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Old 12-19-2014, 07:12 PM   #29
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Check with members who have had some degree of difficulty hitching up on uneven ground where the TV and TT (hitch and receiver) are not on the same plane. I would like to try a PP, but have NO experience with it or the HA/Cub. One member missed scheduled times due to difficulty hooking up her hitch. I would really like to try a PP. I may just be too frugal, but have not had any noticeable sway issues so far with either of our 25s or a 20. YMMV.
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Old 12-19-2014, 07:16 PM   #30
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Originally Posted by mefly2 View Post
Check with members who have had some degree of difficulty hitching up on uneven ground where the TV and TT are not on the same plane. I would like to try a PP, but have NO experience with it or the HA/Cub.
Yes. As a rookie with the ProPride, I didn't understand the correct procedure to ensure the angle alignment between hitch head and stinger - including the simple adjustments to the WD jacks that make it work. Had a bear of a time once but thanks to the forum folks, I learned what I was missing and it's been smooth sailing ever since.

Life has a funny learning curve :-)
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Old 12-20-2014, 12:31 PM   #31
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I think most people agree that PPP hitches provide the best sway control. What is very off putting is a few PPP owners trying to promote their preferred hitch by bashing other hitches (even though hundreds of thousands of people are happily using them). To a neutral newbie (like myself) this attitude is very unappealing.

Also, I find it unbelievable that some experienced folks use the marketing language of their product as a proven fact and repeat it without any qualifiers. Like, "sway elimination". Guess what, a hitch, like any other physical product, will operate as advertised within a range. Go outside that range, and it will not operate as advertised. If the forces of sway exceed the forces preventing it, sway WILL happen. That's just the laws of physics.

Having a steep price, massive weight, and difficulty hitching on uneven surfaces may not be an issue for YOU, but could be a deal breaker for others. Every great product (PPP hitches included) have drawbacks. Stop acting as if you have a product with no drawbacks -- No such product exists.
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Old 12-20-2014, 12:55 PM   #32
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Originally Posted by rostam View Post
I think most people agree that PPP hitches provide the best sway control. What is very off putting is a few PPP owners trying to promote their preferred hitch by bashing other hitches (even though hundreds of thousands of people are happily using them). To a neutral newbie (like myself) this attitude is very unappealing.

Also, I find it unbelievable that some experienced folks use the marketing language of their product as a proven fact and repeat it without any qualifiers. Like, "sway elimination". Guess what, a hitch, like any other physical product, will operate as advertised within a range. Go outside that range, and it will not operate as advertised. If the forces of sway exceed the forces preventing it, sway WILL happen. That's just the laws of physics.

Having a steep price, massive weight, and difficulty hitching on uneven surfaces may not be an issue for YOU, but could be a deal breaker for others. Every great product (PPP hitches included) have drawbacks. Stop acting as if you have a product with no drawbacks -- No such product exists.
I would be very interested in links to these posts showing PPP hitch owners bashing other hitches. What I see mostly is PPP hitch users saying that the PPP hitches are superior to other hitches they have used in controlling sway. I am in that category, and that statement applies to me. Nearly everything that is posted on Airforums is someone's opinion. This is not the encyclopedia Britannica or Scientific American. It is a forum for exchange of opinions, ideas, and information.

What I do see a lot of lately are a group of people, to which it appears you belong, with no experience using one of the hitches, spouting off hearsay information from others that also have never used one.

No one is telling you to use one and no one cares if you do. They are simply trying to let others benefit from their experiences. Make your own decision, but do not disparage others who comments are based on experience and not hearsay.

Everyone's opinion is of their own and everyone is entitled to one. Try not to feel attacked or offended if someone expresses an opinion you do not agree with.

Ken

P.S. for the record:
Saying that in my opinion or experience A is better than B is not in and of itself bashing B
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Old 12-20-2014, 01:37 PM   #33
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I would be very interested in links to these posts showing PPP hitch owners bashing other hitches. What I see mostly is PPP hitch users saying that the PPP hitches are superior to other hitches they have used in controlling sway. I am in that category, and that statement applies to me. Nearly everything that is posted on Airforums is someone's opinion. This is not the encyclopedia Britannica or Scientific American. It is a forum for exchange of opinions, ideas, and information.

What I do see a lot of lately are a group of people, to which it appears you belong, with no experience using one of the hitches, spouting off hearsay information from others that also have never used one.

No one is telling you to use one and no one cares if you do. They are simply trying to let others benefit from their experiences. Make your own decision, but do not disparage others who comments are based on experience and not hearsay.

Everyone's opinion is of their own and everyone is entitled to one. Try not to feel attacked or offended if someone expresses an opinion you do not agree with.

Ken

P.S. for the record:
Saying that in my opinion or experience A is better than B is not in and of itself bashing B
The PPP hitches are much heavier than non-PPP hitches. They are also much more expensive. I believe these are facts, not hearsay or opinion.

In the short time I've been in this forum, I have read about multiple people reporting problems with hitching on uneven surfaces. I have no experience with PPP hitches, so I can not opine on whether this is true or false. I doubt those folks are lying though.
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Old 12-20-2014, 01:52 PM   #34
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Perceived drawbacks are only part of the learning curve in use. Irrelevant after experience.
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Old 12-20-2014, 02:06 PM   #35
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The Hensley hitch design has been around 20 years and it is rare to hear of someone who actually uses one complain of its performance.

