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Old 04-29-2018, 09:32 AM   #41
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Massaging the tow limits

I’m no pretend lawyer, nor do I play one on TV. That said, I like to review and understand tow ratings, load capacity, axle ratings, and all that. It helps me understand what my chosen tow vehicle can likely pull and carry down the highway, which leads me to reasonable trailer weights, tongue weights, and requisite hitch rigging. It doesn’t help when Airstream’s stated tongue weights aren’t useful in the real world (at least for not for me, because my actual tongue weight has always been significantly higher than their number, from day 1). Doesn’t mean I would absolutely get a truck vs an SUV vs some other kind of car, but that is the info I can get my hands on, so its what I use.
There are no magic wands, and there’s no clear need out of the gate for a 1-ton diesel to pull anything made out of aluminum. Use your best judgement, buy whatever you believe will work best for your needs based on the numbers you can find, and tell us how it works out.
BTW, I do agree that if you’re in range of Andy at his CanAm dealership, he’ll show you some very interesting things about what’s possible and safe for TV / trailer combos with the right hitch setup. For us, that’s a multi-thousand-mile trip, so unless we’re in the neighborhood and can schedule a paid hitch-rigging tuneup appointment, we’re out here like everyone else, doing the best we can.
Best of luck, and don’t forget that in the end you want to be camping and having a safe, satisfying and wonderful time.
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Old 04-29-2018, 09:53 AM   #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by james.mileur View Post
Jennifer, I went back and re-read your original post.

You are so correct; I looked at the glances you stated at exceeding limits and focused on crushing your temptations.

My bad; please forgive.
Forgiven.

One of the things I apologized to the readers was that I offered TMI in my initial post. I think sometimes people get lost in too much details, which is why I did the follow up post to clarify that my question was about physics, not trying to find a way to get around safety standards.

With Can-Am, clearly they've found a way to massage the tow limits and was curious as to how they--or any other company--does that. When I mentioned the medieval architecture, it was the same thing they did back then, in that they found a way to distribute weight to make buildings taller.

Pithy I am not!
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Old 04-29-2018, 10:05 AM   #43
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Originally Posted by davejay View Post
Hey you guys,
I know your looking into a unit. If you want to see an AS close by. Mine in its last phases of completion,for our trip to Montana this summer. I invite you out to just kind look at one of these things. You may want a motorhome as opposed to a trailor. Just a though. Anyway, there s the offer. Go out silver spring turn left at pilgrim road look to your left. You lol see our unit I'll give you a tour. DJ
Hi Dave
I wish! No, we're awhile off from buying an Airstream...we have too many other things, just built a house, etc, to afford that. And, we may do a little cheapo trailer to start off with, to be sure we're all in with doing the RV thing.

However, we're going to be doing errands in your neck of the woods in the next couple days--Costco run--so I may try to swing by anyway and do a drive-by and get it in the hubby's head in Airstream as the final destination (pun intended). So thanks for the offer.
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Old 04-29-2018, 09:40 PM   #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1000Miles View Post
Forgiven.

One of the things I apologized to the readers was that I offered TMI in my initial post. I think sometimes people get lost in too much details, which is why I did the follow up post to clarify that my question was about physics, not trying to find a way to get around safety standards.

With Can-Am, clearly they've found a way to massage the tow limits and was curious as to how they--or any other company--does that. When I mentioned the medieval architecture, it was the same thing they did back then, in that they found a way to distribute weight to make buildings taller.

Pithy I am not!
I am sure that Can Am can do, and does, many good things to make tow vehicle better, safer, more comfortable, etc. However I don't believe they can increase the towing limits set by the manufacturer. That is up to the manufacturer.
I doubt that medieval architecture was subject to the legal system we have today.
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Old 04-29-2018, 10:03 PM   #45
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Tow limits aren’t anything but the recommendation of a private party. No force in law. Follow that path and wind up with a bad combination. It’s a guarantee. A great deal more than weight or payload matters. Those are not problems.

