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Old 05-04-2019, 08:51 AM   #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DKB_SATX View Post
Where was the travel trailer in your story?
Point is, insurance folks and manufacturer are looking to "avoid" paying for a claim... And being outside the vehicle's specifications could void any claims being paid... This may be towing an AS, overloaded TV, or even modifying a vehicle beyond factory specifications.

Better question for you; would you rather be "with-in the mfg. spec limits" or take a chance?? An AS and TV is a lot of $$ to gamble with, IMHO...but, you can of course, do as you will.
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Old 05-04-2019, 09:04 AM   #42
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Your example would be relevant if the vehicle was loaded over the GVWR, AND the insurer declined coverage. Since neither was apparently the case, how is this an example of coverage being declined based on loading?

It is perfectly reasonable for investigators to want to understand what may have contributed to a crash.

As an aside, the most relevant info for a roll over was most likely whether they had exceeded the roof rack load limit, as well as their travel speed at the time of the crash.
Your correct in your assumptions; the insurance company and Ford were doing their best to ascertain what contributed to the accident; was vehicle overloaded including pod on top. There were 5 people in the vehicle, ski's, and gear on top. The vehicle was determined not to be overloaded; wind was big a factor but, also remember--Firestone tires installed by Ford were having serious lawsuit issues at that time.

I was deposed as was my son and the passengers, but we did not have to go to court. Ford and my insurance company both paid for the damages and medical; I am not sure who paid most. I do remember my insurance did not go up. As I mentioned in my previous post, better to be within mfg specs should something occur...That is my preference. You can obviously run the way you want with your rig...I try to be smart; and safe when I travel; overcautious?? Yea, I hope so.
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Old 05-05-2019, 03:23 AM   #43
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We have a 28’ International. We started out with a F150 and finally got a F350.
Safety, safety, safety! This should be your #1 priority. If you want a big trailer, you MUST upgrade your vehicle. Going down a hill would scare me enough to change my vehicle.
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Old 05-05-2019, 07:27 AM   #44
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You MUST? 🤔
If you think you need a 350 you probably do, in reality you most likely don't.

OP...get what you have set up correctly and try it...you may be pleasantly surprised.👍

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Old 05-05-2019, 09:24 AM   #45
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For what its worth....
We had a GMC Max tow 6.2, 10 speed and pulled a 31 classic from east to west and down Mex 1 to Cabo. We had excellent stability, plenty of power and awesome braking. The trailer has hydraulic disc brakes so the truck never saw any additional brake load. We ran that combination for 100,000 miles/160,000 km then bought a 34 classic slide and another 6.0 max tow. The truck pulls like a dream and the 34 rides smoothly in tow.
I have 6 Michelin Defenders on the trailer and 4 more ,10 plys on the truck. I run a Hensley hitch and again have three axles with 6 Dexter disc brakes.
As was indicated before, hook up to your trailer, do a good hitch set-up and try it out. Then make a decision. IMHO you will be very happy with the combo!
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Old 05-05-2019, 01:32 PM   #46
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Insurance, too small, its scary, not enough brakes... FUD.

This is all pretty easy really. OP is all over the numbers and is going in with both eyes open to the limitations. The facts say keep it under GCWR and with a proper weight distributing hitch keep all the axles under their individual ratings. Keep your CAT tickets in the glove box to prove you are legal.

No arguing that a 1500 has less ability than a 3/4ton or higher. No reasonable argument that using a truck up to its manufacturer specified limits is unsafe.

Opinions abound for how setups that plot under the curve are ‘good’ or ‘bad’. These trailers pull nice. It feels good to drive a big truck and pull a trailer with a good setup. Many will point out that they are satisfied with that. Others may indicate that they were not comfortable with the same setup. Driving a setup that you are not comfortable with is not a great idea in any case.

In no case should you tow something outside the limits from the manufacturer. I personally don’t give much credit to payload preferring to work off axle ratings as the weight distributing hitch is all about balancing weight across those. The payload numbers are based off the other numbers anyway and in my mind are more of an easy way to understand quickly what they all mean when working together—don’t stick 2000lbs of soil/rock in the bed with a 1500lbs payload—not gonna work.

