|
|
01-03-2015, 09:26 AM
|
#81
|
Rivet Master
Commercial Member
2019 27' Tommy Bahama
London
, Ontario
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 1,343
|
Back to the original question.
I would suggest trying it out with the Eaz-Lift system you have. I think you will find that on the X5 the 25' will be more stable than the 19. With the 25 the higher hitch weight means that the torsion bars will need to do more work to transfer weight so the hitch geometry comes more into play which adds to stability. The wider stance and tandem axle contribute as well.
If you did want to go one step further with the Eaz-Lift we can make up a welded ball mount and ship it to you. A welded ball mount further reduces the rear overhang and is much nicer to handle when unhooking. Here is a picture of a welded ball mount set up on a Cayenne which is similar.
Andrew T
__________________
Andrew Thomson London, Ontario
"One test is worth a thousand expert opinions." Tex Johnston, Boeing 707 test pilot
|
|
|
01-03-2015, 09:34 AM
|
#82
|
Rivet Master
2005 25' Safari
Salem
, Oregon
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 8,367
|
Hi, I didn't pick my hitch; I was told by the selling dealer what they were giving me for free with my new trailer and it has been great for over ten years.
My problem with hitch discussions is some of the PPP type hitch people seem to be preaching. They remind me of the people who tell you that if you don't go to their church and believe what they believe, you're going to 7734.
I'm not an insecure person and I'm very happy with my tow vehicle, my trailer, my hitch, my Marathon tires, and my drum brakes. If you're not, then buy what makes you happy, be happy, and stop preaching!
__________________
Bob 2005 Safari 25-B
"Le Petit Chateau Argent" Small Silver Castle
2000 Navigator / 2014 F-150 Eco-Boost / Equal-i-zer / P-3
YAMAHA 2400 / AIR #12144
|
|
|
01-03-2015, 09:37 AM
|
#83
|
Rivet Master
Vintage Kin Owner
N/A
, N/A
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 989
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by ROBERTSUNRUS
Hi, I didn't pick my hitch; I was told by the selling dealer what they were giving me for free with my new trailer and it has been great for over ten years.
My problem with hitch discussions is some of the PPP type hitch people seem to be preaching. They remind me of the people who tell you that if you don't go to their church and believe what they believe, you're going to 7734.
I'm not an insecure person and I'm very happy with my tow vehicle, my trailer, my hitch, my Marathon tires, and my drum brakes. If you're not, then buy what makes you happy, be happy, and stop preaching!
|
Very well said
|
|
|
01-03-2015, 09:51 AM
|
#84
|
Rivet Master
2012 25' Flying Cloud
Battle Lake
, Minnesota
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 7,714
|
Thanks Andrew T, good to see the master at work. Shortened ball mount, hitch head and w.d. bars tilted down, spare (re)moved to accommodate tongue weight for a particular vehicle and customer's needs.
While we're all using the bigger hammer approach.
__________________
Doug and Cheryl
2012 FC RB, Michelin 16, ProPride 1400
2016 Ram 1500 Laramie Crew Cab 4X4 Ecodiesel 3.92 axles
The Truth is More Important Than the Facts
|
|
|
01-03-2015, 10:15 AM
|
#85
|
3 Rivet Member
Currently Looking...
Currently Looking...
Mineral Bluff
, Georgia
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 130
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by dkottum
Thanks Andrew T, good to see the master at work. Shortened ball mount, hitch head and w.d. bars tilted down, spare (re)moved to accommodate tongue weight for a particular vehicle and customer's needs.
|
Andy was our hitch guru as well. CampLite 21BHS behind a Ford Flex w/EcoBoost and factory Class III hitch:
EAZLift Elite with Husky sway control at his suggestion.
New hole drilled to bring the ball a few inches closer to the Flex.
Tilted the head just a bit to allow for just one link hanging.
Battery and propane positions swapped to allow chains to be near vertical (at forum member's suggestion).
And more recently, receiver reinforced on our Flex.
We're newbies, but as far as we can tell the whole rig handles really well.
The overall setup - camping at WalMart, no less!
|
|
|
01-03-2015, 11:04 AM
|
#86
|
Rivet Master
Currently Looking...
Vancouver
, British Columbia
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 4,566
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by SteveH
Yep, going the way of all tow vehicle threads. People ask for opinions of tow vehicles, then people give their opinion, and other people don't like those opinions because they differ from their own opinion, and arguments start, then escalate.
|
I don't disagree it often goes this way, but to be fair, the OP didn't ask for tow vehicle opinions. He already has two years of towing experience with his X5d, and stated up front that he was confident in it. He likely has more towing experience with an X5 than most commenting here. He just wanted a hitch recommendation.