One respects the axle/wheel/tire ratings. A WD hitch redistributes the heavy weight from one point and spreads it over three. The forces are dissipated thus. Done. Fini.

Of WD hitches there are two types. The Hensley patent licensees, and all others. Of the second class hitches, the Reese Dual Cam (the original) is still the best.

I second the recommendation of a Casita or similar. They’re well-built and have strong customer support. Entry to ownership and experience is easier. They retain their value and should sell quickly.

A tow vehicle is first and foremost family transportation. That’s the single important metric. Properly hitching a TT (rarely done well around here, but important) isn’t rocket science. Nor are fears expressed, justified. The real problems are in steering, handling & braking. A TV that is compromised in these is the bad choice.

Luckily there are many great choices. Fully independent suspension and short rear overhang are the two easiest to ascertain. Engine power, etc, is a non-statrter the past dozen years. Today’s passenger vehicles are far better in this line than what was available forty or more years ago.

Andrew Thomson (in his posts here, and columns in RV Lifestyle “Hitch Hints” are a good beginning. See their website at Can Am RV) systematized all the categories we had to go thru a half century back. A consultant to both SAE and Airstream. More than 10,000 tow rigs set up.

Is a pickup the default choice? Only for the ignorant (when it has no business miles, etc), so take your time. It shouldn’t be so easy to shoot down, but there’s plenty of fact to make good decisions.

A loss of control accident is the usual problem. Adverse winds and driver over-correction are the problem when towing. The better TV is at least as stable as the TT. Would you prefer the one which initiates an accident?

An AS is best (search the reasons, it’s engineering) and a Casita only needs a change to torsion axles to be similar.

The worst TVs are bought on emotion. “Fear” just isn’t accountable when reason offers plenty of line entries for examination.

.
" slowmover opinions"
*My responses: nothing personal, just the facts

"Tow limits aren’t anything but the recommendation of a private party. No force in law. Follow that path and wind up with a bad combination. It’s a guarantee. A great deal more than weight or payload matters. Those are not problems."

*Private party??? Manufacturers are not private parties. And they are held
to standards by courts and lawyers. That is why weight and payload limits
DO matter.

"One respects the axle/wheel/tire ratings. A WD hitch redistributes the heavy weight from one point and spreads it over three. The forces are dissipated thus. Done. Fini."

*A WD hitch cannot increase the maximum payload, trailer weight limit or
Tongue weight limit of any tow vehicle.

"Of WD hitches there are two types. The Hensley patent licensees, and all others. Of the second class hitches, the Reese Dual Cam (the original) is still the best."

*I agree that Reese is still the best, but it is not a ‘second class’ hitch. I
agree that Hensley may be marginally better at sway control, but the extra
weight can be a problem for TV with limited tongue weight or payload
capability.

"I second the recommendation of a Casita or similar. They’re well-built and have strong customer support. Entry to ownership and experience is easier. They retain their value and should sell quickly."

*NO comment. I don’t know any of these trailers.

"A tow vehicle is first and foremost family transportation. That’s the single important metric. Properly hitching a TT (rarely done well around here, but important) isn’t rocket science. Nor are fears expressed, justified. The real problems are in steering, handling & braking. A TV that is compromised in these is the bad choice."

*The single most important metric of a tow vehicle is that it must have the
ability to tow the trailer and carry the necessary load
SAFELY and LEGALLY.

"Luckily there are many great choices. Fully independent suspension and short rear overhang are the two easiest to ascertain. Engine power, etc, is a non-statrter the past dozen years. Today’s passenger vehicles are far better in this line than what was available forty or more years ago."

*Engine power gets you up the mountain.
A guy who drives a Dodge/Cummins should agree with that."

"Andrew Thomson (in his posts here, and columns in RV Lifestyle “Hitch Hints” are a good beginning. See their website at Can Am RV) systematized all the categories we had to go thru a half century back. A consultant to both SAE and Airstream. More than 10,000 tow rigs set up."

