GMC 1500 AT4 2019 & Airstream Classic 30RB 2019

[mtbackpacker]

Lots of opinions here but here is one from someone with that exact truck pulling a 25FBT. The truck works perfectly with the 6.2/10speed. Further the truck has the same 9.76 rear axle as the max tow and seems to be conservatively rated so there isn’t much concern loading up to the RAWR limits.

Cat scale verified I am under RAWR and come in at 12,500 GCWR.

I get 11.3mpg average towing here in the mountains but on the flats without wind I see 14.

These threads always bring out the big diesel/big truck fans and sure they are great but not for everyone. With the current emissions requirements I will not own another diesel. The HD truck gasoline/transmission options are nearly a decade behind what you get in a half ton right now (my opinion, yours may differ and that’s ok too!)

[steverino]

Just one more datapoint - 2018 Classic 30
Outfitted for camping, with fresh water tank @ 100%, grey and black tanks @ 50%, propane @ 75%. Net weight 9100 lbs, 950 lbs on the tongue. Yes I could have reduced weight by about 240 lbs if I had dumped before crossing the CAT scale.

Since then, I’ve added solar plus 160 lbs of battery to the rig. Most of that extra 160 lbs will ride on the tongue. So, until I go back to the CAT, I am assuming the rig is weighing in the range of 9000-9260 lbs, with tongue weight around 1110.

[gypsydad]

Originally Posted by mikebrownvb

Hi Larry,

Thank you for your insight.

I agree a 2500 would be ideal but really hope I can make it work with the 1500.

The AT4 is a pretty nice truck it's brand new and fully loaded.

Cheers!

Hi Mike,
Your getting some good advice. I share your desire for the new 30' Classic models. Heck, just the couch got us going on selling our 28' and moving up! As you know, the investment is high on a new one for sure, so we are just looking at improving our L-couch cushions for now. If your considering not getting the Classic; instead another model like the Flying Cloud, perhaps consider the 28'; less expensive, 2 feet shorter, roomy with separate dinette and lounge, and the twin model has plenty storage outside and inside for us.

One thing I was not clear on was your payload with your 1/2T; you say it is 1446lbs; was that door sticker on your vehicle? What ever you decide, as mentioned in post #12, pay attention to the tongue weight; could be over 1100# when you get to a scale...that only leaves 340lbs for you and passengers and any gear you want to carry in the back.

As some others mention, if your careful, the 1/2T can surely pull a 30 Classic fine, if you can't upsize for now. Just be mindful of your limitations and you should be fine.

[mikebrownvb]

Originally Posted by steverino

Just one more datapoint - 2018 Classic 30
Outfitted for camping, with fresh water tank @ 100%, grey and black tanks @ 50%, propane @ 75%. Net weight 9100 lbs, 950 lbs on the tongue. Yes I could have reduced weight by about 240 lbs if I had dumped before crossing the CAT scale.

Since then, I’ve added solar plus 160 lbs of battery to the rig. Most of that extra 160 lbs will ride on the tongue. So, until I go back to the CAT, I am assuming the rig is weighing in the range of 9000-9260 lbs, with tongue weight around 1110.

Hi Steverino,

Thank you for sharing those real-world numbers with me.

This information is very helpful.

[mikebrownvb]

Originally Posted by gypsydad

Hi Mike,
Your getting some good advice. I share your desire for the new 30' Classic models. Heck, just the couch got us going on selling our 28' and moving up! As you know, the investment is high on a new one for sure, so we are just looking at improving our L-couch cushions for now. If your considering not getting the Classic; instead another model like the Flying Cloud, perhaps consider the 28'; less expensive, 2 feet shorter, roomy with separate dinette and lounge, and the twin model has plenty storage outside and inside for us.

One thing I was not clear on was your payload with your 1/2T; you say it is 1446lbs; was that door sticker on your vehicle? What ever you decide, as mentioned in post #12, pay attention to the tongue weight; could be over 1100# when you get to a scale...that only leaves 340lbs for you and passengers and any gear you want to carry in the back.

As some others mention, if your careful, the 1/2T can surely pull a 30 Classic fine, if you can't upsize for now. Just be mindful of your limitations and you should be fine.

Hi Larry,

Thanks for the reply and the suggestion about the Flying Cloud.

That is correct the door sticker says:

Max Payload - 1446 LBS.
Max Tongue Weight - 930 LBS

I'm definitely going to be limited on the amount of gear I can put in the truck which is not something I wanted to worry about. I'm still considering what to do and I've contacted the dealership to see how much of a "hit" If I return the truck and upgrade to the 2500HD.

Thanks!

