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Old 07-14-2015, 07:24 PM   #15
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2014 31' Classic
2015 23' International
2013 25' FB International
Apache Junction , Arizona
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 4,799
Images: 8
When I picked up our 2013 25FB International Serenity from the dealer in Los Angles, the Shureline scale reported a tongue weight of 1,150 pounds with full propane and water tanks, all awnings, a 155 watt dealer solar panel on the roof and the Hensley hitch head attached. Nothing else was in the trailer. My 2007 Mercedes ML320 CDI diesel had no issues climbing the mountains out of Palm Springs while maintaining the "posted" speed limit of 55. I did down shift from 7 to 5 to keep rpms at 2200. I had taken it to CanAm in London, Ontario to have the hitch reinforced and the Hensley stinger modified.

The numbers across the CAT scales were okay with just me in the car.

After loading the trailer with all our camping stuff and both of us in the car, the scale numbers were a no go for the Mercedes. The tongue weight had increased to 1,175 pounds. The trailer scaled 6,950 pounds of it's 7,300 pound GVW rating.

We upgraded the tow vehicle to a 2012 Dodge 2500HD diesel pickup and all weight issues disappeared for the 25FB and the 2014 Classic model 30 with a GVW rating of 10,000 pounds. We load the truck bed with whatever we want and typically run down the highway around 19,250 pounds with the Classic. Our Classic has the ProPride hitch (second generation Hensley design).

I will retry my 2007 Mercedes on a 2015 23D International Serenity with the Hensley hitch head, all awnings and full propane and water tanks later this week.

WBCCI Life Member 5123, AIR 70341, 4CU, WD9EMC

TV - 2012 Dodge 2500 4x4 Cummins HO, automatic, Centramatics, Kelderman level ride airbag suspension, bed shell

2014 31' Classic model 30 twin beds, 50 amp service, 900 watt solar system, Centramatics, Dill TPMS, disc brakes, 16" tires & wheels
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Old 07-14-2015, 07:44 PM   #16
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2015 25' International
Scottsdale , Arizona
Join Date: Aug 2014
Posts: 122
We had a 2014 Flying Cloud 23D and traded it in for a 2015 International 25 rear twin. We found the bed in the 23D to be too small, hard to get in and out of especially if one person was sleeping. We love the 25 with the twin beds, it offers more interior room, more exterior storage, and the beds are easier to make and offers more sleeping area. We also like the ducted air on the 2015, much quite that the 2014.


2017 Ford F-250 Diesel
2015 25' International
WBCCI # 5462 4CU
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Old 07-14-2015, 08:03 PM   #17
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2015 16' Sport
Oakville , Ontario
Join Date: Aug 2014
Posts: 234
Images: 29
With 3 kids I'd get the 27'. Why shuffle around the bed ?

People are happy towing the 25 with the Q and you've got 1000lbs less in the Reg.

Having your WDH hitch dialed in just right is important. There are people here with 60k trucks and near 100k trailers complaining about spending 2k on hitch/brake and sway controllers/WDH/sway bars/ball weld work.
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Old 07-14-2015, 08:32 PM   #18
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2012 25' FB Flying Cloud
Grand Rapids , Michigan
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 163
By all means go with the 25FB. You'll love it.
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Old 07-14-2015, 08:46 PM   #19
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2014 23' International
Salt Lake City , Utah
Join Date: Apr 2015
Posts: 74
We were in a very similar scenario a few months ago. We have a similar SUV, 2006 LR3 V8 and did not want to buy a new TV. We wanted the smallest TT that would fit our needs and we have three kids! I was very safety conscious and did a lot of research on the weight limits and optimum WD/Sway setup.

We decided the 23D was the biggest/heaviest one we could tow with our car. I think I would prefer the 25 RB for the back-facing dinette and maybe the bathroom setup right outside the main bed, other than that, it really doesn't provide any additional sleeping area for the kids so they would NOT benefit from the bigger one.

The 23D bed is small but not uncomfortable. I questioned weather the hubby (6') would be OK with it and we have both been totally fine with it. I like to cuddle, but you can still both sleep on it without touching if you really want to. I don't think it's hard to make (which I was also concerned about), ironically, because it is small, so it's really easy to reach the other side. We have a light down comforter on it with a duvet. I think it's a bit weird that couples prefer to sleep in separate twin beds! I guess this point is really up to individual preferences.

Kids are 5, 7, and 10. The two younger share the dinette bed. We pulled out the other bed for the 10 y.o. the first time and then decided it really wasn't necessary. She just sleeps on it as a bench. At some point, the boys will probably be too big to sleep together but it will be quite a while before this happens. We've actually already bought a 5-person instant tent for whenever they decide they want their own space to sleep in. However, the front dinette/bench area has a really spacious feel for sleeping, more so than the actual bed in the back.

The only drawback to kids in the 23D vs the 25 I see is the bathroom is right next to the bed. I want some alone time in the morning so I've tried to tell them that's not a public area until we're up.

Other than that. I think I would feel really stressed about safety with the 25' and not enjoy that aspect of it. It's not that our car can't pull it. But when it comes to unforeseen emergency maneuvers, stopping, or downhill grades, that's when you need to consider the weight/size of what you're towing more seriously. I like the "compact" size of the 23D, it's easy to maneuver in the city (I've towed it) and does seem easier to fit in many campgrounds.

Another thing to consider, is that some people towing with Touaregs and similar SUVs seem to be couples and they are doing special things to reduce tongue weight such as removing spare tires, gas tanks, and packing light in the car. With three kids, I feel you just can't do that. You're gonna have the three kids in the car and all their gear even if you pack light which we try to. Last trip, we had two adults bike behind the TT and little kids bikes in the back of the LR3. On another trip, we put two light kid kayaks inside the TT. It's too difficult to reduce weight with a whole family which is another con on the 25' and longer TTs in my opinion.

We did some primitive camping for six days with the kids and didn't run out of water even though I washed way too many dishes. It was very positive.

Well, hope that helps. There doesn't seem to be too many votes for going smaller so I thought I'd represent.

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