*I am sure that Can Am does good work, but I don't believe they can
increase the load carrying limits of any TV.
That is up to the vehicle manufacturer.

"Is a pickup the default choice? Only for the ignorant (when it has no business miles, etc), so take your time. It shouldn’t be so easy to shoot down, but there’s plenty of fact to make good decisions."

*Calling people who choose a pickup ‘ignorant’, is the MOST ignorant
comment that you have made in this post. There are many reasons to
choose a pickup that have nothing to do with towing or family
transportation. Like I have a motorcycle and a generator that have to ride
somewhere. (more payload issues)
Got any other suggestions?

"A loss of control accident is the usual problem. Adverse winds and driver over-correction are the problem when towing. The better TV is at least as stable as the TT. Would you prefer the one which initiates an accident?"

*First 2 sentences are probably accurate. I don’t have any idea what you
mean with the last 2 sentences.

"An AS is best (search the reasons, it’s engineering) and a Casita only needs a change to torsion axles to be similar."

*First part likely true; second part, I don’t know if that is all it needs.

"The worst TVs are bought on emotion. “Fear” just isn’t accountable when reason offers plenty of line entries for examination."

*What does this mean??? I really don't understand some of your
comments. I would like to get more details so that I might.

.
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Old 04-29-2018, 10:52 PM   #46
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Tow limits are mere recommendations. This is the fact. No basis in law. If you know facts to the contrary, please share.
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Old 04-30-2018, 04:36 AM   #47
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When you say basis, is that based on a cop pulling you over or based on standing in the front of a room with your hand on the Bible?

"When asked about towing liability issues, Dean Holleman, Vice President and Managing Attorney of Boyce Holleman & Associates in Gulfport, Mississippi, says, “Any person who tows a trailer would be responsible to know that the towing vehicle has certain limitations which should not be exceeded.
“If the accident is caused by the vehicle being used to tow something it was not designed to tow, this could be an act of negligence by the driver, and under the theory of negligence that person most probably would be held liable,” Dean says.
He also says that while some vehicle owners may argue the tow ratings and the proper setup of their vehicle isn’t clearly noted or easy to find, he feels “most vehicles do have proper warnings and posting of limitations of towing weight.”
When it comes to negligence or the failure of the driver’s “duty to tow only that which the vehicle is designed to tow,” Dean and other attorneys we spoke with about this issue agree: If there’s an accident and the towing vehicle isn’t properly configured for the trailered weight, the injured person or persons will probably win any ensuing lawsuit."

Here

Or this

"Towing without regard to the properly-equipped limitations instantly makes the driver face the “Law of Negligence” charge in the eyes of an astute attorney and opens the door wide for a lawsuit.
And don’t think adding a heavier-duty hitch changes the limits set by the vehicle manufacturer: The only authority legally able to alter a pickup’s tow rating limits is the vehicle manufacturer.

No matter what hitch, suspension, brake, cooling, or engine upgrades you make to your pickup, its towing and load-carrying limits can’t change once it leaves the assembly line.

Tow or haul a load exceeding the original manufacturer’s stated limits and you assume all risks and responsibilities while the vehicle is in motion."

Here
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Old 04-30-2018, 07:42 AM   #48
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1) Quoting an ambulance-chaser is funny.

Unlike most of you I’ve used one tons in commercial service. That year model Dodge I drove was “rated” GCVWR at 20,000-lbs. That’s what it weighed, indeed, with gooseneck flatbed I’d attach. And then I’d head to the oilfield tool company and proceed to load 10-12,000-lbs on it. I’d often be at 31-33,000-lbs. No matter the weather or conditions it had to get there. Fast. And down roads I’d never take my own vehicles. Service life was around 300k miles.

This was with the full knowledge of the insuring parties (more than one). This was with the VERIFIED knowledge of the state (weigh stations) and/or DOT personnel pulling us over for one of three levels of comprehensive inspection.

The legal “concern” were and are the axle/wheel/tire limitations.

Any farmer, rancher or contractor faces the same. Albeit at a lower level of liability. And they “overload” them plenty often. Legally, as per above limitations.

