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Old 06-01-2013, 05:24 PM   #43
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After reading all the info on this forum and others I decided to go with the Ford F150 Echo Boost. Side by side the F150 is twice the tow vehicle. Having said that I will truly miss my Taco. Great truck and would work fine for something less then a Flying Cloud 25.
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Old 06-01-2013, 05:38 PM   #44
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Originally Posted by Road Ruler View Post
In a previous post Andrew T wrote that on average he test drives 6 or 7 different combinations every week. Note he has been in business for over 40 years. That adds up to a heck of a lot of experience and I know of no one on this planet that has that level of towing/TV expertise.

What vehicle is "right" and what vehicle is "wrong" has always been the million dollar question. From personal experience I have always found Andrew T's information right on.
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Originally Posted by SteveH View Post
And, I know of no one else on this planet who so blatantly disregards manufacturer's weight and towing ratings.

Glad he's in Canada and his setup rigs are so far away from me for safety's sake.
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Originally Posted by Road Ruler View Post
LOL, In the past 45 years I have driven over 1,000,000 miles on Canadian highways. From the east coast to the west coast many times. I have yet to see an RV involved in a accident. Come to Canada. It is much safer than you think.
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What? You don't want to address the "blatantly disregards manufacturer's weight and towing ratings" issue?

I didn't think so.
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Originally Posted by DKB_SATX View Post
Point me to the quote where Andrew T said that you can tow a 34' Airstream with a '71 VW Beetle, and I'll believe you're not full of it. It's one thing to say everyone needs a turbodiesel pickup to tow an Airstream, which is opinion. It's another to lie about what a helpful professional has said. Frankly I think your statement goes beyond hyperbole and borders on an abusive lie.
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Whatever, dude. It's one thing to tow a 10,000# trailer with a vehicle rated to tow 10,000#. It's another thing to tow a 10,000# trailer with a vehicle rated to tow 3,500# and claim it performs better. That doesn't border on a lie. It is a lie. I know plenty of people tow with a Ford Edge or a Nissan Quest, but I don't have to. I even heard of a guy who pulls with a Chevy Astro. That would come closer- body on frame, 4.3 V-6- but I'm glad I ain't him. Like I said earlier- rather than get the wrong vehicle and alter it, why not just get the right vehicle in the first place? I have a 1999 Nissan Pathfinder. That don't mean I am gonna tow with it! I just mentioned a 1971 VW because that is the least likely to tow anything daily driver I have. On the other hand I don't think it is necessary to have a diesel 2500 to pull a Bambi. I might pull a Bambi with my Nissan Pathfinder, but not a Classic 30. I on't always tow a trailer, but when I do, I prefer a Tundra! We will get a Honda Odyssey next, but I ain't gonna pull the 'Stream with it!
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Another point- unless you have actually road tested all vehicle/trailer combinations how can you say one way or the other. If a "professional" advises me to tow a 10,000# trailer with a vehicle rated to tow 3,500# I just ain't buying' it. Tow capacity caused me to buy a pickup instead of a sedan or crossover.
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I'll go toe to toe with any diesel pickup or any Andy T. rig with my Tundra and the heaviest Airstream there is. I have done many miles of towing with a Duramax- great machine, but not necessary to git-r-dun. I have also towed many miles with my Tundra and a big ole white box SOB trailer.
===============================================

Go ahead gang poke away at each other, the OP bailed out last year. teehee

Bob
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Old 06-02-2013, 09:07 AM   #45
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And, I know of no one else on this planet who so blatantly disregards manufacturer's weight and towing ratings.

Glad he's in Canada and his setup rigs are so far away from me for safety's sake.
So long as one falls for "weight ratings" by manufacturers and a captive group of engineers (SAE) as being the center of "towing safety" one will likely never experience what thousands (maybe tens of thousands) of us pulling this trailer type knew with the cars of the 1960's and '70's: superior handling and braking. Better accident avoidance as well as acceptable towing performance up and down hills or from a stop.

Of course, so long as one wants to carry 2,000-lbs of firewood, etc, in the TV then one is stuck with the compromised vehicle . . a truck. And a vehicle that winds up costing $1.40/mile to own/operate versus one that may cost but 60-cents. That not only fits the majority of solo miles better, but is also better at towing this trailer type.

Weight and tow "ratings" are subject to all sorts of exceptions in the way they are formulated. Read on some of the discussions of SAE J2807 here and elsewhere. Orwellian truth is a gloss over details that matter. And which would change "official pronouncements" to something else again. A partial truth is the center of the best lies.

OTOH, are those of us who use (have used) 1T trucks to pull commercial loads -- up to 32,000-lbs GCW -- not exempt from said weight ratings 10,000-lbs or more lower? 300k mile service life -- 24/7/365 -- used that way. Guess we should all be dead, huh?