Remember that the point is to get out and enjoy things and not obsess about optimizing every last detail. (This last comment is huge for me as my personality doesn’t like to let that stuff go)
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Old 05-05-2019, 02:28 PM   #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mtbackpacker View Post
Remember that the point is to get out and enjoy things and not obsess about optimizing every last detail. (This last comment is huge for me as my personality doesn’t like to let that stuff go)

No issues with that. Just know that for some of us, optimizing every last detail beforehand allows us to get out and enjoy things with a lot less worry.

This isn’t a comment on the TV the OP should select—I agree wholeheartedly that a sensible plan is to use what you have before deciding whether it makes sense for you to move up. If the numbers are not convincing in and of themselves, a little personal experience will tell you a lot more than a bunch of opinions on the Intertubes.
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Old 07-14-2019, 08:29 PM   #48
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As it relates to your original inquiry, you will find yourself much more relaxed in a 2500...

There are things about heavy duty trucks that average people do not know.....

They are rated heavy duty, because they can perform more labor intensive tasks, safely, and without destroying themselves.....

I M O, if your finances are tight, that is all the more reason for you to get a bigger truck, because, a bigger truck can perform the same task longer, without tearing up.
That means you will be dealing with lower maintenance costs long term, which costs less cash out of pocket, long term.

This topic is very common on airforums, and there are always a host of opinions, and thats fine, folks can try to make whatever setup they have work, but for roughly 4 to 5,000.00 more than a light duty truck, you can move up to a heavy duty truck.....
You get heavier duty axles, brakes, suspension, transmission, cooling systems, differential, more vehicle weight, and more capability, which means it will perform the task longer, without tearing up. You are about to haul a big camper...you need the mass of a heavy duty truck to do it safely and without getting nervous every time a 30 mph wind blows.....and yes, you will see an enormous difference between a 150, and a 250, when the 30, 40, 50 mph wind blows.....

Your 150 has plenty of power...horsepower is not the issue......but look at it this way......you could put a 450 hp motor in an el camino, install some air shocks, and it would pull your camper just fine, until you had to stop, or swerve, or until the wind blew.....then you are dead. The extended capability of your vehicle as a machine, will be your limiting factor......It will pull it and probably get totally decent gas milage, because it has plenty of horsepower, but horsepower is only one piece of the package.

Another illustration is to consider a tractor trailer.......

An average loaded trailer is about 40,000 lbs.....
So guess how much the average big rig weighs?
.......?
The answer is about 40,000 lbs......They intentionally make them heavy, so that they can safely haul 40,000 lb. loads. THose trucks in many cases only have 300-400 hp....

The hp is only part of the package...... weight, brakes,huge cooling ability, heavy duty driveline, make a total package.
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Old 07-14-2019, 08:40 PM   #49
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And before some smartalec starts running his mouth, (plenty of those lurking around) I have hauled heavy loads from one end of the USA to the other, in every condition conceivable, always with heavy duty vehicles, and have never, not one time, had a failure on the road, while hauling. Because I never, ever, tried to haul a big load, with a light duty vehicle......Occasionally my e350 vans were overkill, or my F350 trucks were overkill, but then, I never got into a dangerous situation, ever. And , I never, ever, had to replace an engine or transmission, in any of those vehicles...in fact, they were all sold in working condition, with 200,- 250,000 miles on them....all on original drivetrains.
...and some of those loads were with big flatbeds and two tractors loaded, or tons of equipment, etc......

