interesting comments from U-Haul

[aftermath]

Originally Posted by rmkrum

By actual experiments on the exact same route, same trailer and truck loading, and similar wind conditions the difference between a Husky brand WD hitch and a ProPride setup was as follows:

Husky: trailer started sway event at 55 MPH and required slowing to 45 MPH on the downhill run to keep it from occurring.

ProPride: No sway whatsoever at trailer speed limit 55 MPH downhill all segments of the run. In addition, a run across Texas with the ProPride showed absolutely no indication of sway at speeds up to 80 MPH, whilst being passed by big rigs, and in heavy crosswinds.

I don’t need someone telling me towing on the ball is safer, but thanks for the free opinion. It’s worth what we paid for it.

My engineering experience says pivot point projection works. Any sway control system will help under the right circumstances, but others try to resist sway, not mechanically flat out stop it.

In my experience over a rather long career at Boeing and other engineering outfits, I’ve found that Ignorance can be cured if the individual is willing to do some research and learning. Stupidity is apparently a permanent condition. Also, ignorance suitably prolonged is indistinguishable from stupidity.

Brother! So you like your HA when compared to the Husky with no sway control built in? Quite the engineer.


OK, if I am not mistaken, the last U-Haul trailer I used said that the max speed was 55mph. I always wondered what they would say if someone had an accident while towing at 65?

[Martee]

Originally Posted by out of sight

Some people seem to be missing the point of U-Haul's policy. The most important feature of your tow vehicle is its weight in comparison to the weight of the trailer it's towing. If you have a big enough tow vehicle you will not need a w/d or sway control hitch. Indeed, these hitches are nothing more than band-aid solutions for towing with an undersized tow vehicle.

I have seen more than a few trailers in West Texas and the Panhandle crosswinds, being towed by an F350 or a Ram 2500, that have flipped over while swaying in the wind. The tow vehicle stays upright, while the trailer ends up nearly crushed during the rollover.

Last year while driving to Carlsbad, I came upon the scene about 5mins after it happened, and rendered aid to a family for a rolled trailer, and also called Police. The families personal property had scattered all over the median. Their F350 was slammed completely around and facing the oncoming traffic. I looked carefully at his hitch type, and the 27' Jayco trailer was on the ball prior to the catastrophic sway event.

It seems to me, the F350 is a fairly large enough and heavy duty tow vehicle. And according to your belief, that should not happen with a large TV. But it did happen! All it takes is a significant sway event while towing on the ball..... And it will ruin your day.

[QC TORPEDO]

Sorry for this comment, up front:
1. U-Haul will place the blame for any problem on the renter; improper loading, over-load, speeding, its all in the agreement.
2. The U-Haul equipment is often deficient. Bad tires, bad lights, poor lubrication, rust, wear.
No one I know will rent a motorized vehicle from U-Haul. No one I know wants to follow a U-Haul truck or trailer on the highway. So affirmations of U-Haul engineering ring hollow.

[rmkrum]

Originally Posted by aftermath

Brother! So you like your HA when compared to the Husky with no sway control built in? Quite the engineer.


OK, if I am not mistaken, the last U-Haul trailer I used said that the max speed was 55mph. I always wondered what they would say if someone had an accident while towing at 65?

Yup. Straight from nothing to overkill. When it comes to having family and all our dogs in the tow vehicle, I’m going for safety and my research on trailer sway took me to ProPride or Hensley as the possible choices. ProPride is built heavier, and did not require drilling holes.

[Profxd]

The ”Hitch Police” step in to save the day!

[smithcreek]

Originally Posted by Profxd

The ”Hitch Police” step in to save the day!

The "Weight Distribution Hitch Cartel Conspiracy Nuts" step in to give everyone a laugh!

Just to be clear on the point of this thread;
- U-haul doesn't have scales at rental locations
- U-haul doesn't want to spend hours properly setting up every WD hitch (if the customers vehicle is even able to use one)
- U-haul doesn't was to spend another few hours teaching customers how to use them after loading the trailer
- U-haul has no way to check if the customer is using the WD hitch correctly after they load it
- Most U-haul employees would not even know how to use a WD hitch, much less teach someone else

So, to make is simple for their employees and the lawyers at U-haul they just have a list of which vehicles are allowed to tow which trailers and that's it. The guy behind the counter doesn't have to know a thing about towing, just check the list and ask you if you want supplementary insurance. Yet, somehow all of this is proof that WD hitches don't work? Got it.

