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Old 09-11-2014, 08:26 AM   #43
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Originally Posted by Silvery Moon View Post
Thanks for that input, much appreciated. We are under both GAWRs, we are way under the official GCWR, and we are well under GVWR for the trailer. So, maybe we should just stop worrying so much, because our towing experience has been stellar.

It does sound suspiciously like a subtitle to Dr. Strangelove, though: "How I learned to stop worrying and love my tow vehicle."

In any case, it's probably a good idea to regularly go through the trailer and toss out any redundant stuff, put heavy things where they will generate the best balance, keep the fresh water tank mostly empty unless we know for sure we're going to need it at our next stop, and keep looking for ways to improve the towing experience. I'm glad we made that effort, even if we decide to stop worrying so much about the TV's GVWR.
We appear to have a sudden outbreak of sensible!

To use the Dr Strangelove subtitle is pure genius and I may just have to adopt it as my signature on here. Thanks, Mooney.
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Old 09-11-2014, 09:11 AM   #44
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Im still confused. Can anyone tell me can my 96 Suburban 3/4 ton 7.4 Liter tow a 2011-2013 30 ft Signature International? Safely and can it stop it safely? I currently have a 25 CCD International but am considering upsizing to the 28 or 30 Signature. Everyone says yes cept for one dealer? so im really confused. Just a basic yes or no will be helpful thanks.
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Old 09-11-2014, 11:37 AM   #45
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Nicely put. I was just thinking that we obsess too much about weight and ratings when we shouldn't.
There is more in involved in Mfg weight ratings than just the maximum axle ratings.The suspension parts such as Bolts,mounts springs,a-arms,tire ratings and wheel ratings also come into play along with the braking system just to name a few have their own threshold for breakage when overloaded.

These ratings contrary to popular belief on this forum are not just pulled out of the air as each vehicle has posted by the manufacturer its own unique max payload capabilities calculated by the options ordered on the vehicle.

GVWR is the maximum weight that the vehicle can weigh loaded on a scale this includes everything driver ,passengers,cargo,fluids,maps,water bottles etc.

Gross combined vehicle weight ratings are the maximum the tow vehicle (loaded as shown above) and the loaded trailer including the hitch and fluids can weigh to stay within the designed safety specification.Primararly this rating addresses stopping and turning ability.

Max payload is just that anything that you put in or on the vehicle such as passengers,dog,cargo,WD hitch etc.Some manufacturers such as Ford allow 150 lbs of weight for the driver along with fluids.So if you weigh 220lbs for example 70lbs must be subtracted from max payload allowed.Any accessories you add to you tow vehicles must be subtracted also.

Maximum tow rating. This is the new gimmick that manufacturers are keying in on to sell you on the fact that their vehicles are powerful but do not mean to much in reality if you have exceeded your payload capacity with a heavy tongue weight.
So for example if maximum tow rating is 7400lbs and your trailer only weighs 6300 fully loaded and ready to camp and lets say your maximum payload rating label in the door for your vehicle is 1400lbs.
Now lets calculate your payload weight.You weigh 200lbs and your wife weighs 160lbs your hich weighs 70lbs your Honda gens weigh 90lbs and you bring 5 gals of gas 30lbs
now you throw a few essentials in the truck say 50lbs.
That is 400lbs.Now add the actual tongue weight of your trailer ready to camp with full LP tanks and stuff loaded in the trailer.
You will need to weigh the vehicle without the trailer attached.Then hook the trailer on and weigh again.Subtract the trucks weight from the hitched weight now you know the true tongue weight.
Add the true tongue weight lets say its 1100lbs to our example above of 400lbs and we are at a payload of 1500lbs on a vehicle with a max vehicle payload of rating of 1400lbs.
Although some consider vehicle manufacturers ratings to be rubbish or a conspiracy to sell bigger vehicles or just plain meaningless mumbo jumbo.

All I can say is I have been in the automobile business for almost 40 years and have learned that numbers do have meaning. Things do break when pushed past their limits and well things just happen..........My 2cents
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Old 09-11-2014, 12:19 PM   #46
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Originally Posted by Moflash View Post
There is more in involved in Mfg weight ratings than just the maximum axle ratings.The suspension parts such as Bolts,mounts springs,a-arms,tire ratings and wheel ratings also come into play along with the braking system just to name a few have their own threshold for breakage when overloaded.

These ratings contrary to popular belief on this forum are not just pulled out of the air as each vehicle has posted by the manufacturer its own unique max payload capabilities calculated by the options ordered on the vehicle.

GVWR is the maximum weight that the vehicle can weigh loaded on a scale this includes everything driver ,passengers,cargo,fluids,maps,water bottles etc.

Gross combined vehicle weight ratings are the maximum the tow vehicle (loaded as shown above) and the loaded trailer including the hitch and fluids can weigh to stay within the designed safety specification.Primararly this rating addresses stopping and turning ability.

Max payload is just that anything that you put in or on the vehicle such as passengers,dog,cargo,WD hitch etc.Some manufacturers such as Ford allow 150 lbs of weight for the driver along with fluids.So if you weigh 220lbs for example 70lbs must be subtracted from max payload allowed.Any accessories you add to you tow vehicles must be subtracted also.