Heavy duty vehicles prove their worth when you drop a big load on the hitch.
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Old 07-14-2019, 10:27 PM   #50
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An tractor AND AN EMPTY TRAILER weigh close to 40k lb. The tractor alone is more like 18k lb. An 18k lb truck tows a ~15k lb trailer with ~45k lb of cargo for the ballpark 80k lb total. The tractor alone is around a quarter of the total combined weight, so that comparison is not quite saying what you are trying to make it say. If you want an HD pickup, buy one, drive it, enjoy it. If you want to sing its praises, fine. There's no sense in silly misinformation though.
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Old 07-15-2019, 04:43 AM   #51
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A fifth wheel articulated rig is not the same as conventional towing with the connection point well behind the rear drive axle. The dynamics is quite different and so is the requirements to maintain stability.
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Old 07-15-2019, 05:10 AM   #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mkcurtiss View Post
And before some smartalec starts running his mouth, (plenty of those lurking around) I have hauled heavy loads from one end of the USA to the other, in every condition conceivable, always with heavy duty vehicles, and have never, not one time, had a failure on the road, while hauling. Because I never, ever, tried to haul a big load, with a light duty vehicle......Occasionally my e350 vans were overkill, or my F350 trucks were overkill, but then, I never got into a dangerous situation, ever. And , I never, ever, had to replace an engine or transmission, in any of those vehicles...in fact, they were all sold in working condition, with 200,- 250,000 miles on them....all on original drivetrains.
...and some of those loads were with big flatbeds and two tractors loaded, or tons of equipment, etc......

Heavy duty vehicles prove their worth when you drop a big load on the hitch.
Airstreams are among the lightest trailers made.
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Old 07-15-2019, 06:13 AM   #53
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Another part of the equation is the route you take. Having a TV that can be limited in stopping your trailer is one of the factors here. You can say to yourself, "I can carefully plan routes that avoid the steep grades so I need not worry about getting into that situation". This is false. You cannot predict with any certainty the roads in this country. Most heavy grades are in the West, but I've been down the steepest grades (10%) from Lauray Virginia to the east and what a surprise that was!

My second concern is that you gain a false sense of security with the smaller truck. You may become quite proficient rolling down the switchbacks on Rt 12, but what happens when the truck and trailer in front of you rolls and you have little choice with what to do? We sometimes say we will always drive very carefully and slowly to avoid that situation, but we begin abandoning some of the "safety" concerns when we have a line of 50 cars and trucks behind us all wanting to get around the "careful" driver. You have nowhere to pull off so you accommodate and try to speed up. Yea, we've all done that.

If this is your first experience with living in and pulling a trailer, there are better ways to gain experience. My wife and I started with an F-150 and a 27' international and enjoyed the heck out of it. We sold the 27 for what we paid for it 2 years later. We learned a lot pulling the 27. When we moved up to the Classic (and an F-250 diesel) we were in for a surprise as the three feet affected our entire style of traveling. It is longer and requires more attention to detail. Pulling is similar, maneuvering and parking are not. It's long and it's heavy. We don't make as many frequent stops and we pay attention more on the road.

Remember, you are not just driving yourself around, you're driving your family. It's important you make the right decision. Your first good start was to ask here. I don't know how old you are and how much experience you have, but most of us started with smaller trailers and moved up (some down!). If you have time, start gaining experience rather than "toys" and you will be better off in the long run. Your truck will be fine for the next model down. I hate to see you get discouraged and question your new lifestyle when driving a rig that is already at its limit gets in the way of your dream. It does not make for a good day on those dreaded long drives across the desert with 70 mph winds or going up and down mountain passes with patches of ice and 25 car pileups. You cannot control the roads in this county.
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Old 07-15-2019, 08:04 AM   #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DKB_SATX View Post
An tractor AND AN EMPTY TRAILER weigh close to 40k lb. The tractor alone is more like 18k lb. An 18k lb truck tows a ~15k lb trailer with ~45k lb of cargo for the ballpark 80k lb total. The tractor alone is around a quarter of the total combined weight, so that comparison is not quite saying what you are trying to make it say. If you want an HD pickup, buy one, drive it, enjoy it. If you want to sing its praises, fine. There's no sense in silly misinformation though.
In rereading my wording I can see I was not clear.....

My point was , there is 40,000 lb. of rig, hauling 40,000 lb of cargo......
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Old 07-15-2019, 11:33 AM   #55
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The TW in the factory brochures is of limited utility. What should be considered is Loaded TW transferred to the TV. This.can be very different for similar ASs.

As an example, folks on this Forum report loaded TW of 1100 ish pounds for a 25FB and 800 ish pounds for a 25RB . Both have similar factory TW numbers...Difference is where the storage, grey\black tanks, 2nd AC, and HW tank is located

A 25RB might work within a half ton truck's limits . Flip the layout and the 25FB might not
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