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04-13-2015, 03:35 PM
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#41
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Huh?
1975 27' Overlander
Twin Cities
, Minnesota
Join Date: May 2003
Posts: 513
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I have the original owners manual for my 75 Overlander. On the front cover is a drawing of about a 75 big Olds or Pontiac wagon hooked up to it. .
It would have the cubes to pull it but not nearly the suspension package that even a 1500 would have. And as said, the trailer brakes should be adequate to stop itself. Also look at some old photos of the WBBCA caravans and you'll see nary a pickup in the bunch. There's nothing wrong with a bit of overkill but a 1500 is a pretty substantial TV after all.
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04-13-2015, 07:58 PM
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#42
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Rivet Master
1994 30' Excella
alexandria
, Kentucky
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 2,310
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Ultradog,
can you hit 55 mph with that Ford 3000?
__________________
Steve, Christy, Anna and Phoebe (Border Collie)
1994 Classic 30'11" Excella - rear twin
2009 Dodge 2500, 6 Speed Auto, CTD, Quad Cab, Short Bed
Hensley Arrow hitch with adjustable stinger
WBCCI # 3072
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04-14-2015, 10:34 AM
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#43
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Retired.
Currently Looking...
.
, At Large
Join Date: Jun 2003
Posts: 21,276
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PaulnGina
I'm not a golfer, but the mental picture of that is quite funny!
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"Fore!"
Swishswishswishswish.....
Plunk!
"$@:$(@()@:;$!!!!!!!!"
For those that keep track of such things, the club went further than the golf ball.
__________________
Meddle not in the affairs of dragons, for you are crunchy, and taste good with ketchup.
Terry
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04-14-2015, 11:55 AM
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#44
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Wise Elder
2010 30' Classic
Vintage Kin Owner
South of the river
, Minnesota
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 4,169
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Mmm, the days of yore with sedans pulling Airstreams, and, well, Avions.
By the late 1980s the consumerification of full size pickup trucks was well under way (but extended cabs and crew cabs were still rare), and so the tow vehicles of choice for a tri-axle Avion would have been either a 3/4 ton truck or a 3/4 ton burb.
I would say that the Sedan Towing Era ended in 1973 with the Arab Oil Embargo, which cut RV sales and RV travel basically to zero, and by the time it got better, people used pickups and burbs.
The Sedan Towing Era was marked by a number of characteristics that make it undesirable to revisit.
1) Speeds were lower. Even though speed limits were the same or higher than today, the 1960s were an era when a much wider range of vehicle speeds would be tolerated and even expected compared to today. So you could, then, drive 45 or 50 mph and it was expected, because other traffic on the road was doing the same thing. The power train of sedans available up at least until the late 1960s was weak enough that todays's towing speeds were simply not possible.
2) There were, compared to today, more crashes and more fatalities. Overmatched sedans towing large trailers were just one more hazard, along with bias ply tires, reversible center lanes, single circuit brake systems, vacuum wipers, manual drum brakes, and 6v headlights. Standards have changed with the times.
3) While there were no doubt exceptions, in practice, most of the 34-35' and larger trailers were not hauled long distances. In the 1950s/1960s these trailers were more typically moved seasonally or kept in one place more or less permanently.
4) The full-size luxury sedans used for towing long trailers were closer in construction to a pickup than today's sedans are, and they were frequently modified further for towing.
5) There did exist heavier duty burb-like vehicles then. The 3/4 ton burb itself was available starting in the late 1960s, also the IH Travelall.
I admire AndyT's work from afar and don't mean to second guess it.
But, when someone implies that: because people towed with sedans in the 1960s, it must be ok to tow with a 1/2 ton pickup now -- then I become concerned that the facts have been thrown under the bus.
__________________
To learn to see below the surface, you must adjust your altitude
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04-14-2015, 12:10 PM
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#45
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Rivet Master
2007 30' Classic
Oswego
, Illinois
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 13,655
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jammer
Mmm, the days of yore with sedans pulling Airstreams, and, well, Avions.
<snip>
But, when someone implies that: because people towed with sedans in the 1960s, it must be ok to tow with a 1/2 ton pickup now -- then I become concerned that the facts have been thrown under the bus.
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Hear,hear!
__________________
-Rich-
"If the women don't find you handsome, they should at least find you handy." - Red Green
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04-14-2015, 12:21 PM
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#46
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4 Rivet Member
Currently Looking...
z
, North Carolina
Join Date: Oct 2014
Posts: 262
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Indeed!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jammer
Mmm, the days of yore with sedans pulling Airstreams, and, well, Avions.
