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Old 12-16-2018, 10:40 AM   #1
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2019 22' Sport
Quartzsite , Arizona
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Help With Cat Scale Numbers Please!

Heading out for first long trip with full 2019 Sport 22FB. Going to Quartzsite gem show to work so have some tools that add weight.

Note: Cat scale person was ZERO help almost hostile in playing dumb about weighing an RV rig so not 100% sure if done right and none others nearby…Pretty sure trying to drop trailer for tongue weight would not be tolerated...

TV a 2013 Tacoma TRD Sport 4x4 w/ tow package. Curb weight ~4150lbs. Tow capacity I believe ~6400lbs..

AS curb weight 3600lbs.

So here’s my numbers. Figured with their attitude the two trip provide all I can get from them.

Tanks empty of AS. Propane full. 2 batteries on a-frame.

1st

Steer axle 5840
Drive Axle 4060
Trailer 0 (obviously not on scale)


2nd
Steer axle 60lbs (obviously not on scale much)
Drive Axle 5740
Trailer 4040



Took to AS service dept and they said hitch “bowed” down a little. Moved hitch (Equalizer) up one bolt hole and more level with slight bow up if anything.

I’m crunching numbers on my own but since first time not confident in my results.

Anyone have a lot of experience and able to explain if safe or what I should do if not?

Thanks!

Warren
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Old 12-16-2018, 10:59 AM   #2
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2014 23' FB Flying Cloud
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My takeaways are twofold - first, at 9,900 pounds the rig is 2,000 pounds heavier than you thought it was. Second, the scale could not resolve the per-axle weights; just the whole weight. It's not possible for the three axles to have the individual weights shown. Zero and sixty pounds are not possible.

Prior to hookup of the trailer measure the wheel arch heights of the truck.

When the hitch is hooked up, and the rig is parked on flat ground, with the weight distributing bars loose, measure the wheel arch heights of the tow vehicle.

The truck manufacturer probably gives guidance on how much weight distributing force you can apply, as measured by changes in the wheel arch heights. As you tighten the weight distribution bars you will see the rear wheel arches rise and the front ones go down. For my truck (a GM 2500 series) they suggest applying weight distribution that brings the front end to about an inch of the original height.

I suggest you drive the rig at that setting and at slightly lighter settings and see how it feels. I found my trailer, which is the same as yours, pulled better with less tension on the bars.

Here is something no one talks about on these forums: As you increase the tension on weight distributing bars, in order to balance the tow vehicle front to rear, you significantly increase the friction in the system and that will accelerate wear when towing. The optimum weight distribution setting may not be the optimal tow setting, when all aspects are considered.
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Old 12-16-2018, 11:03 AM   #3
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Here how I did it. I weighed the truck with a full tank of gas without trailer. Make sure that the trucks axles are on different CAT scale pads, if you look close you can see the different pads for the axles. So truck only on two different pads gives truck total weight and individual axle weights. Now go connect the trailer and the hitch however you plan to tow. Pull that up onto the CAT scale and ensure you have all three axles, both truck and the trailer on different weigh pads. This will give you total weight and individual axle weights. Then you can do the math and figure out tongue weight. YouTube has a lot of videos on how to weigh on CAT scale.

Edit. I’m not sure you can use the numbers you got because it shows your rear axle weighing @1700 lbs more which seems way off for a 22sport. My tongue weight measurement on my 22 was way below 500 lbs.
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Old 12-16-2018, 11:15 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by johnrobison View Post
My takeaways are twofold - first, at 9,900 pounds the rig is 2,000 pounds heavier than you thought it was. Second, the scale could not resolve the per-axle weights; just the whole weight. It's not possible for the three axles to have the individual weights shown. Zero and sixty pounds are not possible.

Prior to hookup of the trailer measure the wheel arch heights of the truck.

When the hitch is hooked up, and the rig is parked on flat ground, with the weight distributing bars loose, measure the wheel arch heights of the tow vehicle.

The truck manufacturer probably gives guidance on how much weight distributing force you can apply, as measured by changes in the wheel arch heights. As you tighten the weight distribution bars you will see the rear wheel arches rise and the front ones go down. For my truck (a GM 2500 series) they suggest applying weight distribution that brings the front end to about an inch of the original height.

