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Old 02-18-2016, 06:30 PM   #71
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Originally Posted by dznf0g View Post
Yes , if I understand you correctly. The drawback is more amplitude of porpoising on those sections of road prone to create it. BUT, just like I didn't buy a 2500 Duramax solely for the 5% of miles I'll drive in the mountains, I don't hitch for the 1% of roads that'll cause porpoising.

😃 look - I don't know if I understand myself correctly! 😳😃

As I've displayed in this and all threads in which I've participated, I'm not an engineer and I have no understanding of physics. I'm trying to parse what those who understand those disciplines say for my own simple consumption.

If heavier springs/WD bars are "stiffer" they could contribute to a harsher ride. Yet they would also be capable of levering more weight to the axles. So in my case - with 1100# entering the hitch receiver, 1000# bars would not be able to move 100% of the load. The good news is, they wouldn't have to do that as only 500# actually come off the front axle. BUT - wouldn't I have to flex that 1000# spring harder to move 500# (half of the bars' capability back to the front axle) than the 1400# spring (just over a third of their capability)?

In my experience, I had to crank the WD jacks to almost 7" to get 50% FALR with 1000# bars on my PP and now I crank to 6" for 100% FALR with my 1400# bars. The higher capacity bars aren't so "tightly sprung/taxed" to push the weight - so doesn't that make it a "springer/softer" ride?

Dagnabbit! It's like listening to a language you don't speak 😃
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Old 02-18-2016, 06:31 PM   #72
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Depends on the Caddy

😂
Isn't that the CadVette?
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Old 02-18-2016, 06:42 PM   #73
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Good thread.

The next puzzle in my mind. Which has more flexibility left for undulations on the road, 800# bars fully loaded or 1400# bars partially loaded?
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Old 02-18-2016, 06:46 PM   #74
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Good thread.

The next puzzle in my mind. Which has more flexibility left for undulations on the road, 800# bars fully loaded or 1400# bars partially loaded?
In my experience, the 800# bar. All this discussion assumes we are not OVER stressing the spring bar.
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Old 02-18-2016, 06:52 PM   #75
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Originally Posted by SteveSueMac View Post
😃 look - I don't know if I understand myself correctly! 😳😃

As I've displayed in this and all threads in which I've participated, I'm not an engineer and I have no understanding of physics. I'm trying to parse what those who understand those disciplines say for my own simple consumption.

If heavier springs/WD bars are "stiffer" they could contribute to a harsher ride. Yet they would also be capable of levering more weight to the axles. So in my case - with 1100# entering the hitch receiver, 1000# bars would not be able to move 100% of the load. The good news is, they wouldn't have to do that as only 500# actually come off the front axle. BUT - wouldn't I have to flex that 1000# spring harder to move 500# (half of the bars' capability back to the front axle) than the 1400# spring (just over a third of their capability)?

In my experience, I had to crank the WD jacks to almost 7" to get 50% FALR with 1000# bars on my PP and now I crank to 6" for 100% FALR with my 1400# bars. The higher capacity bars aren't so "tightly sprung/taxed" to push the weight - so doesn't that make it a "springer/softer" ride?

Dagnabbit! It's like listening to a language you don't speak 😃
I disagree that the lighter bar wasn't capable of moving equal weight. It will just have more bow at a given preload than the higher rated bar. This is accomplished on a conventional hitch by applying more head tilt.
You bring up a drawback of PPP hitches. The head must be on a horizontal plane. Thus, you must take up the greater bow solely with Jack height.
My vision of a lighter bar for PPP would be at 800# with about a 105 - 115 degree bend at the head end, instead of 90 degrees. Alas, there is no such animal.
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Old 02-18-2016, 07:49 PM   #76
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So at the end of the day, RFP sets up hefty bars. Is the test the "bounce test" to see if there's some flexibility, a ride on a washboard road and post-rivet count or something else to determine to stick with them or go to the 800# bars?

And is a trip to the scales required to conduct the experiment to calculate tongue weight and know for sure how much is getting transferred to the TV front and TT axles?

Very fascinating discussion!! Thanks for your patience while I tag along, RFP!
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Old 02-18-2016, 07:49 PM   #77
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The PPP hitch bars operate farther back from the truck's rear axle than a conventional hitch, because of the longer design to accommodate the linkage. It is my understanding that this greater distance requires a higher rated bar to get the same w.d. as bars used with a conventional w.d. hitch?