2). What you kiddies aren’t hearing is that YOU would have been doing the same as me or Andy or anyone else circa 1968 if you’d wanted to tow your Airstream. The factory usually provided a hitch receiver schematic. You went to your local hitch shop and the certified welder put together the far-better-than-today’s factory hitch receiver. You used the same method (we called it the One Third Rule: 33% TW WD per axle even though it wasn’t exactly so) you should be using today even though it’s been backed off as FALR (the starting point).

There are those who find, today, that 110% FALR makes for better Towing. It’s some trial and error. The point of using a segmented, certified scale is two-fold: replicable results; and setting TV tire presssure when WD is applied.

Our cars didn’t wear out prematurely (200k), now did we cry about not having an exhaust brake (trailer needs better brakes; so long as you have drums you must adjust those yourself, LEARN HOW).

3) I’ve stated before and will again how to weigh the safety compromise of using a pickup truck as family transportation:

A). What IRS deductible miles apply? What solo business concerns? What solo bed load? What are the constants about needing a pickup (versus the feigned confusion around here between need and want)?

B). What gear goes in the pickup bed that cannot EVER be carried in the TT or TV passenger compartment? What does it weigh?

C). If a generator is cited, what hours was it in use while camping the past calendar year?

As a solar electric system has been available the past thirty years (my 1990 has a factory installation) what number of hours was the generator run to provide air-conditioning?

Are we down to 20-30 Hours? Something ridiculous per day-in and day-out safety compromise for all miles of family transportation? A pickup that, solo, runs around with an empty or near-empty bed?

You want common sense? It’s tested proof. Not advertising copy. Where engineering lack makes cost low, and glitz makes the profits high.

If you want to be afraid of something, you SHOULD be afraid of a loss-of-control accident. It won’t be due to “Payload” (and your misunderstanding of how WD works) nor will it be due to “Tow Rating” (where scores of other vehicles aren’t tested; thus the inherent lie of such).

It WILL be due to the bad choice of a TV (long wheelbase 4WD truck or similar high ground clearance SUV) where COG is high, steering has no feedback, and due to excessive size is slow to respond at all.

A Diesel engine exhaust brake is of no value. These little trailers aren’t heavy enough. Used without SIMULTANEOUS TT brake application on a grade descent it makes matters worse, as the TT is primed for out-of-control sway due to adverse natural or man-made winds with slack in the rigging.

Any Airstream will benefit by a Hensley-patent hitch AND anti-lock disc brakes PLUS trailer-mounted electronic antisway (TUSON Corp; also their brake controller). Older hitches aren’t close to comparable, but there, some are to be avoided (Andersen, or Equalizer).

The ignorant (to be kind) will — having first failed at hitch rigging with their half-tons — proceed to worsen the thing by moving to the one ton series. Without the corrections to TT and rigging that would have healed the problems. Instead, let’s applying a plaster cast to it. Wrong diagnosis and wrong treatment.

Telling us that the better-suited Honda Odyssey or Buick Enclave (as examples) are “slow” up the grade makes you the laughing-stock. Completely out of your depth.

Willfull ignorance, boys. If indeed there is such a thing as sin, this is it.

.
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Old 04-30-2018, 07:58 AM   #49
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Again, manufacturer tow specs are only recommendations. There is not industry standard that manufacturers are obliged to follow. A cop will not stop you for being over the tow specs, because there is noting in the law that would let him to do this (exceptions, towing commercially, towing in a couple of states where registration tax depends on the tow specs owners would like to make a use of and then paying less, but towing more...).

The text below is full of vague language: this could be, under negligence theory person most probably, etc. Everybody will find in the text what he is looking for. For me it is just lawyer bla bla bla.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RandyNH View Post
When you say basis, is that based on a cop pulling you over or based on standing in the front of a room with your hand on the Bible?

