Jeep Grand Cherokee

[jonathansimo]

Hi All.

This is my first post here, but I've been reading the forums for quite a bit now learning a ton as I go.

My wife and I just bought a gently used 2015 25' Flying Cloud and are starting to look for a tow vehicle. For right now, we plan on renting F150s from Bay Area Airstream (which is a great thing that they do). We also have an Equalizer WD hitch installed.

The tow vehicle needs to be a daily driver for us and our two young kids. And as a daily driver, in and around Berkeley and San Francisco, a full size truck/SUV (i.e. an F150 or Expedition/Tahoe) is bigger than we would like to drive. So we're looking for something a bit smaller that can tow our Airstream. We also want to avoid doing anything aftermarket and not under manufacturer approval. (For example, I know folks are welding supports onto Porsches and Tuaregs to increase tongue weights and/or relocating tanks and batteries inside the coach, but I want to avoid going down that road).

With that, I test drove a diesel Jeep Grand Cherokee and really liked it but I'm concerned about whether it can actually tow my Airstream or not. I've read through a number of posts on tow vehicles here and can see it's a hotly debated topic. But I would like some help from people who have direct experience with this setup.

With that, I would love to hear from anyone who is/has towed a 25' Flying Cloud or similar with a Grand Cherokee (diesel or gas) and hear some real world feedback about how the rig works. I know folks are towing 19' FCs and some vintage Airstreams with this setup, but I really want to know if I'm nuts to try and run a 25' behind a Grand Cherokee. I want to be decidedly safe and cautious, but trying to balance owning something I actually would like to drive/gas milage/size when not towing.

Here are the details.

Trailer Details:
25' Flying Cloud Rear Twin
Trailer Unit Base Weight: 5600#
Trailer Gross Vehicle Weight: 7300#
Trailer Hitch Weight: 835#

Tow Vehicle Details:
Jeep Grand Cherokee, Diesel, Class IV tow package
Max Towing (4x2): 7400#
Max Tongue Weight: 1200#
Max Payload 1090#

Alternatively, if anyone has any suggestions of other vehicles to check out, that would be great as well.

Thanks for all the info on this and other posts. Super helpful to someone getting started!

[wkerfoot]

With two children, you might consider the Dodge Durango. Same basic vehicle, however no diesel. Longer wheelbase and three rows of seats.

Bill

[jonathansimo]

Thanks wkerfoot.

Looks like there is a 5" difference in wheelbase between the Grand Cherokee and the Durango. Will that make a significant difference?

I test drove a Durango, and while I like the extra space, the Durango spec'ed with a V8 and features gets up to 45-50k really quick. Just didn't feel worth it to me compared to the Jeep.

[andreasduess]

There is a forum member, Jim Flower, who has been towing with Jeeps for a very long time and hundreds of thousands of miles, he recommends them highly. Here's a link to his profile. He's worth talking to, for real world experience. Nice guy too, just send him a private message.

Our own Airstream is a 1984 34' International, one of the old triple axles. Our ready to camp weight is around 7500lbs, including a full tank of water. I would have zero issues towing that trailer with a Jeep GC, which was on our own list of potential tow vehicles. Like yourself, we live in an urban centre, where a huge vehicle makes no sense.

In the end, we bought a Durango R/T with the hemi engine, tow package and pretty much any available upgrade - we have three kids, so needed the extra space. I bought the car out of a lease. It's 18 months old, at $20k less than the original buyer paid, with just over 30k miles on the clock. If you're not set on new, there are deals out there.

I would have loved the Jeep with the Diesel engine, but we need the space the longer Dodge offers. Both vehicles are built on the same platform, which they also share with the Mercedes GL series, with fully independent suspension and a modern drivetrain. The 8 gear transmission Dodge started using in 2014 is the same as used by Bentley and Audi for their most high end vehicles. All of these vehicles tend to be highly rated by their owners as far as towing platforms go.

Just as an aside, don't be worried about aftermarket modifications. There's nothing wrong with adding a transmission cooler, or welding a strut on a hitch. In fact, it is often the necessary and sensible thing to do, adding nothing more than what a manufacturer adds and calls a tow package. We towed our trailer with a Honda van for three years, modified for towing. It made for an excellent, stable and comfortable tow vehicle for us.

[moosetags]

First off, welcome to the Forums. We're glad to have you with us.

Good luck with your tow vehicle search. Choose carefully, as selection of an insufficient tow vehicle can result in your new Airstream becoming a very expensive piece of yard art. If you are not comfortable with your towing situation, you will avoid going camping.

