Light Diesel Market To Grow 168% In 2018 And Another 86% In 2019

[Roadtech]

Originally Posted by PKI

The ethanol subsidy has been on my list for a long time. I like corn in my corn flakes, beef and bread. I don't like corn in my fuel tank. Pat

I agree wholeheartedly. The alcohol (ethanol) industry should not get subsidies. Neither should oil and gas, solar, wind, electric cars, etc.

[GettinAway]

I wish some of the Diesel engines available in other parts of the world would be available here. Toyota must see something negative in the future regarding diesel, or they would have brought in the diesel landcruiser by now. I know US regulations are difficult and expensive to work around, but people here seem to be willing to pay.

[switz]

Many folks in the US have never been out of the country. They lack the visual experience of seeing our brands overseas. Guess what? They make small cars & trucks with two, three and four cylinder diesel engines everywhere but here.

My father in law has a 1.0L three cylinder diesel in his Smart car in the UK and gets 60 mpg city and 80 on the motorway. Because the engine is so "small" there is no road tax like I get hit with on my 2002 3.2L straight six turbo diesel Mercedes E320 Estate (station wagon) which was £305 this year up from #290 the year before. BTW, the Smart car was brought here with only the 1,0L gasoline engine that had to have premium gasoline and a fuel efficiency in the mid 20s mpg wise.

Everywhere else in the world fuel is far more expensive and the vehicles are smaller than our behemoths. I was over in the UK for my wife's mother's funeral this past February (2018), and the conversion price from liters to gallons and pounds to dollars was about $6.75 per gallon.

The Vehicles here get much lower mpg than the vehicles overseas and our fuel prices are lower. There seems to be an interesting relationship when one does a simple calculation. Take the US relatively low mpg times our price per gallon (we use a lot of fuel per vehicle)and compare that cost to a similar calculation to a vehicle overseas with high mpg and high fuel prices (use much less fuel) and compare the resulting number and one sees that big oil is getting about the same revenue per vehicle.....

[tjdonahoe]

Originally Posted by switz

So, per the latest news, if the Russians are the silent partner in our electrical grid and can disrupt it at their whim, maybe anything drivable that is totally electric and has to be plugged in to operate might not be the best deal at this time.

The battery technology is not there yet to give me 700 mile non-refueling range towing our 9,200 pound Classic and scaling 19,200 pounds for the rig. So far, the upgraded size fuel tanks for the pickups are for diesel fuel only. These larger fuel tanks are specifically not usable with gasoline due to impact considerations and resulting gasoline fires.

My experience with my 2007 Mercedes ML320 CDI turbo diesel (3.0L v6) is 28.5 mpg highway as all wheel drive. When the car was built, the 3.2L gas model got a maximum of 21 mpg highway. There was usually a 30% better mpg for the diesel motor version vs the same size gasoline motor in most European cars (is also applicable to my 2002 3.2L straight six turbo diesel Mercedes station wagon in the UK versus the 3.2L gasoline and the diesel was quicker off the line to speed).

They are now testing big trucks..80,000 lbs....500 Miles....45 minute recharge time..they are now doing it...Tesla..

[Countryboy59]

Originally Posted by xrvr

Regardless if how many industries get govt money, the electric car industry would not exist without it.

That’s hilarious and not even close to true.

Here’s a question for you: why is gasoline $2.50 a gallon when we would gladly pay $5 and we buy just as much at $5 as we do at $2.50? I think competition in energy sources is a good thing.

Unfortunately environmental concerns may limit the use of Diesel engines, but that’s not likely to affect the use in light trucks.

[Roadtech]

Originally Posted by Countryboy59

Here’s a question for you: why is gasoline $2.50 a gallon when we would gladly pay $5 and we buy just as much at $5 as we do at $2.50?

I would pay $5, but I wouldn't do it "gladly".

[xrvr]

I stand by my statement that without govt handouts the electric car industry would not exist.

[Countryboy59]

Originally Posted by xrvr

I stand by my statement that without govt handouts the electric car industry would not exist.

Stand by whatever you want. Without proof it’s just another opinion.

[wbrisett]

Originally Posted by switz

Many folks in the US have never been out of the country. They lack the visual experience of seeing our brands overseas. Guess what? They make small cars & trucks with two, three and four cylinder diesel engines everywhere but here.

True. But as somebody who at least once a quarter goes to Europe, and driving with my coworkers over there, there are many reasons for these small diesel cars. Roads or lack of high speed roads is one of them, along with fuel prices.

One thing that Fiat has already acknowledged is that they know their existing engines won't meet the upcoming Euro5 standard. When the VW scandal broke, random testing revealed that most of the vehicles on the road didn't meet the current standard, so there's a lot of work for manufacturers to do if they want to continue pushing diesel cars in Europe.

-Wayne

[wbrisett]

Originally Posted by xrvr

I stand by my statement that without govt handouts the electric car industry would not exist.

There are many industries like this. Tax rebates (aka subsidies) are quite common and while you may disagree with them, in the long run the tend to actually help. Without them, many industries couldn't get off the ground and those industries are the usually things which employ people, who pay taxes, buy homes, etc. I know it run counter to the gut feeling people have about tax rebates for various industries, but I've seen them work.

[crispyboy]

Originally Posted by Countryboy59

Here’s a question for you: why is gasoline $2.50 a gallon when we would gladly pay $5 and we buy just as much at $5 as we do at $2.50? I think competition in energy sources is a good thing.

