Just bought a 1989 34'. Towing thoughts?

[RedBearded]

Hi all,

I'm new here, but I have been drooling over the trailer for a while. I finally took the plunge quite unexpectedly and am now looking for a vehicle to tow with.

I'm looking at full timing and traveling slowly with lots of boondocking staying mostly with the weather. I figure If I put 15k on it in a year I would be surprised. I'm also trying to live as frugally as possible while I go (quality over quantity). I have emergency funds, but I'd prefer to make a good choice from the get go

I'm currently looking at getting a 03-06 Suburban 2500 4x4 with the 8.1L engine. I know that won't give me the MPG of a diesel, but I'd rather have the reliability of an engine that any mechanic under the hood would have to really try to screw up. I found an example which is interesting for me. I like that in this configuration it has 12k towing capacity, and I can take the rig off for day trips and adventure in it.

Are there any other vehicles I should consider?

[slowmover]

Since that trailer was designed to be towed by a car, why the overkill ?

If you just have to have 4WD to park long term on BLM land, there’s no reason a half ton won’t do. Or some SUVs.

Your proposed TV is still too “sophisticated “ old as I am. Age gives problems, not just complexity. And nearly all of that is electrical.

Moosetag and ol’ what’s his name from Buffalo both have had 8.1L Subs and been satisfied.

Were I you I’d start by determining what MUST go in the TV. And weigh it. Rent or borrow a vehicle and do empty and loaded weights.

“More” TV usually involves LESS capable road vehicles. Not good when not needed. The risk increase in every type of condition is unacceptable.

Also increases all vehicle costs. A lose-lose proposition.

I currently have a diesel pickup. If anything happened to it I’d replace it with a car. Bigger trailer than yours. Greater TW.

And if I paid someone to tow it a short distance once in a while (down a back road suitable for this TT type to be on), I’m still miles ahead on the rest.

Get the number above. Not the “maybe I’ll buy this crap someday” guesstimate.

More “stuff” doesn’t equal a better experience, overall.

Good luck.

[LiLNomad]

Welcome RedBearded
I love my Suburban 96 2500. Dont have the 4x4. I have a line of folks ready to buy it. Its a great tow vehicle and much easier (lower) for me to load gear, especially lifting the generator me being 5'1. Im sure others will chime in with more tow related details. I like the idea that I can drop the trailer and overnite in the Suburban (ive removed the 3rd row seat).
LilNomad

[Bill M.]

Certainly looks like a good TV for that trailer and full timing to me.

[RedBearded]

Thanks folks for the advice

Slowmover, I'm mainly looking at the truck because I want to be what I understood was legal in picking something that is rated to be towing a trailer as big as what i'm looking at. Did I miss a step? I didn't know there was a car that was capable of towing close to 10k loaded... I'm love to hear what you would get were your dodge to die

LILNomad, Do you wish you had the 4X4? My main concern is not to get stuck, but I am also aware that with a 4x4 once you are stuck you really, really need help, lol. I'm also thinking of having some kind of emergency recovery vehicle (small motorbike or something, but I'm still working through that possibility).

[CBWELL]

Welcome to te forum! You will enjoy your "new to you" rig. I pull our 34' with a 4X4, and have had to use the 4 wheel drive a few times to get moving on wet grass and a few slippery roads. Well woth having IMHO. I do like the diesel for the power to pull and accelerate into traffic. Great to have on those long grades that really make gas engines work. I like to be over powered and have a lot more weight capacity than the minimum needed. Best to get what you feel comfortable with for a tow vehicle, and if possible, try pulling your trailer with it before buying. Everybody here has their own opinions of what is the best tow vehicle, and I am sure that you will be swamped with the opinions. Best of luck finding what is best for you! Chris

[LiLNomad]

Hehe I could have used the 4x4 when I got stuck in the sand at Salton Sea.
LilNomad

[drmox]

I pull my 31 footer with a Ram 2500 diesel, and I appreciate the overkill every time I'm out on the road. I usually set the cruise on 70-ish, and it has yet to ever downshift due to hills or long grades. And I average 15-16 mpg while towing.
On the other, it rides just like a 3/4 ton truck when driving around town; just about as bumpy and unforgiving as you would think.
On the other other hand, it's real nice being able to load just about anything you can purchase at the Home Depot. A skid of stepping stones or 50 bags of mulch are all just handled in stride.