"When asked about towing liability issues, Dean Holleman, Vice President and Managing Attorney of Boyce Holleman & Associates in Gulfport, Mississippi, says, “Any person who tows a trailer would be responsible to know that the towing vehicle has certain limitations which should not be exceeded.
“If the accident is caused by the vehicle being used to tow something it was not designed to tow, this could be an act of negligence by the driver, and under the theory of negligence that person most probably would be held liable,” Dean says.
He also says that while some vehicle owners may argue the tow ratings and the proper setup of their vehicle isn’t clearly noted or easy to find, he feels “most vehicles do have proper warnings and posting of limitations of towing weight.”
When it comes to negligence or the failure of the driver’s “duty to tow only that which the vehicle is designed to tow,” Dean and other attorneys we spoke with about this issue agree: If there’s an accident and the towing vehicle isn’t properly configured for the trailered weight, the injured person or persons will probably win any ensuing lawsuit."

Here

Or this

"Towing without regard to the properly-equipped limitations instantly makes the driver face the “Law of Negligence” charge in the eyes of an astute attorney and opens the door wide for a lawsuit.
And don’t think adding a heavier-duty hitch changes the limits set by the vehicle manufacturer: The only authority legally able to alter a pickup’s tow rating limits is the vehicle manufacturer.

No matter what hitch, suspension, brake, cooling, or engine upgrades you make to your pickup, its towing and load-carrying limits can’t change once it leaves the assembly line.

Tow or haul a load exceeding the original manufacturer’s stated limits and you assume all risks and responsibilities while the vehicle is in motion."

Here
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Old 04-30-2018, 07:58 AM   #50
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Unfortunately, it is not 1968 any more.
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Old 04-30-2018, 08:31 AM   #51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GM Airstream View Post
Here is the skinny on tow vehicles (TV)... The manufacture states that his vehicle can tow so much... the feds require him to not only calculate it but also go do it... thus the new rules on what a vehicle can LEGALLY tow under the law.

Now you go buy his vehicle... and ASSUME all the legal ram's... but what you put on or do to it is your doings... to which if you go put a hitch on it... the hitch manufacture is not responsable' for your action... YOU ASSUME... it because you own it.

Can the hitch manufacture say things to get you to buy theirs'... YES... you can pull a elephant with a mouse with the right gearing.. getting it stopped is another issue... but again its the buyer who is held accountable as the end user... and as such ignorance is no excuse when you get busted or stopped because you are under rated. ....
...or kill someone ...which will ruin your life if you survive.

Remember the cute promotional-advertising where a bicyclist is pulling an Airstream? Notice that he is only pulling it.... not stopping it once it's in-motion... Or being pushed in a downhill-turn.

A Weight Distributing hitch...no matter which brand... forces the tow-vehicle and the towed-vehicle to share the total weight amongst the shared axles. Think of "welding" the frames of the TV and the TT together into one, long vehicle. Think about when you cross a ditch and the TV front axle and TT axle is doing most of the work while the TV rear axles is being supported by those other axles.
Just because you've shifted some of the trailer's weight onto the TV axles...doesn't mean that you haven't unintentionally exceeded the axles designs.
Even worse IMO, is the situation when approaching/departing a rise or swale or RR-track or drainage ditch etc etc... when the TV front axle and the trailers axle(s) are carrying the burden while the TVs rear axle has been off-loaded. The TV steering-suspension will be subjected to excess loading as will the TTs axle(s).
And THAT is why one should never exceed vehicle tow ratings... and instead THAT is why we should all self-certify that we are WELL BELOW RATED TOWING CAPACITIES.

(WD hitches are actually a band-aid for mis-matched towing. A WD does not improve safety of well-matched vehicles. An ordinary ball-hitch allows articulation between TV and TT which is a good thing....IF the vehicles are well-matched.)

The other issue is sway-control. Some sort of sway control should always be in your planning. Some WD hitches address sway... most do not actually do so regardless of advertising claims. Friction sway-control is better than none, and will work even with an ordinary ball-hitch.