But let a poster ask how it performs and it opens a floodgate of complaints about its performance by folks who have never used it.

These opinions should be qualified with "I've never used one, but I know you won't like it".
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Old 12-20-2014, 02:09 PM   #36
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I've never read anyone make a statement like that. More like the other way around.
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Old 12-20-2014, 02:22 PM   #37
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Originally Posted by rostam View Post
The PPP hitches are much heavier than non-PPP hitches. They are also much more expensive. I believe these are facts, not hearsay or opinion.

In the short time I've been in this forum, I have read about multiple people reporting problems with hitching on uneven surfaces. I have no experience with PPP hitches, so I can not opine on whether this is true or false. I doubt those folks are lying though.
The bold text illustrates why you should not be repeating these thing as though they were universal truths.

"The PPP hitches are much heavier than non-PPP hitches. They are also much more expensive."

Yes, this is true, some people may not be able to afford them, and some others may not be able to or not wish to deal with the weight. However this does not negate the validity of the experiences of those that do use them.

I am still interested in examples of where owners of PPP hitches are "bashing" other hitches in ways other than saying that their experience shows PPP hitches to be significantly better at controlling sway than other hitches they have used. That is not bashing other hitches, unless you have some definition of bashing, that I have not heard before.

I don't own a current year model trailer or automobile. However if someone who does told be that it was better than a car or trailer that he used to own and I currently own, I would listen to the reasons and not be offended by his opinion and not think he was bashing my vehicle. I would think he was passing along information that I might have use for and was trying to be helpful. Try looking at what you see as bashing with this in mind.

Ken
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Old 12-20-2014, 02:25 PM   #38
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Counting on abstract reasoning again, aren't you?
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Old 12-20-2014, 02:59 PM   #39
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The bold text illustrates why you should not be repeating these thing as though they were universal truths.
As for difficulty hitching up, here is a thread from an actual user:

http://www.airforums.com/forums/f464...ll-126665.html

It seems it took her 5 hours to hitch up.

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Yes, this is true, some people may not be able to afford them, and some others may not be able to or not wish to deal with the weight. However this does not negate the validity of the experiences of those that do use them.
Ok, it seems we agree that weight and price could be a show stopper for some. I clearly said that most people consider PPP hitches the best when it comes to sway control. My issue is with providing a "pros only" analysis of PPP hitches as many forum members do.

Also, some of the other posts in this forum have reinforced my belief that common sense overrides experience.
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Old 12-20-2014, 03:15 PM   #40
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As for difficulty hitching up, here is a thread from an actual user:

http://www.airforums.com/forums/f464...ll-126665.html

It seems it took her 5 hours to hitch up.



Ok, it seems we agree that weight and price could be a show stopper for some. I clearly said that most people consider PPP hitches the best when it comes to sway control. My issue is with providing a "pros only" analysis of PPP hitches as many forum members do.

Also, some of the other posts in this forum have reinforced my belief that common sense overrides experience.
Did you read that whole thread? If so, I'm guessing that you either are being humorous or don't believe someone should read instructions and understand how it works before using a complicated piece of equipment.

I will admit that the "grab and go" user probably shouldn't use anything but a ball hitch only, and then drive very slowly.

I think we've both made our point, let's drop this discussion.

Ken
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Old 12-20-2014, 04:51 PM   #41
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Yes. As a rookie with the ProPride, I didn't understand the correct procedure to ensure the angle alignment between hitch head and stinger - including the simple adjustments to the WD jacks that make it work. Had a bear of a time once but thanks to the forum folks, I learned what I was missing and it's been smooth sailing ever since.

Life has a funny learning curve :-)
I think this says it all on the difficulties some have had in their learning curve, which there is on all aspects of towing really!

I've heard nobody spouting marketing speak on HC/HA/PP hitches on here, just relating actual first hand experience.

Yes - ALL hitches have limitations & drawbacks, & the friction & cam types of anti-sway have theirs, as does the opposing brake application of the built-in systems in the Ford F150 & other TVs with similar systems, while the geometry of the HC/HA/PP hitches use yet another approach, which IMHO actual user experience is better that the others.

I'm sure somebody could do some real crazy a stuff with a TV+TT rig and get it spilled or past the HC/HA/PP limits too - but is that what we're on here to promote.

OP asked for input relative to the SwiftCub, to which a few HC/HA/PP users replied on topic - but with a lot of others degrading it as unusable, which it is not.

It's getting too silly & personal jabs for me to waste more time here, so time for me to unsubscribe to this folly!

Good Luck to the OP & Happy Holidays to all!
Tom
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Old 12-20-2014, 05:04 PM   #42
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While as a "newbie" it's been fascinating to watch the dynamics of this forum and at the risk of kicking the ant hill yet again, can someone explain this to me?

I can tell the difference & prefer the Cub's ease of use, & feel confident that I can still use it easily well into my 70's & 80's without having to hoist the Equalizer/Curt/BlueOX/etc. types of WD head & torsion bars off every stinking time!

About hoisting the Equalizer etc. off every time?
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