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Old 04-20-2018, 09:26 AM   #161
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gypsydad View Post
Welcome Henry; nice looking rig! Lots to digest in the Forum on this subject If you don't do much long haul pulling with your AS, might work out fine. If you do, perhaps you may consider these 3 questions in making sure your ok with your Durango:
1) what is the payload on your Durango (located on the drivers door) say?
2) how much do you carry total (driver weight, passenger weight, cargo weight, 27'AS tongue weight, loaded?)
3) what is your trailer weight loaded (truck scale weight) and what is the Durango max trailer tow weight?
You may be fine in all categories', but I would be surprised.

We all love the ability to drive our vehicles every day without much of a hassle, and larger trucks surely present some challenges, but most of us did not buy larger PU's for daily driving and maneuvering...least I did not. I bought my 3/4T Diesel to pull a large 28' AS; like you are pulling...mainly for payload, engine braking, torque/power, stability on the road when pulling, and piece of mind..I went thru 2 Tahoe's before my first PU for my AS's. night and day...
Hello GypsyDad,
Our Durango has a tow rating of 7,400 lb. Our 27FB weighs 5,870 empty and is rated up to 7,600 lb loaded - so we're not too far off. The Dodge Ram pick-up with the same engine and transmission is rated for 8,550 lb and up. Incidentally, the new 2018 Durango V-8 now has a 8,700 lb tow cap.
We're aware we're close to the published limits with this rig so we keep it light. But in reality, it tows beautifully. Very smooth riding, no sway and the 8-spd transmission does it's thing with no coaxing. Certainly a better tow vehicle than an old GMC Suburban we had in the past.
PS: We also tow a 25-ft boat with the Durango. All-up weight on that is about 6,750 lb - we did weigh that one.
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Old 04-20-2018, 09:54 AM   #162
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If I ever go full time in retirement, with just my wife and I, I'm not afraid to become a diesel truck guy.
My statements and questions were not intended to reflect on type of fuel one uses. Intent was simply some people like trucks and some people like SUV's. What a person picks to use works best for them nothing more.
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Old 04-20-2018, 04:11 PM   #163
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Originally Posted by mikextr View Post
@pteck-- What is your "Cruise Missile"?
Hellfire missile might be more descriptive.

But it's a 911 turbo. Fitted with bigger turbos, bigger injectors, and a whole lotta fun.
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Old 04-20-2018, 05:28 PM   #164
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HClews View Post
Hello GypsyDad,
Our Durango has a tow rating of 7,400 lb. Our 27FB weighs 5,870 empty and is rated up to 7,600 lb loaded - so we're not too far off. The Dodge Ram pick-up with the same engine and transmission is rated for 8,550 lb and up. Incidentally, the new 2018 Durango V-8 now has a 8,700 lb tow cap.
We're aware we're close to the published limits with this rig so we keep it light. But in reality, it tows beautifully. Very smooth riding, no sway and the 8-spd transmission does it's thing with no coaxing. Certainly a better tow vehicle than an old GMC Suburban we had in the past.
PS: We also tow a 25-ft boat with the Durango. All-up weight on that is about 6,750 lb - we did weigh that one.
I like the 8 speed and the Hemi, but poor mileage! My real question was directed at the "actual" payload and weights of your Durango...we all understand that pretty much any vehicle, and many folks have their "favorite", can tow an AS....but when you start getting up in size, the larger TV can be very beneficial in safety as well as capability. Not saying your Durango can't tow or handle an AS on a flat road, nor challenging your ability to drive. The original post was about and SUV or 3/4T TV as the tow source....so we are a bit off topic. My point is, the overall capability is not what weight your vehicle can tow, but more over, what is it rated for? Below are pictures of numbers from a new 2018 1/2T door jam 1323 Max payload; that weight is marginal with a 27' AS tongue weight, driver, passenger, cargo. After looking at RAM's earlier last year, I could not find anything above this weight in a 1/2T on a lot. Curious what your payload is on the Durango?

Next pictures are of my current 3/4T F250 TV- Max payload at 2144lbs shown in door jam.
Next picture shows the numbers from my 28' AS; note the tongue weight on the lower scale pictures is shown disconnected from the TV; it is 1100 pounds...not the 976lbs the brochure specs list....note the overall tow weight loaded of the trailer also.