I suggest you drive the rig at that setting and at slightly lighter settings and see how it feels. I found my trailer, which is the same as yours, pulled better with less tension on the bars.

Here is something no one talks about on these forums: As you increase the tension on weight distributing bars, in order to balance the tow vehicle front to rear, you significantly increase the friction in the system and that will accelerate wear when towing. The optimum weight distribution setting may not be the optimal tow setting, when all aspects are considered.
Empty TV and AS was level with adjusted Equalizer brand weight distribution hitch.

On level ground it was down 1" at front. Adjustment raised front to level.

The TV front end was noticeably higher but now level.

I'm really surprised it indicates I have a 2000 lb + load! I used to carry almost the same load in the Tacoma sans food and 160 lbs of tables and EZ-Up canopy...

I have most of the heavy stuff in bed of truck but one 100lb tool box in AS against bed as the only place it would fit. I may move that forward of rear axle on TV today....drop another 25-50lbs off in storage (I found a few boxes of stuff I didn't want to take as I vacated my rental...)

I suppose the Cat scale results do indicate an acceptable weight and just a matter of distribution at this point... right?

Thanks!

Warren
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Old 12-16-2018, 11:31 AM   #5
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I do not see much utility to the weights you have. You need 2 CAT weighings if you are going to balance the hitch from them. One of the truck front and rear axles unhitched and another of the truck front and rear axles with the trailer hitched. These 2 weighings will tell you how much weight is restored to the front axle by the hitch. You are looking for 50% to possibly 100 % weight restoration.

You can do it by measuring. Level does not really enter into the weight restoration. You want level also but that must come from the proper ball height, not how much weight you transfer. Park the truck with the trailer over the ball but jacked up so it is not touching. Measure accurately the distance from the center of the front wheel well arch to a block of wood or brick left on the ground under each wheel well. Then lower the trailer down on the ball and attach the WD system. Then measure the distance from the blocks to the wheel well arch again. You are looking to be within about 1/2" to maybe 0" difference. Then the hitch is set "about right" and you can go weigh it for a final check.

And how it drives hitched is also important and might override a few lbs weight transfer or a few tenths of inch restoration.

You might try another CAT scale. All you really have to do is drive the rig hitched across the scales and then drop the trailer and run the truck back across the scales. The printout will give you each axle weight independently. Once you have the truck weight without the trailer you do not really have to repeat that as long as the truck is loaded the same. You can check each refinement of the hitch just by making a pass with the rig hitched.
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Old 12-16-2018, 02:55 PM   #6
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CAT Scale Runs for WD

1st truck alone...
2nd TV & AS no WD set.
3rd TV & AS with WD set.

Notice on the third ticket that the TV front axle weight is just 100lb less than it is without the Airstream. (it may take several weights to determine the proper WD setting)

Bob
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Old 12-16-2018, 04:01 PM   #7
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Thanks!

After considering it more and dropping off some gear in storage and down to bare minimum for what I need....


TV has large heavy table and awning. No choice on those; that's the only spot they can fit
I have clothes and light food (cereal grains etc) in front of AS then one box books and a couple 15lb boxes of sundries.

Various lighter gear in pantry and in dinette.....

Only really movable cargo is...

One heavy box ~100lbs max that I can now leave against bed bed or put over AS axle (I removed a cushion from dinette) or in TV over axle or further back.

So I guess it's the 100lb box and Equalizer bar adjustment my only options...

Oh should I use water tank as a way to equalize? Empty now...

Thanks,

Warren
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Old 12-16-2018, 04:44 PM   #8
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Warren,

Where is your FWT, over the axle? Are you close to GVWR?
It's also important that your rig is balanced and level.

We boondock a lot, our tank is over the axles, so little effect on balance, we always travel full FW.
Bob
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Old 12-16-2018, 09:12 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ROBERT CROSS View Post
Warren,

Where is your FWT, over the axle? Are you close to GVWR?
It's also important that your rig is balanced and level.

We boondock a lot, our tank is over the axles, so little effect on balance, we always travel full FW.
Bob
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FWT is between axle and front, closer to axle but not over....