Jeff
|
|
|
01-03-2015, 11:16 AM
|
#87
|
Rivet Master
2005 39' Land Yacht 390 XL 396
Common Sense
, Texas
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 5,319
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by jcl
I don't disagree it often goes this way, but to be fair, the OP didn't ask for tow vehicle opinions. He already has two years of towing experience with his X5d, and stated up front that he was confident in it. He likely has more towing experience with an X5 than most commenting here. He just wanted a hitch recommendation.
Jeff
|
Yes I know, but hitch threads aren't any different, and this thread morphed into a tow vehicle thread.
__________________
Regards,
Steve
|
|
|
01-04-2015, 07:21 AM
|
#88
|
Rivet Master
Vintage Kin Owner
N/A
, N/A
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 989
|
The tow ratings that car manufacturers slap on their vehicles is based on engineering principles (leave some wiggle room for marketing). They verify those ratings with J2807 tests. The "empirical" folks on this forum who try to belittle those principles/tests don't have any meaningful argument as their sample size is minuscule -- To put things in perspective, Ford sells 60000 F150's every month. The fact that a few people have good experience with a sedan/minivan is irrelevant.
I am yet to see a J2807 test showing a sedan/minivan is rated more than what the manufacturer says. I am sure a they can tow more, but it does not mean they are rated more, as there are constraints in J2807 tests that must be satisfied. I also question the wisdom of exceeding the manufacturer ratings. Doing a cost/benefit analysis, I believe it is not worth it -- I understand different people might reach a different conclusion. To each their own.
p.s I am a newbie to RVing but am an old time auto enthusiast.
|
|
|
01-04-2015, 07:26 AM
|
#89
|
Vintage Kin
Fort Worth
, Texas
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 8,014
|
The OEMs don't test whole classes of vehicles as to towing capacity. J2807 therefore doesn't apply. And, were those classes tested then the tests themselves would change.
What isn't said is more important than what is said.
|
|
|
01-04-2015, 07:46 AM
|
#90
|
Lost in America
2015 27' FB International
2006 25' Safari FB SE
2004 19' International CCD
Santa Fe
, New Mexico
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 2,151
|
For those of you who seem to spend a lot of time pouring over manufacturer specs, car brochures, manuals and door stickers....it ain't all the same.
As an example, the VW Touareg, a vehicle which I have over 8 years of towing experience with, has various sets of numbers for the same vehicles and the same set of numbers for different vehicles. I have seen three different sets of numbers for hitch and tow capacities. I have seen different gcvw numbers for same vehicle and then the same numbers for a V6, V8 and a V10, even though the engine weights alone are all different. I even had a dealer refuse to change out wheel and tires on a new Touareg because changing the tires would change the payload rating and not comply with the door sticker.
Now I am not going to waste my time verifying all of this for you, but my real world experience has shown me that there is confusion and errors in the translation from European specs to American specs for the same car. So all I can add is, don't believe everything you read until you're sure you've read everything.
__________________
This is the strangest life I've ever known - J. Morrison
2015 Airstream International Serenity 27FB
2017 Chevy Silverado 2500HD Duramax Diesel
|
|
|
01-04-2015, 07:55 AM
|
#91
|
Rivet Master
2005 39' Land Yacht 390 XL 396
Common Sense
, Texas
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 5,319
|
What is interesting to me is how diligent everyone is when finding just the right options on say, an F150 pickup, to get the payload and towing capacity they need, such as wheelbase, gear ratio, max payload option, max towing option, etc. Everything is considered down to gross axle weight ratings, tire capacity, and on and on to make sure the truck will not only tow the trailer, but will also not be overloaded. Personally, I view this as a good thing. And lots of people have posted scale weight tickets to prove and insure they are within manufacturer's ratings.
However, if the tow vehicle considered is a sedan, a sport SUV, a minivan or such, they just say things like "the manufacturer's weight and towing specs are just marking tools, and really don't mean anything".
Then if you ask these same people if they have weighed their rigs to insure they are not over the manufacturer's limits, they say sure I have and it's good, but never is a weight ticket shown.
I think if you check into it deep enough you will find the manufacturer's do a lot more than just throw a number at a vehicle for marketing reasons. They compute how much weight a chassis, or frame can routinely carry, how much weight a bearing can handle, how much weight an axle can carry without excessive flex, how much heat a cooling system can dissipate, how much HP and torque is available thru what gears, and on and on.
Everyone understands these numbers have a safety margin built into them to protect everyone, especially the manufacturers themselves, but to totally ignore the ratings and say, "oh well, I know a guy that has towed X trailer with Y vehicle, and had no problems, so it must be OK" seems a little foolish to me. We all know you can tow almost any travel trailer with almost any vehicle, but for how long, over what road conditions, and with what margin for safety, etc.?
And Andy, if you would like to know my towing experience, I'd be happy to share that info with you in a PM because this post is already too long.