Brian

[RLS]

Welcome to the forum, there is a great amount of knowledge here to tap into. We have an Infiniti QX56 that was purchased for towing. The SUV is great, but after towing for many miles and yrs., I am now looking at replacing it with a pick up truck! Something I thought I would never own. We only have the one vehicle for all our needs, so that was why the SUV. Now my thinking is how much more we would enjoy camping being able to load more STUFF for the trip. The main draw back to the SUV is how much payload you have. Remember, that tongue weight takes up whole bunch of it! When you get done loading up the trailer, you will be around 1,000 lbs. tongue weight or more! My choice so far would be the GMC 1500 Sierra double cab with the 6.2 motor and heavy duty tow package. That gives you max. payload of 2,080 lbs. At 230" total length, it will still fit in the garage!
Also, IMHO make sure whatever you get that it has 4 wheel drive.

[dkottum]

Consider both Grand Cherokee and Durango Hemi engine which have nearly the same full independent suspension which makes the vehicle very stable. The diesel engine GC develops it's high torque at low rpm, and the Durango reaches it's power range at higher RPM. This only really matters climbing hills but either will do the job. Both have the same eight speed transmission, great gear selection for towing.

We have the Hemi 5.7 engine in our Ram pickup, powerful, very smooth, and relatively economical. Plenty of power for our 25' FC except perhaps the steepest grades where we reduce speed and shift the transmission down to get in higher power range, just as it is designed to do. The diesel uses less fuel but the gas Hemi costs less to buy and service, so in reality those expenses will balance out over time.

The advantage of the Durango is more interior space and longer wheelbase (a little better sway resistance). The advantage is the GC is the available diesel, giving more power at low RPM. Both vehicles have payloads similar to many half-ton trucks and require thoughtful loading and a capable weight distribution hitch to distribute some of the hitch weight to the truck's front axle and both trailer axles.

[remphoto]

Back in the day, we towed a 30' SOB with a 1995 Grand Cherokee and factory tow package. We went all up and down the East Coast and never had any problems with sway (were using a Reese WD with a built in sway system). It had the pre-hemi 318 V8 and got 10 mpg (compared to 8 or our previous full-sized van tow vehicle). Lot's of power and a really nice vehicle to drive when not towing. I can only imagine that the newer, slightly larger GC's would be even better towers and likely would get better mileage with the modern 8 speed transmissions and direct fuel injection.

[JamuJoe]

You might recheck your data for the Grand Cherokee tongue weight capacity. It should be 740 lbs for the 2x4 and 720 lbs for the 4x4. I tow our 2011 FC23FB with a 2014 CC Overland 4x4 EcoDiesel and love the handling and performance. My actual tongue weight is 785 lbs in camping trim. That's a bit heavy, but it handles very well with a 10K Equalizer. 17.6 mpg average towing. I know that others tow larger Airstreams with this vehicle, but the 23 is at my comfort level. We deliberately chose our Airstream to fit our 08 GC diesel, and the 2014 GC diesel with higher torque, 8 sp automatic and longer wheelbase brought us a substantial improvement in performance and economy. It's a pleasure to tow.

[jonathansimo]

Thanks everyone for the feedback and warm welcome. Very helpful stuff!

Here is roughly what I'm getting from everyone so far:

No, I'm not crazy to tow a 25' flying cloud with either a GC or a Durango. Obviously, a F250 with a diesel engine would be a way better tow vehicle, but not the best daily driver for me There are some plusses/minuses to the Durango (more cargo space, longer wheelbase) while the GC has available diesel and is a little more compact. But both would be OK compromises it seems.

As for the tongue weight, the GC and Durango have an available class IV tow package which ups the max tongue weight to 1200#.

Next question is the 4x2 vs 4x4 option. The 4x4 brings the towing weight down to 7200 from 7400 (due to the weight of the differential I'm told). Given this, would you guys recommend going the 4x2 or 4x4 route?

[dkottum]

I like the 4x4 because in extensive travel we have needed it a few times to get out of campsites that drop to the back, and very slippery grass or mud. For your info, virtually no pickups or SUV's of this type are on the dealer lots without 4x4 in our part of the country. It would be hard to sell without it.

Loading and weight. Know that you should keep your camping equipment weight very low in the SUV when towing with this type of vehicle, especially behind the rear axel. (Same with our 1/2 ton pickup.) The Airstream comes well equipped for camping, don't carry more gear than needed, especially in front.

Keeping your hitch weight low (but at least 10% of loaded trailer weight) will make it easier on your hitch connection and allow effective weight distribution by your w.d. hitch, as well as not overloading your SUV.

If unable to travel light, the alternative is a heavier duty tow vehicle.

[A W Warn]

Originally Posted by jonathansimo

snip>>Here are the details.

Trailer Details:
25' Flying Cloud Rear Twin
Trailer Unit Base Weight: 5600#
Trailer Gross Vehicle Weight: 7300#
Trailer Hitch Weight: 835#

Tow Vehicle Details:
Jeep Grand Cherokee, Diesel, Class IV tow package
Max Towing (4x2): 7400#
Max Tongue Weight: 1200#
Max Payload 1090#
<<<snip

My concern with this vehicle combination would be payload of the Tow Vehicle.
As an example:
~180 lb - dad
~120 lb - mom
~100 lb - 2 children
~400 lb - total weight of occupants

1090 lb - max payload
-400 lb - total weight of occupants
-835 lb - tongue weight (empty)
-100 lb - weight of hitch and sway control
-245 lb = OVERLOADED before adding any cargo to the trailer or tow vehicle

[RLS]

Payload is exactly what I was trying to express. It is a killer on SUVs. Alan, you did forget to take roughly 1/3 off of the tongue weight to transfer back to the trailer axles, but still there is very little wiggle room for payload.