[RedBearded]

I think I have the selection of vehicle mostly made

I found a 2003 Suburban 2500 with the 8.1L gasser. It has 88k miles on it, and was previously maintained by a fire department for one of their fire chiefs. The color is a bit eye-popping, but I figure I'll make me easy to find

Link

If anyone has any reason why they think this won't work, now would be a good time to speak up, lol.

[slowmover]

It’s not the miles so much as the engine hours.

Divide those into total miles.

What’s under 27-mph as an average would cause me to pass on it.

IOW, 3,200-hours or less.

Idle time is contra-indicated.

Now, if the price is really low comparable to others, then it’s your gamble.

As to TT weight: you really think that 34 will ever weigh that much? I find that unlikely.

Even if it did there’s no legal basis to a private corporations recommendations.

Axle, tire and wheel weight limits are what have worked for more than a half century.

A 1,000-lb TW once the WD hitch is adjusted will leave about 350-lbs per axle of the TV. That’s the range of cars, SUVs and Vans. Most all of which are better road vehicles.

Again, what MUST go in the TV besides driver? Weigh it.

I’d choose a Chrysler 300 or its sister Dodge Charger to pull my trailer were the truck not still needed.

Your TV choice list should be more concerned with suspension and steering sophistication. Low center of gravity. An AS is superior to others not just for aerodynamic qualities, but these of road performance as well.

A solid axle pickup or similar with substantially degraded steering, braking and road-holding is a dead last choice. The TT will stay upright longer when it matters. The compromise has to be justified.

[RedBearded]

I will see if the engine hours are available when I check the vehicle out, I have seen that there can be issues with some of the GM products resetting that particular measurement at random intervals, so I'm not as confidant as I am with mileage.

The Chrysler 300 has a towing capacity of 1000 lb and has a 0 tow rating for the srt8 versions... and I don't see any cars on the market that will tow over 5k lb legally.

In going with a car, I would be very worried about the legality of towing should any accident occur. From my understanding I have to have a vehicle which is rated to handle a 10k load. The thing I know is that should there be an accident by overloading my tow vehicle I would almost immediately be at fault, and I can absolutely picture most any insurance denying coverage because I was towing over weight (ignorance is not a valid excuse for absolution in the eyes of the law)
I know airstreams are lighter, but I know of no car that will legally have a GCVWR to handle the trailer.
I do distinguish between ability to tow, and legal right to do so. I can tow a Boeing with a VW but that doesn't mean it's legal on public roads.
I don't want to endanger others by being outside the law, nor assume the responsibility for the outcome.
If there is some glaring thing I'm missing please let me know, I do tend to overlook the obvious sometimes.

Thanks for the input though

[slowmover]

Engine hours is a make or break proposition, IMO.

You’re ideas about legality couldn’t be more wrong. What you envision doesn’t exist.

Talking yourself into a higher risk vehicle which itself increases the likelihood of a loss of control accident, IS the path you’re choosing.

The car I’d favor needn’t be the one. A “tow rating”, etc has no meaning. Again, one used the vehicle axle limits as well as tire and wheel limits. This is how it’s done for DOT commercial vehicles.

The truck I own is similar to the ones I used in the oilfield. We exceeded every rating X2 and it was never a concern when law enforcement checked us over. And perfectly fine with the insurance carrier.

Why? Because staying within those tire, wheel and axle ratings are all that matter.

Recommend you find the can’t be found court case which frightens you so much. It doesn’t exist.

What does exist are those against drivers who failed to properly operate their vehicles. “Too fast for conditions”. You’ll find that using the vehicle type contemplated at above 50-mph covers that scenario.

“Weight” isn’t the problem. Pulling one of these TTs is about staying upright and in ones lane. Wind-handling.

Heavy TV means: can’t feel what’s happening until it’s too late.

And how on earth did we pull these trailers with cars less capable than the one I cited? For decades. Pickups are a recent thing.

You’ve not been diligent in educating yourself. Not if you wish to avoid problems.