[out of sight]

Originally Posted by Profxd

The ”Hitch Police” step in to save the day!

Yes. They certainly do come out of the woodwork when you mention towing on the ball.

You know, you don't learn much about hitches on this forum, but you learn a lot about hitch people.

[SteveSueMac]

Is everyone done insulting those you disagree with?

Please read the rules. Play nice. Or at least follow the Bambi principle.

“What’s so funny ‘bout peace love and understanding?”

[Dan and Liz]

Originally Posted by out of sight

Some people seem to be missing the point of U-Haul's policy. The most important feature of your tow vehicle is its weight in comparison to the weight of the trailer it's towing. If you have a big enough tow vehicle you will not need a w/d or sway control hitch. Indeed, these hitches are nothing more than band-aid solutions for towing with an undersized tow vehicle.

iIf you have a big enough tow vehicle — you don’t even need a trailer!

[out of sight]

Originally Posted by smithcreek

The "Weight Distribution Hitch Cartel Conspiracy Nuts" step in to give everyone a laugh!

Just to be clear on the point of this thread;
- U-haul doesn't have scales at rental locations
- U-haul doesn't want to spend hours properly setting up every WD hitch (if the customers vehicle is even able to use one)
- U-haul doesn't was to spend another few hours teaching customers how to use them after loading the trailer
- U-haul has no way to check if the customer is using the WD hitch correctly after they load it
- Most U-haul employees would not even know how to use a WD hitch, much less teach someone else

So, to make is simple for their employees and the lawyers at U-haul they just have a list of which vehicles are allowed to tow which trailers and that's it. The guy behind the counter doesn't have to know a thing about towing, just check the list and ask you if you want supplementary insurance. Yet, somehow all of this is proof that WD hitches don't work? Got it.

Yes, that's correct. They have a list of vehicles that they allow people to tow with. They subscribe to the bigger is better theory. Can't go wrong with that. And who has more trailers and knows more about towing than U-Haul, who has probably investigated more trailer accidents than anyone on the planet?

[out of sight]

Apparently one of the first things U-Haul looks for when they investigate an accident is "Elvis lip". Often the trailer is found disconnected from the tow vehicle and the driver might try to say that the trailer hitch failed and that was the cause of the accident. But when Elvis lip is found on the coupler it shows that the trailer was actuially ripped from the ball, indicting that the accident was what caused the trailer to disconnect. Usually it's the driver who was at fault by doing something stupid, but he wants to blame someone else.

[crispyboy]

I have been reading these posts by the "tow on the ball" crowd and they have been quite entertaining. They only truth they offer is that any trailer should be properly loaded in a static position. This static condition only goes so far but when different dynamics of road undulation or crosswinds enter the picture the situation changes quickly when weight gets thrown around. Even a heavier duty tow vehicle needs some assistance for a safe tow.
I own a tow vehicle (3/4 ton diesel pickup) which is used to tow our AS travel trailer, utility trailers and a large bumper pull/dove tail trailer for our farm tractors/equipment.
When I load the farm equipment up it is imperative that the equipment is placed in "just the correct spot" for proper loading and safely traveling down the road (short distances).

I have also used this truck to tow an 25' RB Airstream "on the ball" for a family member about 300 miles across the flat of Ohio (Interstate 71)with all the typical daily crosswinds of central Ohio. I can't say the trip was a nightmare but you could tell there wasn't a weight distribution hitch (porpoising) and movement from crosswinds. As the driver I felt the need to really be on my toes. I have been pulling trailers for over 30 years so I have a bit of experience under my belt, I know what works and what doesn't.

