Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 09-26-2014, 07:43 AM   #155
4 Rivet Member
 
2007 23' Safari SE
2016 23' International
Fernandina Beach , Florida
Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 280
Quote:
Originally Posted by J. Morgan View Post
For most people power lost while towing at altitude is a peripheral issue. I have never encountered a loss of power that is overtly noticeable at altitudes of less than 6,000 feet.

If a person tows their trailer to Cripple Creek Colorado, I imagine that a driver would notice that their TV is experiencing altitude sickness....
On our recent trip towing our rig from FL to Northern California, I barely noticed any loss of power, but then I had plenty of reserve with over 400HP in my Escalade EXT. But indeed, being a Sea Level Dweller for several years now, I was very uncomfortable just being above 6000 feet!
__________________

__________________
Tomzstream is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-26-2014, 07:53 AM   #156
Rivet Master
 
J. Morgan's Avatar

 
1972 31' Sovereign
1975 31' Excella 500
Currently Looking...
Benton , Arkansas
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 5,042
Images: 11
In this era we tend to take. 400HP, (even 300HP)and its reserve towing capacity for granted.
__________________

__________________
The fact that I am opinionated does not presuppose that I am wrong......

J. Morgan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-26-2014, 07:55 AM   #157
Rivet Master
 
Msmoto's Avatar

 
2015 30' International
2009 27' FB International
2007 25' Safari
Greensboro , North Carolina
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 1,502
Images: 135
Just a note, I initially towed with a 2005 Porsche Cayenne Turbo, and no problem with any altitude issues. The problem with the Cayenne was the fact it wanted to be in fifth gear a lot on the Interstate due to the requirement to be wound up a bit to get the torque. I probably should have kept it in fifth all the time, but did not.

I fully agree the gas vs. diesel is about the fact the diesels have turbos, and not about any inherent qualities of the fuels themselves.

However, while diesel emits lower amounts of carbon monoxide, hydrocarbons and carbon dioxide than does gasoline, it has considerably more of what is called secondary organic aerosol (SOA). And SOA is a large contributor to SMOG. The question for me is whether in areas which can disperse SOA into the atmosphere as in the midwestern plains, is diesel the lessor pollutant?
__________________
Happy trails and Good Luck
Ms Tommie Fantine Lauer, Greensboro, NC
AIR #31871 WBAC #4165 K4MTL

www.fantinesvoice.com
Msmoto is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-26-2014, 08:57 AM   #158
4 Rivet Member
 
2007 23' Safari SE
2016 23' International
Fernandina Beach , Florida
Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 280
It wasn't that long ago that California sought to ban Diesel altogether. Then the legislature passed the stringent CO2 emissions statute and as a result, they did an about face on Diesel. My 2006 E-320 CDI, which originally was not saleable in CA as a new car, is now registered and passed smog easily. There is no tailpipe test to speak of, just an inspection to see that all systems are present and working.

I am with what seems to be a consensus here that Diesel trucks are not economical from a total cost of ownership perspective, given the high initial uplift, and presumed maintenance costs, but my Benz far exceeds my expectations given its cost was similar to the gasser E350, and the fact that the E350 requires premium fuel. I base that on the fact that I have averaged over 35 MPG HWY. Additionally, the Benz diesels are bulletproof, with the only major repair./maintenance done beyond routine oil changes, was replacement of the glow plugs at 100K or so, and its still going strong now at nearly 150K. ML/GL owners should be experiencing similar benefits.