But, I'm getting too far off topic here as usual...I would not go back to an SUV over a PU TV after owning both...and for my size trailer, the 3/4T diesel I feel is the way to go. But that's my input...just be aware of your OEM limits, drive safe; remember, there are other folks on the road and unforeseen driving hazards do happen...
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Old 04-21-2018, 05:35 AM   #165
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Reply to OP

LC is for city driving and small road trips. LC will run forever and are safe. Love them. We have an 04 with 150K miles and it might be my favorite ride. Nothing rattles. My 17 250 is not fun in the city. Highway pulling it rides way better loaded up. Good luck. Both rides are great choices.
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Old 04-21-2018, 07:53 AM   #166
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gypsydad View Post
I like the 8 speed and the Hemi, but poor mileage! My real question was directed at the "actual" payload and weights of your Durango...we all understand that pretty much any vehicle, and many folks have their "favorite", can tow an AS....but when you start getting up in size, the larger TV can be very beneficial in safety as well as capability. Not saying your Durango can't tow or handle an AS on a flat road, nor challenging your ability to drive. The original post was about and SUV or 3/4T TV as the tow source....so we are a bit off topic. My point is, the overall capability is not what weight your vehicle can tow, but more over, what is it rated for? Below are pictures of numbers from a new 2018 1/2T door jam 1323 Max payload; that weight is marginal with a 27' AS tongue weight, driver, passenger, cargo. After looking at RAM's earlier last year, I could not find anything above this weight in a 1/2T on a lot. Curious what your payload is on the Durango?

Next pictures are of my current 3/4T F250 TV- Max payload at 2144lbs shown in door jam.
Next picture shows the numbers from my 28' AS; note the tongue weight on the lower scale pictures is shown disconnected from the TV; it is 1100 pounds...not the 976lbs the brochure specs list....note the overall tow weight loaded of the trailer also.

But, I'm getting too far off topic here as usual...I would not go back to an SUV over a PU TV after owning both...and for my size trailer, the 3/4T diesel I feel is the way to go. But that's my input...just be aware of your OEM limits, drive safe; remember, there are other folks on the road and unforeseen driving hazards do happen...
Yeah, we get your POV on this too. It's almost like you guys are offended that anything else can be capable. Not just capable, my LX tows it with absolute aplomb. A 27/28 AS is well within the capacities of larger SUVs. It we were talking about a 34' panamerica, we'd share a position on this.

The Durango looks to be an excellent TV for that trailer. Beautiful rig.
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Old 04-21-2018, 08:09 AM   #167
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LC is for city driving and small road trips. LC will run forever and are safe. Love them. We have an 04 with 150K miles and it might be my favorite ride. Nothing rattles. My 17 250 is not fun in the city. Highway pulling it rides way better loaded up. Good luck. Both rides are great choices.
I've towed with my previous generation 100-series LX470 too. Your '04 is probably only adequate for a 22' AS. It would be labored as the stock motor is already quite taxed not towing with 235hp/320tq. And this is pre the significant vvti power upgrades of the 06/07 which I had to tow an AS 23D. Worked great for that size AS.

The 200-series is a huge bump with over 150hp more, and higher capacities. Not saying it can do an 34' AS, that's 3/4T territory. But it will certainly haul a 27/28.
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Old 04-21-2018, 08:22 AM   #168
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Funny thing happened on the way to the forum....

The Airstream literature tongue weight of our 2013 25FB International Serenity is 833 pounds. At time of pickup from selling dealer, the trailer had new street side and rear awnings dealer installed, single 155 watt solar panel on roof, Hensley Arrow hitch head installed, Tekonsha Prodigy RF brake control head installed on tongue, full propane and water tanks. Tongue weight was 1,150 pounds. Fully loaded c amping ready the tongue weight was 1,175 pounds with all the tools in the rear

The Airstream literature tongue weight of our 2014 31' Classic is 773 pounds. After installing the solar system with four Lifeline 300 amp-hour GSM batteries @ 96 pounds each behind the propane tanks in a stainless steel enclosure and putting the Magnum MS-2812 inverter under the sofa behind the 12Vdc power panel, the tongue weight was 1,376 pounds. Changing the four Lifeline batteries and removing the stainless steel enclosure and installing a single 600 amp-hour lithium battery under the sofa dropped the tongue weight back to 1,175 pounds.

The Airstream literature tongue weight of the 2015 23D International Serenity is 720 pounds. After installing the Tekonsha Prodigy RF brake controller from the 25FB along with the Hensley Arrow hitch from the 25FB and lots of other modifications, the tongue weight is now 962 pounds camping loaded.