I tow my Airstream with a wd/anti-sway hitch and my heavy diesel 3/4 ton. With my real life experiences there is no comparison with "winging it on the ball" and having a properly dialed in wd/anti-sway hitch. It is so much more relaxing for the driver (me), the truck rides so smoothly and the trailer behaves like it should. I am very comfortable with my wife driving the rig from time to time. I have taken the rig to scale and can confirm that weight is being transferred forward/backward and having plenty on the rear axle.

"On the ball" folks you can do all the math and argue all you want but if you drove my set-up or anyone else's properly setup rig - you would change your mind.

[rmkrum]

I find it interesting that you could experience porpoising even with a 3/4 ton truck with a Diesel engine. That’s a lot of front end weight.

Your experience makes sense. My main tuning method for WD is to set tension then drive a bit. If my admittedly lighter rig porpoises then I increase WD tension until it drives very smoothly.

As always, the trailer also needs to be loaded such that the tongue weight percentage is right. My setup has power operated WD jacks to make the settings easier on the road. Scale checks also bear this out.

So I guess the argument of needing no WD or anti-sway on a big truck is also as potentially spurious as we thought. Nice to have another data point. (I’m being real diplomatic here. )

[out of sight]

I tow on the ball. Rock solid at any speed. No sway, no porpoising. I have towed with wd springs and I actually find the porpoising to be worse. It depends on a lot of things to get the right harmonic to induce porpoising, but in my experience with my rig the second set of springs seems to have made it worse.

[jcl]

Originally Posted by out of sight

Yes, that's correct. They have a list of vehicles that they allow people to tow with. They subscribe to the bigger is better theory. Can't go wrong with that.

Actually, U Haul don’t subscribe to the “Can’t go wrong with that” line. That is why, even though you may have a tow vehicle heavier than the trailer and which otherwise meets their specs, they won’t let you tow with an open vehicle. When the trailer sways, and flips the heavier tow vehicle over, they want to keep the occupants in the tow vehicle.

[jcl]

Originally Posted by out of sight

I tow on the ball. Rock solid at any speed. No sway, no porpoising. I have towed with wd springs and I actually find the porpoising to be worse. It depends on a lot of things to get the right harmonic to induce porpoising, but in my experience with my rig the second set of springs seems to have made it worse.

From your description, your rig as set up seems to be inherently unstable, and thus unsafe. The too-heavy truck could be masking these instability issues, which may not then show up until it is too late.

Or it could be user error.

[out of sight]

There are actually people here arguing that the bigger the tow vehicle, the more dangerous it is. I suspect they have small vehicles.

[jcl]

Originally Posted by out of sight

There are actually people here arguing that the bigger the tow vehicle, the more dangerous it is. I suspect they have small vehicles.

You are conflating combination set up with vehicle weight.

The heavier vehicle can certainly be set up to be safe, that isn’t the question, and suggesting it is is symptomatic of the real problem.

The issue is that a heavier vehicle can (and often is) selected by someone who mistakenly thinks that they will be safer simply by virtue of having a heavier vehicle, and that nothing else is required. It doesn’t work that way. Yet we hear all about people who don’t think they need WD, people who don’t need to know their actual scale weights, people who think their truck will provide unlimited stopping power, simply because they spec’d a heavier vehicle. Those are the ones to avoid on the road.

Believing that a heavier vehicle is safer in and of itself can create a false sense of security, and that is what is unsafe, not the heavier vehicle per se.

A warning flag is when someone says that they can’t even tell the trailer is back there. It doesn’t mean they are unsafe, but it could be that the heavier vehicle is making valuable feedback to the driver.

A litmus test is to ask for scale tickets, WD setup procedure, braking test results, and so on. If someone responds that they don’t need any of that because they have a HD pickup, then the condition has been successfully diagnosed.

[jcl]

Originally Posted by out of sight

There are actually people here arguing that the bigger the tow vehicle, the more dangerous it is. I suspect they have small vehicles.

The size of other people’s equipment shouldn’t be a concern for you. It indicates insecurity re your own equipment.

[Bill M.]

Have seen several u haul rigs upside down in the ditch. Had one pass me and then develop a serious sway event right in front of me this spring. Had a friend (an engineer) who had a sway event wreck with one. Have rented one and had to stay under 45 with it too keep it stable. U haul must have good lawyers. Not a good example for how to tow though.