<snip>
But, when someone implies that: because people towed with sedans in the 1960s, it must be ok to tow with a 1/2 ton pickup now -- then I become concerned that the facts have been thrown under the bus.
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HIP HIP! Horaaaay! Well said Jammer.
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04-14-2015, 12:24 PM
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#47
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Rivet Master
Vintage Kin Owner
N/A
, N/A
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 989
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jammer
Mmm, the days of yore with sedans pulling Airstreams, and, well, Avions.
<snip>
But, when someone implies that: because people towed with sedans in the 1960s, it must be ok to tow with a 1/2 ton pickup now -- then I become concerned that the facts have been thrown under the bus.
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Very informative post. Thank you
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04-14-2015, 12:59 PM
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#48
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Huh?
1975 27' Overlander
Twin Cities
, Minnesota
Join Date: May 2003
Posts: 513
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Quote:
Originally Posted by crispyboy
Ultradog,
can you hit 55 mph with that Ford 3000?
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Ha!
It's a 4000.
No, not 55. About 15 though.
It's interesting that Airstream would have a photo/drawing of a big GM wagon on the cover of my 75 owners manual if they didn't think it would do the job.
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04-14-2015, 01:45 PM
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#49
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Rivet Master
2013 30' Classic
Greenwood
, Mississippi
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 12,111
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I saw an Oldsmobile Custom Cruiser wagon at a used car lot and thought, "Hmm..."
Sent from my iPhone using Airstream Forums
__________________
2013 Classic 30 Limited
2007 Silver Toyota Tundra Crew Max Limited 5.7 iForce
2006 Vivid Black Harley-Davidson Road King Classic
1999 Black Nissan Pathfinder LE
TAC #MS-10
WBCCI #1811, Region 6, Unit 56
Airforums #70955
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04-14-2015, 01:51 PM
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#50
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1987 Avion 34W owner
Vintage Kin Owner
Good Ol'
, USA
Join Date: Mar 2014
Posts: 2,090
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Quote:
Originally Posted by m.hony
I saw an Oldsmobile Custom Cruiser wagon at a used car lot and thought, "Hmm..."
Sent from my iPhone using Airstream Forums
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With the right suspension stuff on it to help level it out, I'd try it. Those old cars certainly had the beef under the hood and the frames to handle it.
__________________
I this great country!!!!
1987 Avion 34W
1995 Ford F250 7.3L PowerStroke
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04-14-2015, 01:52 PM
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#51
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Rivet Master
2013 30' Classic
Greenwood
, Mississippi
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 12,111
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How cool would that be?
Sent from my iPhone using Airstream Forums
__________________
2013 Classic 30 Limited
2007 Silver Toyota Tundra Crew Max Limited 5.7 iForce
2006 Vivid Black Harley-Davidson Road King Classic
1999 Black Nissan Pathfinder LE
TAC #MS-10
WBCCI #1811, Region 6, Unit 56
Airforums #70955
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04-14-2015, 02:02 PM
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#52
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Moderator
Vintage Kin Owner
...
, ...
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 11,696
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Here's a good example of too much trailer for the truck
Quote:
Originally Posted by PaulnGina
With the right suspension stuff on it to help level it out, I'd try it. Those old cars certainly had the beef under the hood and the frames to handle it.
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A Slimp Wheel is an option.
__________________
"One of the best lessons I've learned is that you don't worry about criticism from people you wouldn't seek advice from."
William C. Swinney
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04-14-2015, 02:28 PM
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#53
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Rivet Master
Currently Looking...
Mantua
, Ohio
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 7,062
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Andrew T, You test drove a competitors trailer supplied to you by a competing factory. AS had a vested interest in making the Avion appear inferior. the cheap as you call it, adjust a ride suspension us still going strong on mid eighties Avions. My 84 30p tows circles around every AS have ever owned,
Including the 25fb I recently sold. The AS bounced and jerked continually, no such problem with the Avions. I really like AS, have owned several, but credit must be given when credit use due.