Just the same, I am anxiously awaiting the debut of the smaller GM Duramax in the Colorado/Canyon, but if there is a significant uplift in price, you can count me out. Still I'd like to see the EPA numbers on it. There seems to be very little advantage to owning the 4cyl vs 6cyl mileage-wise in these new trucks... and if the Diesel does not improve on the meager mid 20's HWY figures, I'll also be out. I'd rather own a full sized Silverado with a V8 engine for a little more $$$. My 1999 Silverado with 5.3L V8 is a great truck and also has been extremely reliable. I do not use it for towing, rather deferring to my Escalade EXT which was bought for the express purpose of being a TV, and I use the Silverado for other truck things, but the lack of modern safety features in the Silverado has me shopping for another utility truck.
__________________
Tomzstream is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-26-2014, 04:42 PM   #159
Full Time Adventurer
 
BoldAdventure's Avatar
 
2007 27' International CCD FB
Nomadic , USA
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 2,743
Quote:
Originally Posted by Msmoto View Post
Just a note, I initially towed with a 2005 Porsche Cayenne Turbo, and no problem with any altitude issues. The problem with the Cayenne was the fact it wanted to be in fifth gear a lot on the Interstate due to the requirement to be wound up a bit to get the torque. I probably should have kept it in fifth all the time, but did not.

I fully agree the gas vs. diesel is about the fact the diesels have turbos, and not about any inherent qualities of the fuels themselves.

However, while diesel emits lower amounts of carbon monoxide, hydrocarbons and carbon dioxide than does gasoline, it has considerably more of what is called secondary organic aerosol (SOA). And SOA is a large contributor to SMOG. The question for me is whether in areas which can disperse SOA into the atmosphere as in the midwestern plains, is diesel the lessor pollutant?
Great question! I have wondered that. I didn't realize it was putting aerosol back into the atmosphere.

I've been doing a lot of research personally into our own foot print. I've been amazed however to discover so far that it will be smaller living in the AS full time even with all the traveling & towing than staying put in a stick house and commuting to work.
__________________
Family of 4 living, working & exploring the USA in our Airstream.
OUR BLOG | FACEBOOK | INSTAGRAM
BoldAdventure is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-10-2015, 09:16 PM   #160
Full Time Adventurer
 
BoldAdventure's Avatar
 
2007 27' International CCD FB
Nomadic , USA
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 2,743
It would be sweet if this info-graphic was updated with today's gas prices. Things have gone down quite a bit.
__________________
Family of 4 living, working & exploring the USA in our Airstream.
OUR BLOG | FACEBOOK | INSTAGRAM
BoldAdventure is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-10-2015, 11:24 PM   #161
3 Rivet Member
 
rp709's Avatar
 
2015 30' Flying Cloud
Ventura , California
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 120
Images: 5
The statement that diesel has a 113% energy content is about right. But energy efficiency has a lot to do with compression of the fuel air mixture. A Diesel engine extracts far more than 13% more energy from a gallon of fuel than a gasoline engine. Diesels are expensive because they can withstand far higher compression ratios. Therefore the diesel fuel cost is much lower than gasoline. In Ca diesel is about $3.10 and regular is 3.50 a gallon today, so it is even cheaper when measured by volume.
Gasoline powered airplanes use less fuel than jet powered airplanes. What would you rather fly? Towing with my Duramax is unlike the experience of any gas powered pickup.
__________________
rp709 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-11-2015, 08:05 AM   #162
Rivet Master
 
tjdonahoe's Avatar
 
2013 31' Classic
billings , Montana
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 1,843
From what I have gathered from people I know the duromax chev gets the better fuel mileage, I do like my 6.7 dodge towing the 31 classic the average is 12 mpg on a 4000 mile trip. There is no way I would go back to a gas powered pickup, as I like the power and torque especially at low rpm....
__________________
tjdonahoe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-11-2015, 08:55 AM   #163
Rivet Master
 
Msmoto's Avatar

 
2015 30' International
2009 27' FB International
2007 25' Safari
Greensboro , North Carolina
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 1,502
Images: 135
Updated fuel mileage

Just returned from nearly 3000 miles towing my Serenity. And, across the scales, 9260 lbs truck, 7140 lbs trailer. The truck has a full fuel load, about 90 gallons, plus the auxiliary tank weighs about 100 lbs. In the bed are generator, 160 lbs, tools, and other equipment, another 150 lbs. and the weight distribution hitch is dumping probably 600-800 lbs on it as well.