I'd also suggest to you Jennifer, that you reconsider the SOB approach. There is nothing that will ease your first-time-towing experience than a quality TT that follows the TV as well as an Airstream. I understand completely your thinking of the SOB. I was planning the same process and we looked at other brands mostly in the interests of economy ... using that plan to discover if we really liked the camping experience as much as we hoped.
My dear wife frowned at the SOBs and surprised me when she over-ruled my caution (I'm the impulsive one) by immediately saying "We'll take it!" at the first Airstream we closely examined. We've never been sorry. (But the dissatisfaction you're likely to find with SOB may color the entire experience unfavorably for you.)
If you're considering the towing issues as you seem to be doing.... then get all the hardware working in your FAVOR. Get an Airstream and match it with the appropriate TV.
Hope this helps.
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Old 04-30-2018, 09:33 AM   #52
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Question

snip "(WD hitches are actually a band-aid for mis-matched towing. A WD does not improve safety of well-matched vehicles. An ordinary ball-hitch allows articulation between TV and TT which is a good thing....IF the vehicles are well-matched.)

Please don't keep us in suspense...tell us how you 'well-match'....we be dying to know bro. 😂

Bob
🇱🇷
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Old 04-30-2018, 12:00 PM   #53
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Originally Posted by bono View Post
Tow limits are mere recommendations. This is the fact. No basis in law. If you know facts to the contrary, please share.
Try telling that to any vehicle manufacturer's warrantee department after you have a premature failure of anything while towing.

I doubt they will be sympathetic.
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Old 04-30-2018, 12:09 PM   #54
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I've never heard about a premature failure of anything because of towing. Have you? Examples?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Abraham View Post
Try telling that to any vehicle manufacturer's warrantee department after you have a premature failure of anything while towing.

I doubt they will be sympathetic.
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Old 04-30-2018, 02:12 PM   #55
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Quote:
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I've never heard about a premature failure of anything because of towing. Have you? Examples?
Yes.....loss of good sense and sound judgment in practical matters. 👍
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Old 04-30-2018, 06:28 PM   #56
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If you have to use an Internet forum for advice like this, maybe rethink towing altogether.
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Old 05-02-2018, 08:30 PM   #57
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Forgiven.

One of the things I apologized to the readers was that I offered TMI in my initial post. I think sometimes people get lost in too much details, which is why I did the follow up post to clarify that my question was about physics, not trying to find a way to get around safety standards.

With Can-Am, clearly they've found a way to massage the tow limits and was curious as to how they--or any other company--does that. When I mentioned the medieval architecture, it was the same thing they did back then, in that they found a way to distribute weight to make buildings taller.

Pithy I am not!

I'm a bit late to the party, but here goes.

I have a Can-Am creation, a 2011 Toyota Sienna Minivan that tows a 7000lb Airstream. Tow rating? 3500lb.

Before getting embroiled in a big debate the derivation of tow ratings, I can tell you how our Minivan is modified to deal with the load.

The hitch receiver is braced with two lengths of steel, welded behind the receiver box and bolted to the van at a point just behind the rear axle. This modification stiffens the whole assembly and counters the torque generated by the weight distribution system. The torque has to go somewhere so it goes mostly to the front axles, but also transmits some back to the axles on the trailer. The net result is a far more even spread of the load over all the available axles.

Can-Am also installed a second transmission oil cooler, and provided the fairly simple Eaz-Lift WD and anti-sway bars.

We're just starting our seventh year with this set up and I can tell you, from experience, that we've had no towing issues at all. The Toyota is my daily drive and it too has had no issues since I bought it new in 2011.

For sure, I don't carry firewood or a generator, or kayaks or bikes; that would be too much load. By the same standard, I can't race up hills at 75mph (even if I wanted to). But, we travel light and the setup suits us, regardless of what others may say or think.

What's the magic? There is none. What about the tow rating? Clearly that was an arbitrary figure provided by Toyota (it's interesting to note that every Minivan, of every make and model and from any year has the same 3500lb rating) because towing 7000lbs doesn't seem to have affected the van in any way. What validity does the tow rating have? Well, it's a guide, really. Toyota could not say for sure that their product couldn't tow over their rating, they just don't advise it. Has it been tested? Unlikely, at least not by the manufacturer, but Can-Am and many thousands of customers test these vehicles all the time.