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04-14-2015, 02:35 PM
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#54
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Rivet Master
2005 25' Safari
Salem
, Oregon
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 8,367
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TRizzuti
I'm pulling a 22' with an F-150 and have to admit if I were gonna do it all over I'd either have a smaller trailer or more powerful truck -- probably a more powerful truck. Just returned from an 850 mile trip south on route 285 from Denver into the Taos, New Mexico, area, across NM east on route 160, and then back north up I-25. Some of the climbs had me pushing 5,000 rpm and some of the downhills had me at 5,500 rpm. That truck did some struggling, although I averaged slightly over 13 mpg. The truck did okay, but I felt like I was abusing it at times. I had no water in the trailer, and maybe only 300 lbs of gear, but I probably had about 800 lbs in the truck counting passengers and equalizer hitch. Does this sound normal, I hope?
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Hi, your F-150 5.0 L engine should be plenty for your trailer. Unlike my Lincoln and my Ecoboost, your 5.0 gets it's torque at a much higher RPM, so just let it rev.
__________________
Bob 2005 Safari 25-B
"Le Petit Chateau Argent" Small Silver Castle
2000 Navigator / 2014 F-150 Eco-Boost / Equal-i-zer / P-3
YAMAHA 2400 / AIR #12144
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04-14-2015, 02:38 PM
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#55
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Rivet Master
2005 39' Land Yacht 390 XL 396
Common Sense
, Texas
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 5,319
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The tandem axle Avions pulled better than the three axle trailers. They used leaf springs with the axles attached in the center with an eye and allowed them to swing up and down and that's where they got their claim to independent suspension.
The problem with the three axle setup was the center axle's leaf spring was mounted with shackles both at the rear and the front of the spring. This allowed the axle to sort of find it's own angle to run. On smooth pavement, this was not a problem, but hit a series of bumps, or hit the brakes, and those center axles did all sorts of goofy things.
__________________
Regards,
Steve
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04-14-2015, 03:30 PM
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#56
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1987 Avion 34W owner
Vintage Kin Owner
Good Ol'
, USA
Join Date: Mar 2014
Posts: 2,090
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zigzagguzzi
Andrew T, You test drove a competitors trailer supplied to you by a competing factory. AS had a vested interest in making the Avion appear inferior. the cheap as you call it, adjust a ride suspension us still going strong on mid eighties Avions. My 84 30p tows circles around every AS have ever owned,
Including the 25fb I recently sold. The AS bounced and jerked continually, no such problem with the Avions. I really like AS, have owned several, but credit must be given when credit use due.
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Agreed, 100%! IMHO, Avion made a superior product. List price has nothing to do with product quality.
I'll stick with our 1987 34W, "cheap" axle setup and all. (Sure works good!) I decided on the 1987 model because of the "cheap" axle setup, as opposed to the rubber follow-on.
__________________
I this great country!!!!
1987 Avion 34W
1995 Ford F250 7.3L PowerStroke
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05-13-2015, 10:53 AM
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#57
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Vintage Kin
Fort Worth
, Texas
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 8,014
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PaulnGina
Agreed, 100%! IMHO, Avion made a superior product. List price has nothing to do with product quality.
I'll stick with our 1987 34W, "cheap" axle setup and all. (Sure works good!) I decided on the 1987 model because of the "cheap" axle setup, as opposed to the rubber follow-on.
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Have you replaced the wearing pieces? Or upgraded to better equalizers?
And AVION went to AL-KO torsion axles for the final years of production.
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05-13-2015, 11:59 AM
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#58
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1987 Avion 34W owner
Vintage Kin Owner
Good Ol'
, USA
Join Date: Mar 2014
Posts: 2,090
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Quote:
Originally Posted by slowmover
Have you replaced the wearing pieces? Or upgraded to better equalizers?
And AVION went to AL-KO torsion axles for the final years of production.
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I did inspect the wearing pieces as I was going through the brake and shock project a year ago. All looked good.
What equalizers are you referring to?
__________________
I this great country!!!!
1987 Avion 34W
1995 Ford F250 7.3L PowerStroke
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05-13-2015, 12:19 PM
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#59
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Full Time Adventurer
2007 27' International CCD FB
Nomadic
, USA
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 2,748
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Hmm....
__________________
Family of 5 exploring the USA with a Ram Power Wagon & Airstream in tow.
OUR BLOG | INSTAGRAM
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05-13-2015, 12:37 PM
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#60
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1987 Avion 34W owner
Vintage Kin Owner
Good Ol'
, USA
Join Date: Mar 2014
Posts: 2,090
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Oh, my goodness!!!!!!
__________________
I this great country!!!!
1987 Avion 34W
1995 Ford F250 7.3L PowerStroke
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