[RedBearded]

first result from googling "towing heavier than rated legality"...
"Being Negligent:
When asked about towing liability issues, Dean Holleman, Vice President and Managing Attorney of Boyce Holleman & Associates in Gulfport, Mississippi, says, “Any person who tows a trailer would be responsible to know that the towing vehicle has certain limitations which should not be exceeded.
“If the accident is caused by the vehicle being used to tow something it was not designed to tow, this could be an act of negligence by the driver, and under the theory of negligence that person most probably would be held liable,” Dean says.
He also says that while some vehicle owners may argue the tow ratings and the proper setup of their vehicle isn’t clearly noted or easy to find, he feels “most vehicles do have proper warnings and posting of limitations of towing weight.”
When it comes to negligence or the failure of the driver’s “duty to tow only that which the vehicle is designed to tow,” Dean and other attorneys we spoke with about this issue agree: If there’s an accident and the towing vehicle isn’t properly configured for the trailered weight, the injured person or persons will probably win any ensuing lawsuit.
Business owners should also take heed of such towing issues, because just one accident could ruin a small company. “One of my main concerns is that the disregarding of vehicle manufacturers’ instructions and warnings related to towing could give an insurance company grounds for denying coverage, particularly in a commercial setting,” warns Gerry McGill, whose McGill Law Firm in Pensacola, Florida, has handled liability cases on behalf of both Ford Motor Company and General Motors."

I'm not saying you're wrong about the being overweight thing, you're not from what I can tell, but that doesn't make it a smart decision in my book. I guess I'm just too cautious when it comes to the courts and the turmoil that can ensue when blame is getting passed around. One thing I notice more than any other is that instead of it being just a criminal case of negligence, should someone die or be maimed while you are using a vehicle that was improper, it seems that the civil cases would be the ones that will break the piggy bank (expert witnesses get expensive really fast). I have seen just how fickle juries can be and it's not a pretty thing.

I guess for me I would rather just have the peace of mind that should the unfortunate happen and someone is injured, I did everything in my power to make sure that my rig was safe for all parties.

[drmox]

This thread is an interesting read, with some...interesting opinions being floated around.

My brother is a owner of a transmission shop, and he would smile, tell you to go ahead and tow a 9000# trailer with a modern sedan, and hand you his card.

[RedBearded]

I suppose we are all an opinionated bunch, lol.

I can totally picture the inside smile of the transmission shop owner,

I was also thinking about how modern cars are now made with unibody construction where older vehicles were made with body on frame which was much more akin to todays trucks. That may be a limitation on the ability of the chassis to handle and transmit the extra load of the trailer to the road.

[brick1]

Originally Posted by slowmover

Engine hours is a make or break proposition, IMO.

You’re ideas about legality couldn’t be more wrong. What you envision doesn’t exist.

Talking yourself into a higher risk vehicle which itself increases the likelihood of a loss of control accident, IS the path you’re choosing.

The car I’d favor needn’t be the one. A “tow rating”, etc has no meaning. Again, one used the vehicle axle limits as well as tire and wheel limits. This is how it’s done for DOT commercial vehicles.



The truck I own is similar to the ones I used in the oilfield. We exceeded every rating X2 and it was never a concern when law enforcement checked us over. And perfectly fine with the insurance carrier.

Why? Because staying within those tire, wheel and axle ratings are all that matter.

Recommend you find the can’t be found court case which frightens you so much. It doesn’t exist.

What does exist are those against drivers who failed to properly operate their vehicles. “Too fast for conditions”. You’ll find that using the vehicle type contemplated at above 50-mph covers that scenario.

“Weight” isn’t the problem. Pulling one of these TTs is about staying upright and in ones lane. Wind-handling.

Heavy TV means: can’t feel what’s happening until it’s too late.

And how on earth did we pull these trailers with cars less capable than the one I cited? For decades. Pickups are a recent thing.

You’ve not been diligent in educating yourself. Not if you wish to avoid problems.

Most new cars have negligible tow ratings. They tend to be front drive and unibody configuration, where-as older cars were rear wheel drive and body-on-frame. New vehicles are made lighter, for fuel savings, but do not make good tow vehicles. TV choices today tend to be SUV’s, trucks and vans.
brick

[slowmover]

The ignorance is profound.

BOF is weaker. Far weaker than unibody. Unit body Chrysler’s were much the preferred tow vehicles of the 1960s and 1970s.

I’ve seen the quote about the ambulance chaser before.

And will repeat about commercial use of vehicles: DOT and the insurance companies expect legal compliance. With far higher liability. That’s axle, tire and wheel.

Trans? Not a problem then or
now. Extra cooling is the thing.

You want “safety”. Choose the TV that won’t roll. That is as good as the trailer.