By the way, exceeding the manufacturers' tow rating breaks no law in any State or Province in the USA and Canada. Liability issues may exist but I've yet to see any documented case going against the owner of an "underrated" privately owned tow vehicle involved in a collision. I'm happy to be proved wrong, but no one has ever come up with the evidence.
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Old 05-03-2018, 09:25 AM   #58
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Originally Posted by ROBERT CROSS View Post
snip "(WD hitches are actually a band-aid for mis-matched towing. A WD does not improve safety of well-matched vehicles. An ordinary ball-hitch allows articulation between TV and TT which is a good thing....IF the vehicles are well-matched.)

Please don't keep us in suspense...tell us how you 'well-match'....we be dying to know bro. ��

Bob
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Not sure what you mean, Robert... perhaps you're making an attempt at humor... or perhaps you're sarcastically attempting to bait me...? I thought my comments were fairly clear to indicate that you don't try to tow a 30-footer with a VW Bug.
As a generalization, I'd guess that if the trailer is properly equipped with brakes sized for that trailer... and if the gross wt and length of that trailer does not exceed somewhere around 150% of the Tow-vehicle in both wt and distance between hitch and trailer axles versus TV wheel-base... and if the hitch tongue wt is not exceeded for the TV... then the two are "well matched".
If all that is confusing...then maybe one don't know enough about ordinary physics to attempt selecting and driving tow vehicles pulling trailers. Does that explanation provide some guidance as to what my opinion is on the subject?

PS: as my signature/avatar imply, I tow a 22' Sport weighing less than 4,000 lbs, loaded, and tongue wt of 425 lbs, ... with a pickup truck (rated to tow 7,000) weighing somewhat more than the trailer (5200) and with a wheelbase similar to the hitch-to-trailer-axle distance on an ordinary ball-hitch system rated at 7K/10K lbs and an allowable tongue wt of 700 lbs. I use a friction anti-sway and typically cruise at 65 mph (and wear a Nomex suit when visiting forums.)
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Old 05-03-2018, 12:37 PM   #59
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^
?
Sorry.

My bad...i didn't take notice that it was just your opinion and not a written in stone fact.

"If all that is confusing...then maybe one don't know enough about ordinary physics to attempt selecting and driving tow vehicles pulling trailers. Does that explanation provide some guidance as to what my opinion is on the subject?"

A little, but the syntax is still a bit confusing.

Let me see if I have it correct, the ordinary physics dictates that if you have a great big tow vehicle pulling an itty-bitty trailer you don't need WD. Is that about it?

Streaming happy, down different roads together. 👍😂👎

Bob
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Old 05-03-2018, 10:54 PM   #60
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Originally Posted by ROBERT CROSS View Post
^
?
Sorry.

My bad...i didn't take notice that it was just your opinion and not a written in stone fact.

"If all that is confusing...then maybe one don't know enough about ordinary physics to attempt selecting and driving tow vehicles pulling trailers. Does that explanation provide some guidance as to what my opinion is on the subject?"

A little, but the syntax is still a bit confusing.

Let me see if I have it correct, the ordinary physics dictates that if you have a great big tow vehicle pulling an itty-bitty trailer you don't need WD. Is that about it?

Streaming happy, down different roads together. 👍😂👎

Bob
🇱🇷
Nope... that's not "about it"... IT...is apparent however, you're wanting to ridicule sensibility if it doesn't copy yours.
I still consider WD hitches "band aids". A Band-Aid is a good idea if there's a reason to use one...but it won't make "great big" trailers towed by "itty-bitty" tow vehicles safe. Properly matching TV with TT is good sensibility and to grossly do otherwise...WD hitch or not.... and ridiculing those who match their TV with their TT says all I need to know to stay away from someone. Happy trails and good luck.
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