[drbrick]

IMO the "RED Xs" are telling you that your TV & AS don't work together. You are rolling the dice with your GCVW and Payload. With respect to my fellow AS contributors who say "go for it" this is speaking to itchy ears. I would personally not use that TV with the 30 classic AS. If you are ever in an accident the first thing that will be viewed is the GVWR of the TV & AS then compaired to the GCWR next the Payload capacity. If they don't work you may find your insurance company will walk away. I would personally look at a different TV (like the 2500 or a different brand) or a small AS. That's just my opinion.

[DKB_SATX]

Originally Posted by drbrick

IMO the "RED Xs" are telling you that your TV & AS don't work together. You are rolling the dice with your GCVW and Payload. With respect to my fellow AS contributors who say "go for it" this is speaking to itchy ears. I would personally not use that TV with the 30 classic AS. If you are ever in an accident the first thing that will be viewed is the GVWR of the TV & AS then compaired to the GCWR next the Payload capacity. If they don't work you may find your insurance company will walk away. I would personally look at a different TV (like the 2500 or a different brand) or a small AS. That's just my opinion.

I see this sort of FUD spread around all the time, and I have never seen a single citation of a case in which a non-commercial half-ton towing a travel trailer was refused coverage after an accident by the owner's insurance company for this reason (strict adherence to manufacturer payload rating). If you know of one, please share a citation of it.

[Maineiac]

Mike, lots of great advice on your question and it truly ends up being a personal choice for your style of camping and hauling.

I had and loved my 6.2 GMC Denali 1500 when we were pulling our 27FB International that we had for 4 years.

We too fell in love with the features of the 30 Classic, so when I ordered mine last summer , the upgrade to the 2500 HD was on my mind. Having so wanted to stay with my 1/2, ton 1500, I eventually decided that for my style of towing, I wanted the spare vehicle capacity the 2500 provided over the 1500. I traded trucks before we took delivery of the Classic last October.

We have been happy with the 2500 in all the conditions towing the Classic 30 these past 6 months.

I use this as my primary vehicle when not camping as well, it does have a few minor draw backs, mostly the quality of the ride when bobtailing and having to be a bit more selective where we park in a tight parking lot area. Otherwise no regrets, and I would not trade back to the 1500 for towing this unit.

So much a personal choice, when it’s all said and done,

Questions to ask yourself, do you ever drive further than you planned, do you run over the speed limit at times, are you generally comfortable towing a trailer.

Either vehicle can do the job nicely when matched up closely with the drivers towing style.

Enjoy that new Classic, you won’t regret the purchase

Happy Camping

[Silvertwinkie]

Originally Posted by DKB_SATX

I see this sort of FUD spread around all the time, and I have never seen a single citation of a case in which a non-commercial half-ton towing a travel trailer was refused coverage after an accident by the owner's insurance company for this reason (strict adherence to manufacturer payload rating). If you know of one, please share a citation of it.

I asked my insurance agent this same question, in addition to 4-5 other people I know in the insurance industry.


The answer is they would pay on an existing policy, but ultimately they would either drop, non-renew or simply raise the rate to a ridiculous amount forcing you to go elsewhere. Problem is, once non-renewed or dropped, good luck getting reasonably priced insurance/coverage elsewhere outside of some fly by night insurer.



They also said they look at a heck of a lot more than just your driving record, which I know first hand to be true.



I use to work for Allstate many moons ago. Your insurance records are warehoused if there are claims and all insurers have access to those claim records. Don't think so, go out and see what an independent agent will find from a different company than you have now.

I had some property down south years ago. Had a roof claim, which they paid. Rates went up virtually overnight. Went to shop it around and both other places I spoke to knew I had the roof claim, down to the smallest detail....and it's not just homeowners that gets pooled and shared. Needless to say, my rates elsewhere would have been equal or greater.


Insurance companies are in it not to loose money. Just read the fine print of your policy. It's there to clearly define what they will and will not pay, and really does a good job of covering the insurer's backside.

[Jbellboss302]

Originally Posted by mikebrownvb

Hi All,

I'm hoping to get input from someone with experience towing with a truck with a smaller towing capacity than the GVWR of the trailer.


I have a GMC 1500 AT4 2019 with the tow package it has a max towing capacity of 9,400 pounds. It has a 6.2L V8 gas engine with 10-speed automatic transmission, 435 horsepower, and about 469 lb-ft of torque.

Here are the specs for the truck:

• Curb Weight - 5,554
• GVWR - 7,000
• GCVWR - 15,000
• Payload - 1,446
• Towing Capacity - 9,400

My wife and are planning to purchase the 2019 Airstream Classic 30RB. Here are the specs of the trailer:

• UVW - 7,788 (includes LP and batteries)
• GVWR - 10,000
• Hitch Weight - 886

I used a spreadsheet with some formulas to get a better understanding of the towing limitations according to the hard numbers "on paper" numbers.