Had bad weather in the Texas region last few days. Last 2000-miles for me. What class of vehicle didn’t just slide off the road, but ALWAYS rolled over? I several dozen wrecked vehicles. Over a dozen pickups and pickup based vehicles totally destroyed. The rest were upright.

Trailer weight ain’t the problem. Never was. It’s fixed with proper hitch rigging on a suitable vehicle.

Have a ton of gear MUST be carried in TV? Why? Why do you have it, and why must it go in TV? You NEED clothing and food. The rest is unnecessary to camp.

The real problem is your solo miles. Lowest injury accident risk. That’s:

-4000-lbs
-120” wheelbase
-Fully independent suspension
-Low center of gravity

The rest isn’t too important.

But you increase the size, up the COG, or screw up the suspension, you’ve just increased serious injury potential. The curve of benefit goes flat past the above.

If any of you had ever used cars, you wouldn’t lightly change to something else. These trailers are easy to tow.

It’s all I used for over twenty years. The trucks since are for business. Today I’m closer to being free to go back to a car, and will at some point.

“Tow ratings”. They don’t test the majority of vehicles. Without meaning.

And the ones they do they use non-representative trailers. Without meaning.

Lots of old threads. If any of you quit lying that “this is important”.

OP, you want a crappy tow rig, it’s your money.

Steering, braking & handling matter. All else is second or third order.

At least go get a Hensley design hitch. Your apparent TV choice badly needs it. And it is superb for what it does. Others aren’t even comparable. On that the old designs aren’t better. But how tightly you fit the components, and upgrading to a Class V Reese will help.

Then fender measurements to rough in and onto the scale for the three pass method.

[Bruce B]

Originally Posted by slowmover

The ignorance is profound.

BOF is weaker. Far weaker than unibody. Unit body Chrysler’s were much the preferred tow vehicles of the 1960s and 1970s.

I’ve seen the quote about the ambulance chaser before.

And will repeat about commercial use of vehicles: DOT and the insurance companies expect legal compliance. With far higher liability. That’s axle, tire and wheel.

Trans? Not a problem then it now. Extra cooling is the thing.

You want “safety”. Choose the TV that won’t roll. That is as good as the trailer.

Had bad weather in the Texas region last few days. Last 2000-miles for me. What class of vehicle didn’t just slide off the road, but ALWAYS rolled over?

Trailer weight ain’t the problem. Never was. It’s fixed with proper hitch rigging on a suitable vehicle.

The problem is your solo miles. Lowest injury accident risk. That’s:

-4000-lbs
-120” wheelbase
-Fully independent suspension
-Low center of gravity

The rest isn’t too important.

But you increase the size, up the COG, or screw up the suspension, you’ve just increased serious injury potential. The curve of benefit goes flat past the above.

If any of you had ever used cars, you wouldn’t lightly change to something else.

It’s all I used for over twenty years. The trucks since are for business.

Today I’m free to go back to a car, and will at some point.

“Tow ratings”. They don’t test the majority of vehicles.

And the ones they do they use non-representative trailers.

Lots of old threads. If any of you quit lying that “this is important”.

OP, you want a crappy tow rig, it’s your money.

At least go get a Hensley design hitch. Your apparent TV choice badly needs it. And it is superb for what it does. Others aren’t even comparable.

Simply calling anyone who disagrees with you ‘ignorant’ doesn’t lend any special credibility to your arguments.
Frankly. It is a bit of a turnoff...
Maybe too many miles in the cab of the truck you once drive has simply made you intolerant of other people? That intolerance just makes you sound angry.

Bruce

[slowmover]

For you feelings matter more than fact. And fact can be ascertained by those whose emotions are kept in check. Try it.

Use any excuse you want to remain ignorant of what works versus what doesn’t.

And, yeah, truck driving is tiring. If you saw how badly you and all your AS peers “drive”, you’d take the whole thing seriously.

If you’d seen the difference between a well-chosen and well set up rig on the highway versus muh magic one ton dragging a 25 on the front axle, you might also find it exasperating.

Next to nothing more vulnerable to upset than a combination RV.

Let me know the next time you’re first on the scene to check for survivors.

[jwpaquette]

Interesting thread.

Slowmover - your attention to the details in your posts, writing skill and knowledge are impressive -a little spicy, but impressive. What’s your perfect TV setup if money were no object to tow a 30’ Classic, with a family of four with both required stuff for a two week road trip and then add in for good measure, the worst case of unnecessary extras you could imagine?