bumps and still pull a million g's in a curve, they most certainly would. That's the only "handling" category that the truck beats it.

If I hop in and start down a bumpy road, I really get knocked around in the sports car. The F-250 is nice and smooth by comparison. I'd have to go back to a "bad old" F-250 from a decade or two ago to get a truck that rode that harsh. Yes, magic springs are part of it. A lot of it is an entire suspension (shocks etc) that is now tuned for comfort rather than stability.....

Then you get into axles and even more exotic issues ....

Again, to be clear - I'm not into a build it yourself TV. There are very few "off the shelf" solutions to this problem. I'm ok with the compromise I have. If I was going to a DIY answer to the problem, who knows where that would get to...

Bob
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Old 05-27-2018, 10:19 AM   #21
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Originally Posted by uncle_bob View Post
Hi

The new(er) F-250's *are* high off the ground. That does not do anything good for stability. That's true with a trailer hooked up or simply driving around. Yes, I own an F-250

One thing to consider is how much money you want to spend. If something in the three or four thousand dollar range is "in budget" that puts pretty much everything on the market in play.

Another thing to consider is how much you are bothered by this or that when hooking things up. Some of these systems are a bit more involved to work with than others. Is it a matter of another 5 or 10 minutes? ... that depends.

Past that, there is no real argument that the fancy stuff ( ProPride etc ) works better than the less exotic systems. What gets debated endlessly is just how much you *need* that added margin. Like the questions above. Only you can make that call.

Bob

Unfortunately you statement is not true Bob.


I have had both F150 and three F350's since 2010.The f350 stability in all weather conditions ( I have pulled in 75 mph winds near the Grand Canyon) is far superior to the F150 in stability and control.I have pulled the same 28ft International with both.These observations come from people that have never driven or owned a 2012 and up Ford Superduty truck.


By the way I have 23 years of experience with Ferrari and Lamborghini and while they due have a low COG but would suck at pulling a Airstream.Every vehicle has a purpose, A Ford Superduty was built pull trailers with comfort and ease but they are not for the racetrack.




I have pulled with a Airsafe Hitch coupled to a Equalizer 4 point WD for the last 60,000 miles and I would not change a thing.
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Old 05-28-2018, 07:58 AM   #22
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Hi

Most certainly would drive it differently. The reason you spend $450K on that sports car in the driveway next door *is* to drive it differently. If not, why spend all that money?

The point is that the design compromises that go into the sports car are what make it more stable. The fact that it can't make it over a typical bump in the road is just "the way it is". If they *could* get over those bumps and still pull a million g's in a curve, they most certainly would. That's the only "handling" category that the truck beats it.

If I hop in and start down a bumpy road, I really get knocked around in the sports car. The F-250 is nice and smooth by comparison. I'd have to go back to a "bad old" F-250 from a decade or two ago to get a truck that rode that harsh. Yes, magic springs are part of it. A lot of it is an entire suspension (shocks etc) that is now tuned for comfort rather than stability.....

Then you get into axles and even more exotic issues ....

Again, to be clear - I'm not into a build it yourself TV. There are very few "off the shelf" solutions to this problem. I'm ok with the compromise I have. If I was going to a DIY answer to the problem, who knows where that would get to...

Bob
Mine on the front would look like a Corvette and rear end like an F-350 :-)
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Old 05-28-2018, 08:03 AM   #23
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Unfortunately you statement is not true Bob.


I have had both F150 and three F350's since 2010.The f350 stability in all weather conditions ( I have pulled in 75 mph winds near the Grand Canyon) is far superior to the F150 in stability and control.I have pulled the same 28ft International with both.These observations come from people that have never driven or owned a 2012 and up Ford Superduty truck.


By the way I have 23 years of experience with Ferrari and Lamborghini and while they due have a low COG but would suck at pulling a Airstream.Every vehicle has a purpose, A Ford Superduty was built pull trailers with comfort and ease but they are not for the racetrack.




I have pulled with a Airsafe Hitch coupled to a Equalizer 4 point WD for the last 60,000 miles and I would not change a thing.
Hi

I don't own multiple trucks at the same time and tow with them on alternate days ... sorry about that. My comparisons are to older trucks I owned "back in the day" and what I now own.

Bob
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Old 05-28-2018, 11:20 AM   #24
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Unfortunately you statement is not true Bob.


I have had both F150 and three F350's since 2010.The f350 stability in all weather conditions ( I have pulled in 75 mph winds near the Grand Canyon) is far superior to the F150 in stability and control.I have pulled the same 28ft International with both.These observations come from people that have never driven or owned a 2012 and up Ford Superduty truck.


By the way I have 23 years of experience with Ferrari and Lamborghini and while they due have a low COG but would suck at pulling a Airstream.Every vehicle has a purpose, A Ford Superduty was built pull trailers with comfort and ease but they are not for the racetrack.




I have pulled with a Airsafe Hitch coupled to a Equalizer 4 point WD for the last 60,000 miles and I would not change a thing.


Uncle bob seems to like his truck - enjoys towing with it and doesn’t seem at all interested in towing with a sports car.

He simply said the height of the truck lends itself to some degree of a lack of stability. It’s a more than fair statement. And it’s coming from a person who owns the larger truck and has experience with it.

Why get cranky about it?
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Old 05-29-2018, 09:21 AM   #25
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Uncle bob seems to like his truck - enjoys towing with it and doesn’t seem at all interested in towing with a sports car.

He simply said the height of the truck lends itself to some degree of a lack of stability. It’s a more than fair statement. And it’s coming from a person who owns the larger truck and has experience with it.

Why get cranky about it?
There are way too many cranky old farts around this site.
State what, with and how you do it and that's that.
Each to his own, whatever floats your boat.
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Old 05-29-2018, 08:14 PM   #26
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There are way too many cranky old farts around this site.

State what, with and how you do it and that's that.

Each to his own, whatever floats your boat.


Yes!
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Old 05-29-2018, 10:18 PM   #27
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I have pulled with a Airsafe Hitch coupled to a Equalizer 4 point WD for the last 60,000 miles and I would not change a thing.
I would like to know more, I am on the fence between Pro Pride or a conventional WD setup and an Air Safe. What hitch do you use with the Air Safe? Did you go with Air Safe just so the TT will ride smoother?
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Old 05-30-2018, 09:37 AM   #28
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New 250 and Hitch shopping

We use a Equilizer Hitch by the Airsafe is the key.You can use virtually any WD hitch that you choose except Propride or Hensley as they are not compatible with Airsafe.The Airsafe makes a big difference in how the trailer rides and the normal jerk back felt when going over bumps is not existent.
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