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Old 12-30-2015, 03:55 PM   #15
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"As for the tongue weight, the GC and Durango have an available class IV tow package which ups the max tongue weight to 1200#."

Really? I don't see that tongue capacity on the Jeep website. Not challenging you, just curious as to that data. 480 lbs is a huge tongue capacity increase for a GC with the same suspension, whatever the hitch may be. If true, you've lost a big portion of the rated payload.

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Old 12-30-2015, 03:58 PM   #16
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Originally Posted by RLS View Post
Payload is exactly what I was trying to express. It is a killer on SUVs. Alan, you did forget to take roughly 1/3 off of the tongue weight to transfer back to the trailer axles, but still there is very little wiggle room for payload.
I do not think it is proper to use the transferred loads when calculating payload.
Payload is what it is, regardless of any weight transfer created by leverage.
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Old 12-30-2015, 04:06 PM   #17
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Durango versus GC

We opted for the Durango. I really wanted the Grand Cherokee with the diesel, especially as I have had two non diesel GCs in the past, but there was much more space inside the Durango and as a daily driver it was better for us to accommodate our kid and the usual trips with friends/teammates. When extended family visits it's nice to have the extra seating. But on trips, having room a dry and protected space for the dog and the gear is great. We tow a vintage 24' but single axle so it's not comparable to a newer 25' trailer but we have had no sway issues or loading issues. That's compared with the Jeep Liberty that was our previous tow vehicle which had the load capacity but a very borderline wheelbase. Yes a new well-optioned V-8 Durango or JGC is going to get into the $40ks but the JGC diesel if even more. We got a prior model year Durango that spend a fair amount of time on the dealers lot so it was about as discounted as we could hope for. As a daily driver it is no sedan but it's comfortable and functional and is almost never a bear to park in urban environments like downtown Boston. As a tow vehicle it's been reliable and gives me confidence when towing. That all said I don't have recent experience towing with the new Grand Cherokees but we love our Durango.
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Old 12-30-2015, 04:10 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JamuJoe View Post
"As for the tongue weight, the GC and Durango have an available class IV tow package which ups the max tongue weight to 1200#."

Really? I don't see that tongue capacity on the Jeep website. Not challenging you, just curious as to that data. 480 lbs is a huge tongue capacity increase for a GC with the same suspension, whatever the hitch may be. If true, you've lost a big portion of the rated payload.

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I think people confuse the ability of the tow vehicle components. The vehicles shown by the OP shows a 1200 hitch rating, but 1090 payload. I think (not sure) the 1200 lbs is the design rating for maximum load on the hitch. Even though the hitch is designed to carry this weight, I do not think the manufacturer intends to say anyone should exceed the stated payload capacity of the tow vehicle.
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Old 12-30-2015, 04:16 PM   #19
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Photo near Walterboro from last week heading south. The front Jeep is a 2014 Diesel. It now has 106,000 k. The Airstream about the same. I have had 1 issue (cat converter) with the Jeep and it was repaired under warranty. Other than the repair, the Jeep has been flawless. Click image for larger version

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Old 12-30-2015, 04:19 PM   #20
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Thanks again everyone. Honestly, the whole payload / tongue weight / trailer tow rating / etc is all pretty difficult to get a handle on.

Meanwhile, here is where I was getting the info re 1200# tongue weight:

Towing Capacity and Payload of Jeep Vehicles

Here's a snippet:

"While it's not listed in the charts, tongue weight [i] is also an important consideration. The recommended tongue weight is between 10 & 15% of the trailer weight. However, the maximum tongue weight on Class III (The bumper ball) is limited to 500 lbs, and Class IV (The receiver hitch) to 1200 lbs. This requirement overrides any recommended GTW rating, between 10% and 15% of gross trailer weight (GTW). Additionally, the GAWRs and GVWRs should never be exceeded."

If I'm understanding the math in previous posts correctly, towing with the 1200# Jeep says is OK here is above the vehicle payload! This is why I'm confused.
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Old 12-30-2015, 06:25 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Flower View Post
Attachment 254852
Photo near Walterboro from last week heading south. The front Jeep is a 2014 Diesel. It now has 106,000 k. The Airstream about the same. I have had 1 issue (cat converter) with the Jeep and it was repaired under warranty. Other than the repair, the Jeep has been flawless.
I really like your setup!
Have you weighed, and will you share the results?
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Old 12-30-2015, 06:31 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jonathansimo View Post
Thanks again everyone. Honestly, the whole payload / tongue weight / trailer tow rating / etc is all pretty difficult to get a handle on.