Thanks,

W
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Old 12-16-2018, 09:29 PM   #10
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That may not be as bad as you think, you can balance easier by moving your load and adjusting wd to transfer enough weight.

In our case we need the FW full 'cuz we BD a lot, so we have to pay closer attention to AS axle weights.

Bob
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Old 12-17-2018, 11:07 AM   #11
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Don't over-think this. Set your WD hitch up properly, with TV and AS loaded as you would tow it. Everything should be level. You're good to go. Don't worry, tow happy.
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Old 12-17-2018, 11:42 AM   #12
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Towing with a Tacoma I suggest you get accurate weights, the ones suggested by Robert Cross to ensure you are transferring enough weight. I use a 2016 Tacoma to tow our FC20, a slightly heavier trailer than yours, but in the end our Gross Weight is nearly identical at 9920 lbs. That includes TV, Trailer, all camping and recreational gear including two bikes, me, my wife and our dog.

Without WD engaged my drive axle is 3400 lbs, 120 lbs over the Rear-GAWR of 3280. With WD it's 2800. Besides getting the weight back to the front axle to improve handling, GAWRs are one of the ratings you don't want to mess with or exceed.
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Old 12-17-2018, 06:45 PM   #13
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Originally Posted by Bill M. View Post
I do not see much utility to the weights you have. You need 2 CAT weighings if you are going to balance the hitch from them. One of the truck front and rear axles unhitched and another of the truck front and rear axles with the trailer hitched. These 2 weighings will tell you how much weight is restored to the front axle by the hitch. You are looking for 50% to possibly 100 % weight restoration.

You can do it by measuring.
Level does not really enter into the weight restoration. You want level also but that must come from the proper ball height, not how much weight you transfer. Park the truck with the trailer over the ball but jacked up so it is not touching. Measure accurately the distance from the center of the front wheel well arch to a block of wood or brick left on the ground under each wheel well. Then lower the trailer down on the ball and attach the WD system. Then measure the distance from the blocks to the wheel well arch again. You are looking to be within about 1/2" to maybe 0" difference. Then the hitch is set "about right" and you can go weigh it for a final check.

And how it drives hitched is also important and might override a few lbs weight transfer or a few tenths of inch restoration.

You might try another CAT scale. All you really have to do is drive the rig hitched across the scales and then drop the trailer and run the truck back across the scales. The printout will give you each axle weight independently. Once you have the truck weight without the trailer you do not really have to repeat that as long as the truck is loaded the same. You can check each refinement of the hitch just by making a pass with the rig hitched.

Measuring was my start point. Just make sure the TT & TV is loaded like day 1.


We're fortunate to have an free Ag scale 1 mile from our storage. Nobody ever there so a good change to let tire right tire...move stuff around to see the effect if any on the TW and tire load. I always wondered about the accurate but then one day had to wait for someone ahead of me. Seems it was the state doing an inspection and certification. I
m good. Plus I really didn't want to navigate the maze of the I-5 truck stop and cat scale (as noted above). The down side is it was a one axel scale...but wasn't in a hurry and actually found it easier to try this or that weight load



You also might might check with the State/county/county ag department depending on your location. We have 3 or 4 in our area. You also might try some moving and storage companies. They still charge but understand their a little friendlier and no where as busy as the Cat Scale crowd.
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Old 12-17-2018, 10:00 PM   #14
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BTW, i don't want go play down the importance of the scale weight, especially when determining the individual left tire/right tire load for inflation and actual weight. However, IMO following the measurements in the hitch setup instructions are the easiest key to steering control and the tt weight/gvwr to me is better to assess tt & tv braking as well as tv towing capacities.

JC during a separate discussion indicated my actual axle rating was 6k but the gawr still 5000. so for me that says it isn't solely how much the axle can carry, but also how much the tt brakes are designed to stop. Same applies to tv towing/braking capacity.

Once the axle was weighed i realized my normal load was well under limits and the l/r loading was within a close tolerance. So when i take a longer and likely more loaded trip, i'll weigh the axle but not the distribution. I should also say that we generally leave the kitchen sink at home and travel on the lighter side...partly due to traveling style, but also as the tv simply does not have what i would term as a spacious cargo bay even in consideration of tire/rim upgrades that would support a greater tv load capacity.
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