__________________
Regards,
Steve
|
|
|
01-04-2015, 08:38 AM
|
#92
|
"Cloudsplitter"
2003 25' Classic
Houstatlantavegas
, Malebolgia
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 19,977
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by SteveH
What is interesting to me is how diligent everyone is when finding just the right options on say, an F150 pickup, to get the payload and towing capacity they need, such as wheelbase, gear ratio, max payload option, max towing option, etc. Everything is considered down to gross axle weight ratings, tire capacity, and on and on to make sure the truck will not only tow the trailer, but will also not be overloaded. Personally, I view this as a good thing. And lots of people have posted scale weight tickets to prove and insure they are within manufacturer's ratings.
However, if the tow vehicle considered is a sedan, a sport SUV, a minivan or such, they just say things like "the manufacturer's weight and towing specs are just marking tools, and really don't mean anything".
Then if you ask these same people if they have weighed their rigs to insure they are not over the manufacturer's limits, they say sure I have and it's good, but never is a weight ticket shown.
I think if you check into it deep enough you will find the manufacturer's do a lot more than just throw a number at a vehicle for marketing reasons. They compute how much weight a chassis, or frame can routinely carry, how much weight a bearing can handle, how much weight an axle can carry without excessive flex, how much heat a cooling system can dissipate, how much HP and torque is available thru what gears, and on and on.
Everyone understands these numbers have a safety margin built into them to protect everyone, especially the manufacturers themselves, but to totally ignore the ratings and say, "oh well, I know a guy that has towed X trailer with Y vehicle, and had no problems, so it must be OK" seems a little foolish to me. We all know you can tow almost any travel trailer with almost any vehicle, but for how long, and with what margin for safety, etc.?
And Andy, if you would like to know my towing experience, I'd be happy to share that info with you in a PM because this post is already too long.
|
^
X2
Absolutely on point!!!
I've oft time wondered where the actual weight numbers are for the folks advocating such & such vehicles.
Payload of my Burb?, I'm not really very concerned as long as my weight tickets are not over the axle & tire load ratings. I'm very comfortable with a ticket verified 820lb rear axle and 540lb front axle cushion when hitched and fully loaded.
Same goes for my tongue load when hitched. The Reese Tow Beast has a 1000lb margin.
I've said it many times....
“Its better to have what you don't need when you need it, than not to have it when you don’t.”
Bob
|
|
|
01-04-2015, 08:40 AM
|
#93
|
Rivet Master
Vintage Kin Owner
N/A
, N/A
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 989
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by slowmover
The OEMs don't test whole classes of vehicles as to towing capacity. J2807 therefore doesn't apply. And, were those classes tested then the tests themselves would change.
|
Of course. Testing is a mean to verify the specification. If the specifications says the vehicle can tow 10000#, the tests need to verify that. If the specification says "Not to be used as tow vehicle", it will be excluded from the test. It makes complete sense why a class of vehicles ("those not designed to tow") are excluded.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mojo
For those of you who seem to spend a lot of time pouring over manufacturer specs, car brochures, manuals and door stickers....it ain't all the same.
|
Well at least I am consistent. There are folks that ignore the manual when it comes to tow rating, but do the regular maintenance, engine oil type, tire type, brake pads, etc 100% according to the user manual.
|
|
|
01-04-2015, 09:29 AM
|
#94
|
Rivet Master
2012 25' Flying Cloud
Battle Lake
, Minnesota
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 7,714
|
Quite the discussion. My conclusion, after reading the arguments on both sides, is that a European diesel SUV has moved much higher on our list of tow vehicles to replace our Ram pickup.
__________________
Doug and Cheryl
2012 FC RB, Michelin 16, ProPride 1400
2016 Ram 1500 Laramie Crew Cab 4X4 Ecodiesel 3.92 axles
The Truth is More Important Than the Facts
|
|
|
01-04-2015, 04:31 PM
|
#95
|
2 Rivet Member
2015 25' Flying Cloud
Stillwater
, Minnesota
Join Date: Dec 2014
Posts: 61
|
My initial thought was to buy a second, heavier set of spring bars so i could re-purpose my existing Eaz-Lift hitch, but the light went off when I remembered that the hook up saddles and sway control attachment point for that hitch are welded onto the 19 foot Airstream. At that point the cost of a second Eaz-Lift hitch was about the same or less than the sum of all those parts.
Which then raised the question: “Well, since you need to buy a new hitch anyway, is there a good/better alternative to the Eaz-Lift? Especially one that incorporates improved sway control properties?” (I use that friction sway control, but its not my favourite).
I was hoping for hitch recommendations, as opposed to advice on a different tow vehicle. I have and will use the BMW X5d. That’s a non-negotiable at this juncture. Who knows about next year?