Meanwhile, here is where I was getting the info re 1200# tongue weight:

Towing Capacity and Payload of Jeep Vehicles

Here's a snippet:

"While it's not listed in the charts, tongue weight [i] is also an important consideration. The recommended tongue weight is between 10 & 15% of the trailer weight. However, the maximum tongue weight on Class III (The bumper ball) is limited to 500 lbs, and Class IV (The receiver hitch) to 1200 lbs. This requirement overrides any recommended GTW rating, between 10% and 15% of gross trailer weight (GTW). Additionally, the GAWRs and GVWRs should never be exceeded."

If I'm understanding the math in previous posts correctly, towing with the 1200# Jeep says is OK here is above the vehicle payload! This is why I'm confused.
I think if you add the actual weight of the vehicle and the payload capacity, the sum of those two numbers will equal GVWR. If more weight than the stated payload is added, whether cargo or tongue weight, then the GVWR is exceed.
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Old 12-30-2015, 06:43 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by A W Warn View Post
I do not think it is proper to use the transferred loads when calculating payload.
Payload is what it is, regardless of any weight transfer created by leverage.
I based that on this:RV.Net Open Roads Forum: Towing: Payload Capacity and Tongue Weight

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Old 12-30-2015, 07:14 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by A W Warn View Post
I do not think it is proper to use the transferred loads when calculating payload.
Payload is what it is, regardless of any weight transfer created by leverage.
Quote:
Originally Posted by RLS View Post
I wonder what tow vehicle manufacturers say?
I've read several conflicting opinions in different forums (my statement above was my opinion).
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Old 12-30-2015, 07:43 PM   #25
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The bottom photo in my previous post was taken last year in Terrace Bay on my way back from Alberta. The following photo shows part of my Jeep fleet. The 2008 Jeep diesel is now my son's daily driver. It has just about 400,000k on it and it towed both my 25 ft Safari and the 30 ft Signature. The 2008 Jeep diesel towing the Globe Trotter in the previous photo is also part of the family fleet. I maintain the vehicles meticulously. None of them have ever suffered a towing related mechanical failure. I have had 5 earlier Jeeps. 3 were retired at 500,000 k. One is still in the family with only 200,000 k and the other was stolen.
A diesel or hemi Jeep is an excellent tow vehicle and daily driver. JimClick image for larger version

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Old 12-30-2015, 07:46 PM   #26
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OK - So I wasn't aware of subtracting the tongue weight from the payload (although that does make a lot of sense). In that case, there is a significant difference between the GC and the Durango in that the Durango can have payloads of up to 1420#. So it's still tight, but less tight than the GC.

In the case of the Durango then, with the 67% WD hitch calculation, I'm looking roughly at this:

1420 lb - max payload
-400 lb - total weight of occupants
-670 (1000 * .67 lb) - tongue weight (loaded at 2/3)
-100 lb - weight of hitch and sway control
---------
1170 with nothing in the car.

Based on the math, it seems like this is really tight (with strollers and whatnot in the car), yet potentially doable. What do you all think?
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Old 12-30-2015, 08:23 PM   #27
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It's the nature of tow vehicle discussions to tell folks why they can't tow with a vehicle (the simple answer), while very few can tell you how you can. It's been covered, weight distribution, adjusted loads, and the difference between actual vehicle weight and GVWR being the reasonable load the vehicle is designed to carry.

It has become "old hat" in the forum for members to relocate items such as batteries and move equipment in the trailer to achieve a lighter and ideal hitch weight for their particular towing combo.

The effect of quality weight distribution hitches that not only restore front axle loads, but also transfer hitch weight to the Airstream's axles must be considered, as well as represented in the math, but often isn't in these discussions.

Dig a little deeper in the forum, and talk to some towing experts. Forum member and Airstream dealership owner Andrew T. at Can-Am Airstream in Ontario, Canada is a great resource for your set up. They have successfully set up thousands of RV's similar to yours, and many of them are forum members.
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Old 12-30-2015, 08:26 PM   #28
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Now you are starting to understand I myself would not tow without 4 wheel drive. Have been in several spots where I was not going forward or backing into without engaging 4 wheel drive. It could be trying to back into a spot that is down or up hill, or being on wet grass. An SUV is nice, but you are limited by payload. Do you want to go where there is no hook ups? If so you will need a generator or 2. More weight. How about bicycles? more weight. Pets? The list goes on.
When we got our SUV, I thought it was all I needed. I know you said you do not want a pickup, but If I had to to it again, a pickup would be something I would look at. Put a topper on it and load what you want.
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