Please see the two image attachments*

Based on the math it seems the truck is ok to tow the 30RB Classic up to 8800 pounds which means I can put about 1000 pounds of stuff in the trailer without going into the "red".

I've taken into account the Passenger Weight and Cargo Weight (again see screenshot images in the attachments for visual clarification).

I know a 2500 truck would be better-suited tow the trailer but I do not have the money for a 2500.

I plan on purchasing the Hensley Hitch to help with sway and safety and plan on towing the trailer across country full time.

My questions are:

1. Will I have trouble pulling the trailer?
2. Is it dangerous to pull the trailer with this truck?
3. Will I have issues going up steep grades?
4. Based on the specs of the trailer, truck, and spreadsheet screenshots what is your assessment?
5. What should my major concerns be?
6. Have you as the person answering had experience pulling a trailer under similar circumstances if so can you please give me your honest opinion?

Thank you in advance for your insight.

Best Regards,
Mike

Jim can give you more info later, this is the wife commenting on what he said. (He’s kinda busy right now) He thinks you need a heavier tow vehicle. Don’t forget you load up your trailer with stuff too, adds weight. We have found it feels unsafe to tow with too light a vehicle and upsized the tow vehicle.
Jim can give you the valid reasons, he’s the engineer, I’m sure he will comment later. Take care

[Jbellboss302]

Originally Posted by Jbellboss302

Jim can give you more info later, this is the wife commenting on what he said. (He’s kinda busy right now) He thinks you need a heavier tow vehicle. Don’t forget you load up your trailer with stuff too, adds weight. We have found it feels unsafe to tow with too light a vehicle and upsized the tow vehicle.
Jim can give you the valid reasons, he’s the engineer, I’m sure he will comment later. Take care

I can add his experience, ranges from 1980 to now...we have had from small tent trailers to larger tent trailers, to massive 5th wheel “37’ with 4 slides” to our current 27’ Airstream with various tow vehicles over the years, Chevy van, suburbans and more recently 3 different trucks. Your questions concerned him, so I expect he will respond. ����

[PCJ]

I'm not sure how to respond, the truck you mentioned (I owned one) numbers are numbers. At that point we only had a camper at 6,000 lbs ++ you know that thing. Our AS is only a 2008 same model, but since we went FT and may encounter hills. We now have a Duramax diesel, so no longer those problems.

[Gondul]

I am/was in a similar position...

The talk of an AS didn't occur until *after* we had bought a new RAM Limited (1320 payload).

We looked at several different models and ran the numbers... the ones I could tow with the truck she did not like and the 30 footer she liked would put us way over and neither one of us was comfortable going that route...

So, now I'm waiting on the RAM 2500 I ordered to show up at the dealer... I got a decent price on the truck and an *excellent* offer on the trade (which pays off my balance on the original loan and several grand towards padding the down payment).

FWIW, I went with the gas vs diesel... for several reason, some being that the truck will be used frequently for other than towing (not quite a daily driver, but close), payload on a 2500 with a diesel is not much better than a 1500 and is really better paired with a 3500 (and I don't need a 3500).

Best of luck making a decision...

[n2916s]

We bought our Airstream in 2005, a 31' Sovereign with a gross weight of 8600# (although we have never weighed it over 8000#). Towed it for eleven years with a first generation Nissan Titan 1/2 ton. We visited pretty much every state in the lower 48 and commuted annually to our summer jobs in Yellowstone. That truck, which was not nearly as capable as you 1500, never hiccuped once or gave us any concern. On those rare occasions when faced with a tough grade, 3rd gear and 3800 rpm would scoot us uphill at 55 with all parameters in the green. Downhill is technique, stay within reasonable speed, intermittent brake usage, downshift if necessary -- all things you already know to do.

Yes, I was pretty restricted on payload for the truck. Yes, I had to carefully maintain my tow vehicle and the running gear on my trailer. And yes, when I traded it in for my Titan XD, it had 213,000 miles on it and everything still worked except the tape player.

If your dealer will work with you on fleeting up to a 2500, I think it would be a fine thing. But, if he plans to pillage your wallet, why not try your 1500? I think you will find it capable.

[gypsydad]

Originally Posted by DKB_SATX

I see this sort of FUD spread around all the time, and I have never seen a single citation of a case in which a non-commercial half-ton towing a travel trailer was refused coverage after an accident by the owner's insurance company for this reason (strict adherence to manufacturer payload rating). If you know of one, please share a citation of it.

Well, here we go again...yes it does happen.; be glad you have not had it happen to you...not fun going to court. I have posted before about when my son and his college friends took our Expedition to CO on a ski trip several years ago, and got caught in a wind while they were sleeping at night, and one of the passengers was driving; it rolled over, a girl sleeping got her back hurt pretty bad and they ended up suing both us and Ford due to medical. Insurance inspectors from both Ford and Allstate wanted to know weights of the passengers, what else was inside, and what was in/weight of luggage in the pod on top, which was destroyed. Ended up getting settled, but weight and loading was a big part of that case, as were the tires (Firestone days). Better to be safe then listen to advise from someone who would likely not be standing with you in court, right?