The common thread in these three different trailers is that the literature tongue weight was not a realistic number to base a tow vehicle purchase on. Many folks I have chatted with have found that their tongue weight hovers around 1,000 pounds or more.

So a proposed tow vehicle with 1,350 pounds or less of payload could find themselves overloaded with just a driver and passenger (based upon our "super size me" population).

The goal of the setup is that the axles are within their load capacity tires on the tow vehicle and trailer with tire load capacity exceeding the axle rating (presuming properly sized and inflated tires) and the headlights are not aimed into the tree tops when hitched.

Reading this many threads in this forum, one often sees multiple new tow vehicles over a short period of time as folks discover that choice #1 was inadequate to the task at hand and then choice #2 etc.

This means a potential RV purchaser has to get some real world information and not from the VI salesman who will say anything to get a sale.
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Old 04-21-2018, 08:31 AM   #169
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Originally Posted by pteck View Post
Hellfire missile might be more descriptive.

But it's a 911 turbo. Fitted with bigger turbos, bigger injectors, and a whole lotta fun.
Hellfire missile indeed!
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Old 04-21-2018, 08:38 AM   #170
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What we see (go and look; more than a dozen years of threads) is trading one problem for a bigger problem without first having tried to correct the hitch rigging on the original choice.

Those who do use the scales can get the thing done. Maintain the benefit of a better design. Do it right, instead of give up. It ain’t rocket science.

And a 1,000-lb TW leaves 500-lbs or less to “Payload” once WD set. (Go weigh the vehicle with and without the stuff. Where does the load increase, on which axle?).

“Ratings” aren’t understood. Please factor the frontal area restriction. Etc.

Focus on “weight” will not give a good TV nor a stable rig. Nor one that lasts longer or is more reliable.
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Old 04-21-2018, 09:12 AM   #171
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Quote:
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Hellfire missile might be more descriptive.

But it's a 911 turbo. Fitted with bigger turbos, bigger injectors, and a whole lotta fun.
Do you track it?
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Old 04-21-2018, 10:17 AM   #172
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The GVWR posted on the door of our Durango is 7100 lb.
As for mileage, we get about 22 mpg w/o trailer and about 12 mpg with our 27FB in tow.

Henry Clews
2017 Signature 27FB - #6267
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Old 04-21-2018, 01:26 PM   #173
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Do you track it?
I have. It's incredibly fun. But I also recognize it's a liability having more hp than some real race cars. Need a full cage, which wouldn't make for a good street car, of which it is first and foremost.

I only bring this up because of the 3/4T naysayers. I can say the LC specifically, works more well for a 27/28 class of trailer. Power is there. I know when a car is overloaded or overdriven. It is not. It's margin on stability is solid. This is always subject to proper setup of course.

At the same time, I've done some off road oriented mods which classically don't help towing, power, or braking. I've done my due diligence to counter it as well by shortening the stinger 3". And power and braking are still strong.
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Old 04-21-2018, 02:39 PM   #174
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The GVWR posted on the door of our Durango is 7100 lb.
As for mileage, we get about 22 mpg w/o trailer and about 12 mpg with our 27FB in tow.

Henry Clews
2017 Signature 27FB - #6267
2017 Durango R/T V-8
Equal-i-zer E4
Henry- Payload...not GVWR....note the number in the middle of the door jam sticker like the one below. On this one it says: "Combined weight of cargo and occupants should never exceed 2144lbs." What does your say was my question. You may be fine. You don't want to exceed that number if you can help it. Remember the devil on one shoulder saying "go ahead" and the angel on the other saying "be safe; stay within your guidelines"?. I doubt anyone advising differently here would stand up in court in your defense, should you have an accident and be out of specs...but if your careful, likely may never happen anyway.
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Old 06-24-2018, 09:53 AM   #175
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Short update:

I sold my fun car and just have my truck for daily driving. The most recent Sync update resolved some wonky electronics issues so I am much less annoyed day to day.

I may upgrade the suspension once I get educated to improve daily driving quality, but we shall see.

The new baby is due in 4 months, and I may just get a Chrysler Pacifica Hybrid for family hauling around, and I would likely drive the wife's 2011 X5 to work.