The accident statistics which accompany pickup trucks are not a matter of skill in problem avoidance. They are built-in deficiencies from which none are exempt.

Trailer weight is not a problem. And spreading the TW is not either, not for a whole host of potential TVs. But profit, not towing ability, is what accounts for a handful of vehicles tested and "rated" versus the whole line of vehicles sold.

Pulling this trailer type is not much of a challenge. Frontal area and wind-handling make moot the idea of TV weight being central to horsing a trailer around that won't need it. As well as low COG and fully independent suspension which substantially pare down road hazards.

For those who equate isolation with best performance, have at them trucks. For those for whom both safety and overall economy rate more highly, then alternatives thankfully exist.


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Old 06-02-2013, 09:22 AM   #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by slowmover View Post
So long as you fall for "weight ratings" by manufacturers and a captive group of engineers (SAE) as being the center of "towing safety" you'll likely never experience what thousands (maybe tens of thousands) of us pulling this trailer type knew with the cars of the 1960's and '70's: superior handling and braking. .
Oh, let me up! I drove the cars of the '60's and '70's, pulled some trailers with them too, and compared to even the light trucks of today, they drove and handled like soft suspensioned tanks.
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Old 06-02-2013, 09:32 AM   #47
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Is it OK to tow the space shuttle with a Toyota?
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Old 06-02-2013, 09:41 AM   #48
CLOUDSPLITTER "Tahawas"
 
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Oh, the compromise's we endure...

"Of course, so long as one wants to carry 2,000-lbs of firewood, etc, in the TV then one is stuck with the compromised vehicle . . a truck."

I LOVE my compromised tow vehicle...and I'm sure you love yours also.

Bob
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Old 06-02-2013, 02:36 PM   #49
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I'd like to have a small sports car like the ones I had 40 and 50 years ago that can tow my trailer. Of course, with a bad back and bad knees, would have trouble getting in and would have to be craned out. They were fun to drive and much better at accident avoidance, although when hit by a sedan, you came out all messed up.

Like trucks and Americans, trailers have gotten obese. I wonder if the trucks of 2018 will have the power to tow my Safari. I expect with either/and turbos, 10 speed transmissions, more weight reduction in the trucks and more sophisticated computers they might work. Gas mileage rules will make a difference, but I believe they don't apply to vehicles over 8,000 lbs. That could mean manufacturers abandon 1/2 ton trucks as work and tow vehicles because they can sell 3/4 and 1 ton ones to us.

A parallel change is that SUV's are changing from rugged off road designs to automatic transmissions, unibodies, sedan comfort and passenger car tires—we are returning to station wagons, but with 4WD or all wheel drive. The Pathfinder is now a glorified minivan and Toyota is gentrifying the 4Runner. If you want the off road version, you have to buy a FJ Cruiser—it comes with a stick, looks utilitarian and has terrible visibility from the driver's seat. It much more like the older 4Runners in concept. The move to crossover SUV's will likely happen with trucks too and we may have to buy 3/4 ton behemoths to tow trailers (or trade for a 1970 trailer).

Long ago, I drove many ecoboxes, sports cars and other small vehicles. Getting in and out was not a problem. Now I need a big vehicles to enter and exit. It is nice to see the road past the Camry in front of me. I can get building materials in my truck for my serial remodeling disease. The truck does handle much better than earlier trucks I have had. It is a lot safer than older trucks. On the other hand, it sucks gas too much and can be hard to park. I don't entirely mind the gentrification—now my aging body demands more comfort.

I don't know what's ahead—I think the 1/2 ton trucks can be made much more fuel efficient, but the manufacturers may gentrify those trucks even more and leave the really big trucks for towing and for contractors. That would reduce their fleet of 1/2 ton trucks and improve their overall fuel averages while they sell us more expensive 8,000 lb. trucks.

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Old 06-02-2013, 04:30 PM   #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ROBERT CROSS View Post
"Of course, so long as one wants to carry 2,000-lbs of firewood, etc, in the TV then one is stuck with the compromised vehicle . . a truck."

I LOVE my compromised tow vehicle...and I'm sure you love yours also.

Bob
I resemble that remark. My Tundra is completely full of firewood. I need a tonneau cover because when it rains the wood soaks up a lot of water. It is so heavy. The only way to get rid of the wood is to build a bunch of camp fires...
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Old 06-02-2013, 05:03 PM   #51
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===============================================

Go ahead gang poke away at each other, the OP bailed out last year. teehee

Bob
He's probably out towing his Airstream around the country with his Tacoma, enjoying himself, rather than arguing on an internut forum......
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