Maximum tow rating. This is the new gimmick that manufacturers are keying in on to sell you on the fact that their vehicles are powerful but do not mean to much in reality if you have exceeded your payload capacity with a heavy tongue weight.
So for example if maximum tow rating is 7400lbs and your trailer only weighs 6300 fully loaded and ready to camp and lets say your maximum payload rating label in the door for your vehicle is 1400lbs.
Now lets calculate your payload weight.You weigh 200lbs and your wife weighs 160lbs your hich weighs 70lbs your Honda gens weigh 90lbs and you bring 5 gals of gas 30lbs
now you throw a few essentials in the truck say 50lbs.
That is 400lbs.Now add the actual tongue weight of your trailer ready to camp with full LP tanks and stuff loaded in the trailer.
You will need to weigh the vehicle without the trailer attached.Then hook the trailer on and weigh again.Subtract the trucks weight from the hitched weight now you know the true tongue weight.
Add the true tongue weight lets say its 1100lbs to our example above of 400lbs and we are at a payload of 1500lbs on a vehicle with a max vehicle payload of rating of 1400lbs.
Although some consider vehicle manufacturers ratings to be rubbish or a conspiracy to sell bigger vehicles or just plain meaningless mumbo jumbo.

All I can say is I have been in the automobile business for almost 40 years and have learned that numbers do have meaning. Things do break when pushed past their limits and well things just happen..........My 2cents

This is how I understood it and did my calculations before hand....I am not an expert

I still need to hit the scales though but based on my estimations and ranges I'm quite sure I am good to go

I do need to do what Paula said and pick out a few things not needed .

I do still want to weigh at cat scales


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Old 09-11-2014, 12:34 PM   #47
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Originally Posted by LiLNomad View Post
Im still confused. Can anyone tell me can my 96 Suburban 3/4 ton 7.4 Liter tow a 2011-2013 30 ft Signature International? Safely and can it stop it safely? I currently have a 25 CCD International but am considering upsizing to the 28 or 30 Signature. Everyone says yes cept for one dealer? so im really confused. Just a basic yes or no will be helpful thanks.
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It should be able to what are the specs ...2wd or 4x4....Oil cooler?...gear ratio?
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Old 09-11-2014, 12:41 PM   #48
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We use an expensive to buy and operate 1/2 ton pickup, load lightly to travel all over the country (now months on end) as we have for the past 50 years and weighed the combo full once. Payload and ratings are the least of our concern.
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Old 09-11-2014, 02:18 PM   #49
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Help me understand towing weight

Ignorance is bliss,but it doesn't mean what you are doing is correct or safe.Good luck Doug


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Old 09-11-2014, 03:40 PM   #50
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its 2 wheel drive..not sure bout an oil cooler...its previous owner used it to tow trailers filled with equine equipment...I know it has all the towing stuff already and was ready to go..any other questions..break it down in girls terms as im still new.
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Old 09-11-2014, 03:57 PM   #51
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Huh? Those who load a light truck lightly (or heavy truck heavy), check the combo's weights fully loaded, and press on are not ignorant, incorrect, nor unsafe.
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Old 09-11-2014, 03:58 PM   #52
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Yes you can safely pull (you have a 454 Cubic inch big block motor which is the largest built) and stop the larger trailers mentioned as this is a 3/4 ton which is equipped with larger brakes,rear differential and HD suspension.With the age I can not look up the max payload for your Suburban.There should be a sticker on the right side when the drivers door is opened.If not it may be in the glove box along with all the options that came on your truck which is nice to know.
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Old 09-11-2014, 04:01 PM   #53
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its 2 wheel drive..not sure bout an oil cooler...its previous owner used it to tow trailers filled with equine equipment...I know it has all the towing stuff already and was ready to go..any other questions..break it down in girls terms as im still new.
Thanks
LilNomad
Yes you can safely pull and stop the larger trailers mentioned as this is a 3/4 ton which is equipped with a 454 Cubic inch big block motor which is the largest built with larger brakes,rear differential and HD suspension.With the age I can not look up the max payload for your Suburban.There should be a sticker on the right side when the drivers door is opened.If not it may be in the glove box along with all the options that came on your truck which is nice to know.It being a Suburban made for hauling people you should have a good payload rating but I would check it anyways.
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Old 09-11-2014, 04:45 PM   #54
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Huh? Those who load a light truck lightly (or heavy truck heavy), check the combo's weights fully loaded, and press on are not ignorant, incorrect, nor unsafe.
Most folks don't even know or are aware of payload, let alone their axle and tire ratings. I think the average consumer who sets out to buy something to tow, probably only ever hears about Tow Rating.

Then, when someone learns about payload, one of three things happens.

1.) They freak out and go buy a 3/4 ton

2.) They become a payload nazi and post all over forums about payload ratings

3.) They become educated on the subject matter, learn about their axle and tire ratings, what payload numbers actually are, and learn to do math and use the scale for themselves. They end up being less stressed and they're backs won't hurt as much as the guy who bought the dully to tow his Bambi.



Just ask someone to explain how tow ratings are determined.
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Old 09-11-2014, 05:30 PM   #55
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Thanks MoFlash. will take a look. My truck only has 48k original miles so i want to keep it. Folks were lined up trying to buy it from me at Alumafandango hehe.
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Old 09-11-2014, 05:54 PM   #56
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Originally Posted by BoldAdventure View Post
Most folks don't even know or are aware of payload, let alone their axle and tire ratings. I think the average consumer who sets out to buy something to tow, probably only ever hears about Tow Rating.

Then, when someone learns about payload, one of three things happens.

1.) They freak out and go buy a 3/4 ton

2.) They become a payload nazi and post all over forums about payload ratings

3.) They become educated on the subject matter, learn about their axle and tire ratings, what payload numbers actually are, and learn to do math and use the scale for themselves. They end up being less stressed and they're backs won't hurt as much as the guy who bought the dully to tow his Bambi.



Just ask someone to explain how tow ratings are determined.
Well put! I agree.

But there is also the type person who does little or no research buys the wrong size truck with too low of a payload capacity and gets on a informative tow forum with new people trying to learn and tries to convince others when they ask a honest question that this is the real way to go.

It is the seat of the pants approach to towing. Not good for the forum.
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