So, step 1 complete - working on the rest....
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Old 06-24-2018, 04:39 PM   #176
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I doubt you will be happy going from an F250 to a Toyota LC. You will be maxed out in the LC, and I suspect fuel mileage will take a hit, too.
I just upgraded from a 2016 Expedition EcoBoost to a 2018 F250 Diesel. Not even a comparison.
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Old 06-24-2018, 05:50 PM   #177
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I doubt you will be happy going from an F250 to a Toyota LC. You will be maxed out in the LC, and I suspect fuel mileage will take a hit, too.
I just upgraded from a 2016 Expedition EcoBoost to a 2018 F250 Diesel. Not even a comparison.
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Did you test drive the 2018 Expedition at all? I was considering borrowing one for a test tow....
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Old 06-24-2018, 06:28 PM   #178
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I have owned multiple Land Cruisers. The FJ60 1985 Land Cruiser with the inline 6 cylinder, to the current 2008 Land Cruiser with a capacity to tow 8,500#. Curb weight 5,690 pounds and cargo up to an additional 1320#. You may pay more up front, but the resale is excellent. At 150,000+ miles the front wheel bearings will begin to go bad. Just replace the entire front end and avoid just replace the bearings. Not much more cost and you get a new differential. Keep that in mind.

When we sold our LC's, it was primarily to large families. Seven people with two in front, three in back and two jump seats. When you figure passengers, cargo and the trailer… the weight begins to push the safety limit for me.

The 2014 Tundra 4x4 5.7L did fine with the 25 foot in pulling, but again, the cargo and trailer pushed the springs on the rear axle flat. This brought me to the F350 Diesel 4x4. It was purchased just before the ‘aluminum’ bed models were coming out and this Ford Lot in Denver was flowing over with cars and F250/F350 from the previous year.

I would say that the F350 Diesel towing anything smaller than a 25 foot Airstream would be overkill. But seats only five. We seat ourselves and two pet porters with one Blue Heeler in each on the back seat.

I can understand why a late model LC would be of interest with family and pets. This will be a tough decision. It would be nice if you could entice a dealer to let you hook up a late model used LC to your 30 foot to give it a… tug down the highway. You would need to install the brake controller, as I do not recall if or when LC has them as standard. I would also look to check the hitch, first, on the LC to confirm it is 2”. Not smaller. If smaller, you have your answer. I never looked, as there is a plastic cover to conceal the hitch sleeve.

Gas mileage should not be a big factor in your decision. Much like installing cheap tires or dependable tire decision on a trailer, is never a good choice.

There are some heated conversations that give you food for thought. Switz is always a good mentor to consider… although he has not had a LC to grind numbers at home.

I feel that the 5.7L Land Cruiser would tow well. You will not get a Toyota Dealership to go from LT Michelins 36psi to LTX Michelins 80psi for additional capacity. They will say it is a Luxury Vehicle and is suppose to have a softer ride. Costco, would only install tire size that were listed on the door frame. Consider that as well. You are in a tough position. Your family deserves the best you can afford.

I wish you well. The F250/350 seating is the deal breaker for you. I understand.
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Old 06-24-2018, 07:44 PM   #179
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Short update:

I sold my fun car and just have my truck for daily driving. The most recent Sync update resolved some wonky electronics issues so I am much less annoyed day to day.

I may upgrade the suspension once I get educated to improve daily driving quality, but we shall see.

The new baby is due in 4 months, and I may just get a Chrysler Pacifica Hybrid for family hauling around, and I would likely drive the wife's 2011 X5 to work.

So, step 1 complete - working on the rest....
Glad you got the weird stuff worked out. I have an F150 3.5 Ecoboost to pull my 28’AS. Works wonderfully and I average 22.5 mpg for daily driving. It’s rated to tow 11,000lbs. Use a Propride hitch which really adds to stability.

But I will be going to a 3/4 in a few years for traveling to the mountains. But my family is raised. I would not want to use a 3/4 ton for daily driving. The Dodge RAM was a nice ride, and the Cummins is a great engine. But not as nice a ride as my F150.

But I think having a family car is a wise decision. We always had a Dodge or Ford van for the family (I have 5 children). It was a great people carrier. I think you will be wise to keep the Platinium for a TV and use something else for the family as a daily driver.
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Old 06-25-2018, 09:10 AM   #180
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Even is dealer and Costco would not install the tires the owner wants (sound bizarre for me, but anyway), there are thousands other tire shops that would do this. What's the issue?

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Originally Posted by Ray Eklund View Post
(...)

I feel that the 5.7L Land Cruiser would tow well. You will not get a Toyota Dealership to go from LT Michelins 36psi to LTX Michelins 80psi for additional capacity. They will say it is a Luxury Vehicle and is suppose to have a softer ride. Costco, would only install tire size that were listed on the door frame. Consider that as well. (...)
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