I described our Ram 1500 and FC 25 Airstream with Sean at ProPride and asked for 1,000 lb bars. He said no, we need 1400# bars or would have difficulty transferring enough weight.

Another related topic. Does the head of the PPP hitch need to be level, and why? As you may know, Can-Am likes to tilt the w.d. bars downward to the rear stating this helps with handling and returning the trailer to center. With the PPP hitches this helps prevent the "Hensley bump". I put in all the washers the rivet will hold in ours and still would like to see more tilt. CanAm achieves more tilt by bending the PPP stinger downward slightly on these.
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Old 02-18-2016, 07:53 PM   #78
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Doug. Colobial added washers for that reason to mine. It sort of points the stinger down so even though the head is at 90* that downward slope sort of forces the head (and a-frame I suppose) upward - like having the handles of a wheel barrow angled downward so you have to bend your knees to get the handles and as you straighten your knees, your already pushing the weight on to the wheel.

Again - what the heck do I know? 😂

I do love the improvement in feel!
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Old 02-18-2016, 08:03 PM   #79
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Originally Posted by SteveSueMac View Post
So at the end of the day, RFP sets up hefty bars. Is the test the "bounce test" to see if there's some flexibility, a ride on a washboard road and post-rivet count or something else to determine to stick with them or go to the 800# bars?

And is a trip to the scales required to conduct the experiment to calculate tongue weight and know for sure how much is getting transferred to the TV front and TT axles?

Very fascinating discussion!! Thanks for your patience while I tag along, RFP!
Steve, Inland Andy (Inland Airstream) has been in the Airstream business a thousand years and he says the "bounce test" is a good test. Others scoff at it. We trust the judgement of experience in this case; he's repaired a lot of broken Airstreams.

We can't realistically run back and forth to the scales, too far away. So we use wheel well measurements to set up our hitch before each major trip. A great convenience of the Hensley/ProPride is the weight distribution screw jacks for tweaking the w.d. to each particular load, turn the screw jacks and the load moves.
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Old 02-18-2016, 08:12 PM   #80
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That tilt that CanAm welds into haha, and the tilt with more washers in PP accounts for the receiver slop and brings the head back to level. When it is tilted up, the upper head "runs downhill " when off center, aggravating the hensley bump. That's why I have a PP made adjustable stinger for haha that Sean made.
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Old 02-18-2016, 08:16 PM   #81
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I don't believe the longer bar story. For 2 reasons; I was told, iirc, by hensley that there are only a couple of bar manufacturers and they are commonly sourced by all hitch manufacturers. Second, the front of the bars mount in the same location, or close to, relative to ball position and all my snap-up and jack brackets are in the same location on the A-frame.
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Old 02-18-2016, 08:27 PM   #82
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I also question the "longer bar requires more force" thing. The longer the lever, the greater the mechanical advantage for torque.
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Old 02-18-2016, 08:49 PM   #83
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So at the end of the day, RFP sets up hefty bars. Is the test the "bounce test" to see if there's some flexibility, a ride on a washboard road and post-rivet count or something else to determine to stick with them or go to the 800# bars?

And is a trip to the scales required to conduct the experiment to calculate tongue weight and know for sure how much is getting transferred to the TV front and TT axles?

Very fascinating discussion!! Thanks for your patience while I tag along, RFP!
The "end of the day" test for me was some a-frame flex and a popped rivet with my EQ 1000# bars and getting out of the truck while the tv rear wheels were in a dip, and seeing virtually no flex in the Eq bars and the rear wheels hanging in the air. OK, I exagerate, but the truck was way too high in the air.
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Old 02-18-2016, 10:08 PM   #84
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The "end of the day" test for me was some a-frame flex and a popped rivet with my EQ 1000# bars and getting out of the truck while the tv rear wheels were in a dip, and seeing virtually no flex in the Eq bars and the rear wheels hanging in the air. OK, I exagerate, but the truck was way too high in the air.
Exactly when I pulled the Equal-I-Zer and then a second hitch off and began looking for a more flexible w.d. bar. Inland Andy's test of w.d. bar flexibility confirms this, sometimes referring to the EQ bars as railroad rails.
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