No one gladly pays $5/gallon for fuel...... I have been visiting this forum for going on 10 years and back when fuel went up in price to $4.00/gallon many folks really curbed their traveling miles and stayed closer to home. Many also spoke of selling their rigs. You increase the cost of fuel too much and the economy tanks. People won't spend the money or cannot spend the money.

[Countryboy59]

Originally Posted by crispyboy

No one gladly pays $5/gallon for fuel...... I have been visiting this forum for going on 10 years and back when fuel went up in price to $4.00/gallon many folks really curbed their traveling miles and stayed closer to home. Many also spoke of selling their rigs. You increase the cost of fuel too much and the economy tanks. People won't spend the money or cannot spend the money.

Usage stays the same regardless of fuel cost. Hence the term “gladly”. No, they’re not happy about buying it, but they do.

I’m all for any alternative energy options that keep prices low.

[Roadtech]

Originally Posted by Countryboy59

Usage stays the same regardless of fuel cost.

[Countryboy59]

Originally Posted by Roadtech

It does. No one stays home from work. Vacationers are affected but commuting and essential driving stays the same.

[Countryboy59]

Originally Posted by switz

Many folks in the US have never been out of the country. They lack the visual experience of seeing our brands overseas. Guess what? They make small cars & trucks with two, three and four cylinder diesel engines everywhere but here.

My father in law has a 1.0L three cylinder diesel in his Smart car in the UK and gets 60 mpg city and 80 on the motorway. Because the engine is so "small" there is no road tax like I get hit with on my 2002 3.2L straight six turbo diesel Mercedes E320 Estate (station wagon) which was £305 this year up from #290 the year before. BTW, the Smart car was brought here with only the 1,0L gasoline engine that had to have premium gasoline and a fuel efficiency in the mid 20s mpg wise.

Everywhere else in the world fuel is far more expensive and the vehicles are smaller than our behemoths. I was over in the UK for my wife's mother's funeral this past February (2018), and the conversion price from liters to gallons and pounds to dollars was about $6.75 per gallon.

The Vehicles here get much lower mpg than the vehicles overseas and our fuel prices are lower. There seems to be an interesting relationship when one does a simple calculation. Take the US relatively low mpg times our price per gallon (we use a lot of fuel per vehicle)and compare that cost to a similar calculation to a vehicle overseas with high mpg and high fuel prices (use much less fuel) and compare the resulting number and one sees that big oil is getting about the same revenue per vehicle.....

Here’s one

[PKI]

Originally Posted by Countryboy59

It does. No one stays home from work. Vacationers are affected but commuting and essential driving stays the same.

Respectfully, when fuel cost goes up significantly, folks buy vehicles with better milage, curb trips to the store, and even car pool to reduce fuel cost. It's a big deal for many and even essential driving does change when the $s can't stretch enough to cover the essentials. You are correct that folks have to get to work. Just understand that the boundary condition is survival, not driving.

The worst part of higher fuel costs is everything gets impacted. Business slows down and folks lose their employment. The worst part of commuting, as much as I hated the whole process, was living with the fact that a quicker trip to work, meant a bunch of folks were unemployed. No, it does not stay the same!

[Countryboy59]

Originally Posted by PKI

Respectfully, when fuel cost goes up significantly, folks buy vehicles with better milage, curb trips to the store, and even car pool to reduce fuel cost. It's a big deal for many and even essential driving does change when the $s can't stretch enough to cover the essentials. You are correct that folks have to get to work. Just understand that the boundary condition is survival, not driving.

The worst part of higher fuel costs is everything gets impacted. Business slows down and folks lose their employment. The worst part of commuting, as much as I hated the whole process, was living with the fact that a quicker trip to work, meant a bunch of folks were unemployed. No, it does not stay the same!

I saw very little if any car pooling during the late 2000s, and neighbors started their cars in the driveway and warmed them up for 15-20 minutes as if fuel was free. I fooled around with small diesel cars and EVs but I stood out like a sore thumb. And my area was among the hardest hit.


Anyway, my point was alternative energy sources exert downward pressure on fuel prices. Fuel is a commodity and the cost is driven by market demand. Alternatives like electric and light Diesel engines help and I’m glad they’re available, subsidized or not. I’d like to see actual data (not regurgitated Internet “research” on everything that’s subsidized.

[GettinAway]

I'm not an economist, nor have I played one on TV, but I would think that if fuel demand always stayed the same, regardless of price, that the oil companies might be charging a little more for a gallon. I don't think that there's extreme competition amongst the oil companies driving prices down.
But, that's just my opinion, I could be wrong.

I for one, could be talked into a diesel, but right now, for me it just doesn't make sense. Initial costs are just too high. I don't put enough miles on my tv each year to justify it. Im happy to see the big three are moving forward with it. Maybe there will be great results with it in terms of fuel economy and durability, and enough of them will be out there that a used vehicle will be affordable. (For limited use.)

[Roadtech]

Originally Posted by Countryboy59

Fuel is a commodity and the cost is driven by market demand.

And supply, i.e., exploration, drilling, fracking, shale oil, refinery capacity, etc.

[PKI]

Originally Posted by Countryboy59

-- snip -- my area was among the hardest hit. -- snip -- my point was alternative energy sources exert downward pressure on fuel prices. -- snip --

Sincere sympathy for the folks in your area, that had it tough.

Can't fault that point. Additional energy availability helps to hold down cost. While fracking is taking a toll, the additional inventory is keeping the cost of fuel lower and buying time to develop renewable energy. The other issue may well be that domestic oil does not pass through several speculating owners who drive up the price on the way to the refinery. Pat