ProPride is mentioned often. Sticking with an Eaz-Lift is a cost-effective consideration. But what about other good choices? Reese Straight Line, perhaps? Blue Ox Sway Pro? Andersen?
Nonetheless, this has been really informative, and quite entertaining. Much better than Cable or DirecTV, and its free. How cool is that?
Thanks again, its nice to be here.
Rod
|
|
|
01-04-2015, 05:40 PM
|
#96
|
Rivet Master
2005 39' Land Yacht 390 XL 396
Common Sense
, Texas
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 5,319
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by StillRod
My initial thought was to buy a second, heavier set of spring bars so i could re-purpose my existing Eaz-Lift hitch, but the light went off when I remembered that the hook up saddles and sway control attachment point for that hitch are welded onto the 19 foot Airstream. At that point the cost of a second Eaz-Lift hitch was about the same or less than the sum of all those parts.
Which then raised the question: “Well, since you need to buy a new hitch anyway, is there a good/better alternative to the Eaz-Lift? Especially one that incorporates improved sway control properties?” (I use that friction sway control, but its not my favourite).
I was hoping for hitch recommendations, as opposed to advice on a different tow vehicle. I have and will use the BMW X5d. That’s a non-negotiable at this juncture. Who knows about next year?
ProPride is mentioned often. Sticking with an Eaz-Lift is a cost-effective consideration. But what about other good choices? Reese Straight Line, perhaps? Blue Ox Sway Pro? Andersen?
Nonetheless, this has been really informative, and quite entertaining. Much better than Cable or DirecTV, and its free. How cool is that?
Thanks again, its nice to be here.
Rod
|
All the tow vehicle discussion aside, of the ones you have listed above, I would recommend the Reese SC above all of them for function and ease of use. The Andersen especially for your tow vehicle will not transfer enough weight.
__________________
Regards,
Steve
|
|
|
01-04-2015, 06:00 PM
|
#97
|
Vintage Kin
Fort Worth
, Texas
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 8,014
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by StillRod
My initial thought was to buy a second, heavier set of spring bars so i could re-purpose my existing Eaz-Lift hitch, but the light went off when I remembered that the hook up saddles and sway control attachment point for that hitch are welded onto the 19 foot Airstream. At that point the cost of a second Eaz-Lift hitch was about the same or less than the sum of all those parts.
Which then raised the question: “Well, since you need to buy a new hitch anyway, is there a good/better alternative to the Eaz-Lift? Especially one that incorporates improved sway control properties?” (I use that friction sway control, but its not my favourite).
I was hoping for hitch recommendations, as opposed to advice on a different tow vehicle. I have and will use the BMW X5d. That’s a non-negotiable at this juncture. Who knows about next year?
ProPride is mentioned often. Sticking with an Eaz-Lift is a cost-effective consideration. But what about other good choices? Reese Straight Line, perhaps? Blue Ox Sway Pro? Andersen?
Nonetheless, this has been really informative, and quite entertaining. Much better than Cable or DirecTV, and its free. How cool is that?
Thanks again, its nice to be here.
Rod
|
Talk to Andrew Thomson at Can Am RV to do the entire lash up of one vehicle to another. He knows the trade offs better than anyone.
|
|
|
01-04-2015, 06:09 PM
|
#98
|
2 Rivet Member
2015 25' Flying Cloud
Stillwater
, Minnesota
Join Date: Dec 2014
Posts: 61
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by slowmover
Talk to Andrew Thomson at Can Am RV to do the entire lash up of one vehicle to another. He knows the trade offs better than anyone.
|
Andy is indeed the expert on this issue, and I will contact him for his counsel.
|
|
|
01-04-2015, 07:17 PM
|
#99
|
Rivet Master
2005 39' Land Yacht 390 XL 396
Common Sense
, Texas
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 5,319
|
Might as well save your dime and just go buy another Eazilift because that's all he ever recommends.
__________________
Regards,
Steve
|
|
|
01-05-2015, 01:02 AM
|
#100
|
Rivet Master
2005 25' Safari
Salem
, Oregon
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 8,367
|
Hi, for some reason I could not open page 8 of this thread. I tried several times. So I thought that maybe if I added a post I would get page 8 and it worked. Anyone else ever have this problem? Is it the sight or my computer?
__________________
Bob 2005 Safari 25-B
"Le Petit Chateau Argent" Small Silver Castle
2000 Navigator / 2014 F-150 Eco-Boost / Equal-i-zer / P-3
YAMAHA 2400 / AIR #12144
|
|
|
|
|
Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
|
|
Thread Tools |
Search this Thread |
|
|
Display Modes |
Linear Mode
|
Posting Rules
|
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts
HTML code is Off
|
|
|
|
Recent Discussions |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|