The trailer has two A/C units, Power Patio Awning, and had full water of 54 gallons.

So, with a GCVW of 16,400 lbs, I obtained about 12 mpg headed north west to South Dakota, into head/side winds of 20+ mph, then from Wisconsin back to North Carolina over 15 mpg, figured over 1000 + miles of towing. Speeds were 60 - 65 mph, more toward the 65. These figures are calculated from miles driven and gallons used, not from any on board computer. I record all fuel purchased in a log book.

My Dodge/Cummins has been tuned slightly by Pure Diesel in Kernersville, NC, and runs exceptionally smooth and powerful.
__________________
Happy trails and Good Luck
Ms Tommie Fantine Lauer, Greensboro, NC
AIR #31871 WBAC #4165 K4MTL

www.fantinesvoice.com
Msmoto is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-11-2015, 09:35 AM   #164
Vintage Kin
 
slowmover's Avatar
 
Fort Worth , Texas
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 7,582
Images: 1
MsMoto, are you maximizing the use of cruise control? There is at least a one mile mpg correlation between that and average mpg. For a Dodge, keeping revs at or below 2000 is big. I think your mpg are a bit low. As a test, is it a 30 or 40% reduction from solo? My rig is longer and heavier with a higher average at 63-mph as comparison. An 08 is emissions crippled, so delete of same with a mini max tuner is the usual "fix ". The percentage drop is the telling number.

Tjdonahoe, the day a MaxiPad gets better fuel economy on a model year and truck spec basis than a CTD is the day a lot of us will trade for one. A day that won't dawn.
__________________
1990 35' Silver Streak Sterling; 9k GVWR.
2004 DODGE Cummins 305/555; 6-manual; 9k GVWR.
Hensley Arrow. 9-cpm solo, 15-cpm towing
Sold: Silver Streak Model 3411
slowmover is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-11-2015, 04:21 PM   #165
Vintage Kin
 
slowmover's Avatar
 
Fort Worth , Texas
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 7,582
Images: 1
InfoGraphic: Actual Fuel Economy of Diesel vs Gas Towing

Re-read this thread. A lot of comments about the higher long term expense of owning a diesel pickup

Fuel is about half the long term cost. Depreciation plus other overhead is greater.

I bought mine because I knew the long term expense would be lower, and so it has been. 205k miles and have had to replace u-joints. Which might be called a wearing item, closer to a basic maintenance expense. Original clutch, one brake re-line, and recently installed second set of replacement tires. Etc.

Overall average mpg the past 55,000-miles is 21. 50/50 town & country.

As I'll keep it, it's time for me to start spending on it so as not to suffer breakdowns. Systematically, not piecemeal.

I did a close comparison some years back with another man who pulled our trailer type and also lived in the South Central US. Same truck, but with gasser motor.

What we found is that so long as diesel stayed under 50-cents higher than gasoline that fuel mileage was a wash.

But I doubt that his truck is still easily pulling a big trailer with a gas motor now with over 200,000 miles on it.

The curve favors diesel somewhere past 150k where other factors are the same. Pulling one our bigger trailers is no sweat to a Cummins, but a Hemi is getting a workout. Which I think adds to gasser longevity until the day it doesn't. Then it fades rapidly in performance.

Even more so a Cummins to choose as the diesel power plant since design life is far greater than the competition. Longest life and highest mpg.

To get back closer to what I perceived as the spirit of the thread, convert your towing and solo fuel cost to cents-per-mile. My towing cost fell ten cents per mile in the change from $4/gl diesel to $2.50/gl diesel. From 27-cpm to 17-cpm.

As the cost of an RV is divided into the annual nights aboard for value, the cost of the TV is between a commuter-mobile and the chosen tow vehicle spread. And it's not just FE, but all other associated overhead as well.