[DKB_SATX]

Originally Posted by gypsydad

Well, here we go again...yes it does happen.; be glad you have not had it happen to you...not fun going to court. I have posted before about when my son and his college friends took our Expedition to CO on a ski trip several years ago, and got caught in a wind while they were sleeping at night, and one of the passengers was driving; it rolled over, a girl sleeping got her back hurt pretty bad and they ended up suing both us and Ford due to medical. Insurance inspectors from both Ford and Allstate wanted to know weights of the passengers, what else was inside, and what was in/weight of luggage in the pod on top, which was destroyed. Ended up getting settled, but weight and loading was a big part of that case, as were the tires (Firestone days). Better to be safe then listen to advise from someone who would likely not be standing with you in court, right?

Where was the travel trailer in your story?

[OTRA15]

Originally Posted by gypsydad

Well, here we go again...yes it does happen.; be glad you have not had it happen to you...
. . .
. . . Better to be safe then listen to advise from someone who would likely not be standing with you in court, right? . . .

Your entire comment is well said IMO.

Peter

[jcl]

Originally Posted by gypsydad

Well, here we go again...yes it does happen.; be glad you have not had it happen to you...not fun going to court. I have posted before about when my son and his college friends took our Expedition to CO on a ski trip several years ago, and got caught in a wind while they were sleeping at night, and one of the passengers was driving; it rolled over, a girl sleeping got her back hurt pretty bad and they ended up suing both us and Ford due to medical. Insurance inspectors from both Ford and Allstate wanted to know weights of the passengers, what else was inside, and what was in/weight of luggage in the pod on top, which was destroyed. Ended up getting settled, but weight and loading was a big part of that case, as were the tires (Firestone days). Better to be safe then listen to advise from someone who would likely not be standing with you in court, right?

Your example would be relevant if the vehicle was loaded over the GVWR, AND the insurer declined coverage. Since neither was apparently the case, how is this an example of coverage being declined based on loading?

It is perfectly reasonable for investigators to want to understand what may have contributed to a crash.

As an aside, the most relevant info for a roll over was most likely whether they had exceeded the roof rack load limit, as well as their travel speed at the time of the crash.

[olgoat]

We are still new to RV'ing, I am currently towing a AS GT 27FB with an EcoBoost F-150. Almost exact same weight, payload and torque as your truck. Your 1500 has more HP than my F-150 and my F-150 has a higher tow and tongue rating than your 1500. In other words pretty similar TV's.

The AS GT 27FB is obviously lighter and has a slightly smaller side surface subjected to cross winds, versus the 30' Classic that your are looking at.

Much like you, I have a spreadsheet with all the details and I can calculate the total and tongue weight by looking at the cargo and it's location.

I suspect your 1500 will have no issues with acceleration or braking. The F-150 has no issues in this area.

With all that said I have not found a distribution hitch setup that I am comfortable with. My F-150 gets pushed around quite a bit by winds and passing big rigs. I am continuing to make adjustments and this weekend I am adding a rear sway bar and new rear shocks, hoping this helps.

Although not in my budget currently, likewise I have considered moving up to a 3/4 ton truck. I am no expert in this area and will not make a suggestion for your actions, but those are my experiences with a very similar TV and slightly smaller TT.

[ekbruster]

Originally Posted by olgoat

We are still new to RV'ing, I am currently towing a AS GT 27FB with an EcoBoost F-150. Almost exact same weight, payload and torque as your truck. Your 1500 has more HP than my F-150 and my F-150 has a higher tow and tongue rating than your 1500. In other words pretty similar TV's.

The AS GT 27FB is obviously lighter and has a slightly smaller side surface subjected to cross winds, versus the 30' Classic that your are looking at.

Much like you, I have a spreadsheet with all the details and I can calculate the total and tongue weight by looking at the cargo and it's location.

I suspect your 1500 will have no issues with acceleration or braking. The F-150 has no issues in this area.

With all that said I have not found a distribution hitch setup that I am comfortable with. My F-150 gets pushed around quite a bit by winds and passing big rigs. I am continuing to make adjustments and this weekend I am adding a rear sway bar and new rear shocks, hoping this helps.

Although not in my budget currently, likewise I have considered moving up to a 3/4 ton truck. I am no expert in this area and will not make a suggestion for your actions, but those are my experiences with a very similar TV and slightly smaller TT.

Have you looked at the husky line of hitches? I have a husky centerline straight bars and really like the way the hitch handles, plus it doesn't take crane to install the receiver. Towing a 30FC Bunk model with a Yukon and it pulls like a dream.