[JamuJoe]

A couple of additional thoughts: If you don't need 4 wheel drive, the Durango might be a better choice than the Grand Cherokee, in terms of cargo space and longer wheelbase. However, one critical dimension that gives the Grand Cherokee an advantage is the shorter rear overhang (distance from rear axle to receiver). Shorter is better, even if only inches, for sway prevention. Then again, in my experience, our dual axle Airstream does not require much sway control. I need 4 wheel drive both for our everyday driving (home is at 7600' in the mountains near Durango CO - lots of snow!) as well as our frequent Airstreaming well off the paved roads.

Safe Travels,
JamuJoe

[JamuJoe]

"As for the tongue weight, the GC and Durango have an available class IV tow package which ups the max tongue weight to 1200#."

Really? I don't see that tongue capacity on the Jeep website. Not challenging you, just curious as to that data. 480 lbs is a huge tongue capacity increase for a GC with the same suspension, whatever the hitch may be. If true, you've lost a big portion of the rated payload.

Safe Travels,
Joe

[A W Warn]

Originally Posted by RLS

Payload is exactly what I was trying to express. It is a killer on SUVs. Alan, you did forget to take roughly 1/3 off of the tongue weight to transfer back to the trailer axles, but still there is very little wiggle room for payload.

I do not think it is proper to use the transferred loads when calculating payload.
Payload is what it is, regardless of any weight transfer created by leverage.

[Tincandad]

We opted for the Durango. I really wanted the Grand Cherokee with the diesel, especially as I have had two non diesel GCs in the past, but there was much more space inside the Durango and as a daily driver it was better for us to accommodate our kid and the usual trips with friends/teammates. When extended family visits it's nice to have the extra seating. But on trips, having room a dry and protected space for the dog and the gear is great. We tow a vintage 24' but single axle so it's not comparable to a newer 25' trailer but we have had no sway issues or loading issues. That's compared with the Jeep Liberty that was our previous tow vehicle which had the load capacity but a very borderline wheelbase. Yes a new well-optioned V-8 Durango or JGC is going to get into the $40ks but the JGC diesel if even more. We got a prior model year Durango that spend a fair amount of time on the dealers lot so it was about as discounted as we could hope for. As a daily driver it is no sedan but it's comfortable and functional and is almost never a bear to park in urban environments like downtown Boston. As a tow vehicle it's been reliable and gives me confidence when towing. That all said I don't have recent experience towing with the new Grand Cherokees but we love our Durango.

[A W Warn]

Originally Posted by JamuJoe

"As for the tongue weight, the GC and Durango have an available class IV tow package which ups the max tongue weight to 1200#."

Really? I don't see that tongue capacity on the Jeep website. Not challenging you, just curious as to that data. 480 lbs is a huge tongue capacity increase for a GC with the same suspension, whatever the hitch may be. If true, you've lost a big portion of the rated payload.

Safe Travels,
Joe

I think people confuse the ability of the tow vehicle components. The vehicles shown by the OP shows a 1200 hitch rating, but 1090 payload. I think (not sure) the 1200 lbs is the design rating for maximum load on the hitch. Even though the hitch is designed to carry this weight, I do not think the manufacturer intends to say anyone should exceed the stated payload capacity of the tow vehicle.

[Jim Flower]

Photo near Walterboro from last week heading south. The front Jeep is a 2014 Diesel. It now has 106,000 k. The Airstream about the same. I have had 1 issue (cat converter) with the Jeep and it was repaired under warranty. Other than the repair, the Jeep has been flawless.

[jonathansimo]

Thanks again everyone. Honestly, the whole payload / tongue weight / trailer tow rating / etc is all pretty difficult to get a handle on.

Meanwhile, here is where I was getting the info re 1200# tongue weight:

Towing Capacity and Payload of Jeep Vehicles

Here's a snippet:

"While it's not listed in the charts, tongue weight [i] is also an important consideration. The recommended tongue weight is between 10 & 15% of the trailer weight. However, the maximum tongue weight on Class III (The bumper ball) is limited to 500 lbs, and Class IV (The receiver hitch) to 1200 lbs. This requirement overrides any recommended GTW rating, between 10% and 15% of gross trailer weight (GTW). Additionally, the GAWRs and GVWRs should never be exceeded."

If I'm understanding the math in previous posts correctly, towing with the 1200# Jeep says is OK here is above the vehicle payload! This is why I'm confused.