That's the economy. And has to be added into the nights aboard calculation. It's high. Why motels are cheaper, in general.

A diesel TV chosen for long term overall economy coupled to a TT that lasts a couple of decades without major work IS economy. For an RV. If the owner keeps the TT twenty years and only changes TVs every ten years or longer, then it meets the low cost parameter. For an RV.
__________________
1990 35' Silver Streak Sterling; 9k GVWR.
2004 DODGE Cummins 305/555; 6-manual; 9k GVWR.
Hensley Arrow. 9-cpm solo, 15-cpm towing
Sold: Silver Streak Model 3411
slowmover is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-12-2015, 12:11 AM   #166
Rivet Master
 
ROBERTSUNRUS's Avatar

 
2005 25' Safari
Salem , Oregon
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 7,266
Images: 18
Blog Entries: 51
Hi, Too many calculations for me; I just pay my bills and enjoy the trip. I don't know how long my vehicle will last and neither does anyone one else. Chances are I will never wear a vehicle out before buying another one. Cost per mile???? Who cares? I don't. My trips, my experiences, my followers, my pictures, my memories, and my stories are priceless.
__________________
Bob

2005 Safari 25-B
"Le Petit Chateau Argent"
[ Small Silver Castle ]
2000 Navigator / 2014 F-150 Eco-Boost / Equal-i-zer / P-3
YAMAHA 2400 / AIR #12144
ROBERTSUNRUS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-12-2015, 12:22 AM   #167
Rivet Master
 
Msmoto's Avatar

 
2015 30' International
2009 27' FB International
2007 25' Safari
Greensboro , North Carolina
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 1,502
Images: 135
My exhaust is unrestricted from turbo back. Tune is for max fuel mileage. Solo gives 20 - 21 mpg at 65 mph. I drive conservatively, use cruise almost all the time except in very hilly country better fuel economy comes with more constant throttle than constant speed.

I suspect the windy conditions may have played a big part in fuel mileage, and when not towing in South Dakota the 80 mph speed limit did not help economy....LOL


Ms Tommie Lauer
Greensboro, NC
2015 Serenity 30 RB / 2008 Dodge Cummins 4 X 4
WBCCI #4165 AIR #31871
__________________
Happy trails and Good Luck
Ms Tommie Fantine Lauer, Greensboro, NC
AIR #31871 WBAC #4165 K4MTL

www.fantinesvoice.com
Msmoto is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-12-2015, 04:19 AM   #168
Vintage Kin
 
slowmover's Avatar
 
Fort Worth , Texas
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 7,582
Images: 1
Yeah, those high rpm jaunts are like hitting a bad headwind. And if 21 solo, then 12.5 towing is a dead-on 40% penalty. Right on the predictive mark, so to speak.
__________________

__________________
1990 35' Silver Streak Sterling; 9k GVWR.
2004 DODGE Cummins 305/555; 6-manual; 9k GVWR.
Hensley Arrow. 9-cpm solo, 15-cpm towing
Sold: Silver Streak Model 3411
slowmover is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Favorite Higher Fuel Economy Tow Vehicles ALANSD Tow Vehicles 88 07-29-2014 04:49 PM
Please list your model and fuel economy LANcamp Airstream Motorhome Forums 76 05-31-2013 01:19 PM
The Xmas fuel economy thread! Dave Park Tow Vehicles 8 12-15-2010 10:55 PM
Fuel economy loss ralley Mechanics Corner - Engines, Transmission & More... 12 01-06-2009 02:40 PM
Fuel economy ideas and MPG Boosting (merged threads) maxandgeorgia Tow Vehicles 104 07-23-2008 09:19 PM


Virginia Campgrounds

Reviews provided by




Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 06:35 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.

Airstream is a registered trademark of Airstream Inc. All rights reserved. Airstream trademark used under license to Social Knowledge LLC.