Fuel Economy Comparison

[Andrew T]

Yesterday we ran a convoy of units to Ottawa for the RV show next weekend. We filled them all at the service centre in Kitchener and then drove one behind the other to Napanee where we filled them all again, 296 Kilometers. It is always a great comparison to do that as you run the same road at the same time in identical conditions at the same speed.

We were running 110 KPH 68 MPH but had a tail wind so this is viable for comparison only.

The best economy was achieved by the Mercedes C350 towing the Base camp which we know tows very easy.

Amazing how close the caravan Diesel and 300 were to each other. Not that the weight matters much on a run like this but the Diesel was carrying about 3000 pounds of carpet tiles and the back of the Caravan had 1500 pounds of stuff in it.

The Jeep Cherokee continues to impress me, it must be the most fuel efficient gas SUV to tow with. The 9 speed transmission certainly must help a lot here. It is also very stable, more stable than the larger Grand Cherokee. Still the 300 is the nicest of these to spend time in. Very comfortable smooth and quiet. I drive it and kind of wonder why I need a Jag.

[Andrew T]

Here is the fuel economy chart to go with that.

[Andrew T]

All set up at the Ottawa RV show. 9 Airstreams on display.

[Isuzusweet]

Did you rotate time at point? Also please specify what trailer model and length each TV was towing. The 300 looks like it's towing a 25'?

As an owner of the much maligned XJS (1995 XJS 2+2 convertible with the AJ-16 motor). You never NEED a Jaguar; but you want a Jaguar.

Cheers
Tony

[Andrew T]

Hi Tony. The 300 was towing a 30'. The Jeep a 27. Caravan the 23. The Diesel the 33. Love my Jag to an irrational degree.

[kscherzi]

Owning a 27' international myself I'm amazed that you chose a Cherokee. From what I can tell it's max tow rating is about 4,500 lbs. I looked at a Grand Cherokee to replace my ageing Expedition. Really like the vehicle, but it's tow/payload specs were at max for our trailer. Opted for a larger F150 to also carry bikes and other stuff. I understand how you look critically at specs, just amazed that a Cherokee worked.

[Garfield]

"One test is worth a thousand expert opinions."

Tex Johnston, Boeing 707 test pilot

I never noticed Andy's sig line before ... so true, love it.

[Isuzusweet]

Sorry Andy, I only just noticed the trailer length beside the vehicle type.

I have, and will copy this thread over to people asking what truck they should buy to tow an AS. Just to show them of other options than just a pick up.

Thanks Andrew for your efforts in this regard. would be proud.

Cheers
Tony

[Road Ruler]

Originally Posted by Garfield

"One test is worth a thousand expert opinions."

Tex Johnston, Boeing 707 test pilot

I never noticed Andy's sig line before ... so true, love it.

X's Two

[dkottum]

X's Three.

I was in Aircraft maintenance for much of 30 years. Like towing Airstreams, we never knew for sure what we had until a pilot took it for a test flight. Andy has done a lot of that for us, written extensively about what he has learned, and contributes to this forum. Thanks Andy.

[Stream-Style]

Nice pictures of the convoy Andrew. There is something oddly beautiful & impressive when a non-truck vehicle pulls an AS.

[RandyNH]

Originally Posted by Isuzusweet

I have, and will copy this thread over to people asking what truck they should buy to tow an AS. Just to show them of other options than just a pick up.

Thanks Andrew for your efforts in this regard. would be proud.

Cheers
Tony

I don't really see how a 385 mile trip with a 250 foot change in elevation can be used to justify the acceptability of any of these vehicles as tow vehicle.

Wasn't there a video of someone towing a trailer on a bicycle, to demonstrate the ease of towing....

Okay that's pretty funny, I just double checked myself to make sure I remembered it correctly and here it is, what I didn't remember was WHO did it. PERFECT..

https://youtu.be/5HCY3evE44c

[Andrew T]

We purchased the Cherokee for a couple of reasons, we have been towing with it for 18 months now. We have many customers looking for their first RV who are driving a variety of smaller SUV's and would like to test drive something similar. We did not have a lot to learn about several other smaller SUV's such as the Edge and Terrain as we have lots of experience with them.

We also wanted to try the 9 speed ZF front drive transmission in this vehicle and see how it would hold up. My contact at ZF was pretty pleased with it and though they had some initial software glitches with others ours has been completely trouble free. It does not shift quite as nice as the ZF 8 speed in the 300 but it does always have the right gear for the job. We know this transmission will find its way into many other vehicles so it will be good to have a track record with it.

The Cherokee actually handles better than the Grand Cherokee mainly due to suspension tuning and focus. The Grand is more of an off road vehicle this one is not at all. The tires in this Limited trim are 215/55R x 18's with not side sway at all and of course it is independent suspension. The suspension tuning is firmer than the Grand as well so the ride is not as soft. I gave it an unexpected and sever handling test last spring, I was returning from Jackson Center with a 30 International on it. It was Midnight and I was 5 miles from home on the 402 and likely a little more tired than I should have been. Suddenly I saw a deer coming across the median I piled on the brakes and steered to the left to go behind it, about that time the deer stopped, I spun it to the right to go the other way, the stability control was going crazy and I thought for sure the Airstream was going to hit the deer but it swung wide enough to clear, I was glancing in the mirror to see it miss the Airstream and then I hit one crossing the other way. $5000.00 later the Jeep was fixed.

The thing was looking back on it I reacted to the deer the same as I would have if I had not been towing I did not take the time to consider I had the Airstream on the back. So I was glad I connected everything properly and had both sway bars on when I did my own Scandinavian Moose Test.

The Cherokee weighs 3900 pounds and has a GVWR of 5500 so it carries the 27FB hitch weight and passengers fine but you would not put a lot of other cargo in it and there is not a lot of space to anyway. it is great for setting up shows as you can maneuver with it like you have the lot tractor.

Andrew T

[Andrew T]

In case you have never seen this, this is a video of Tex Johnson.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ra_khhzuFlE

[xrvr]

Relevancy?

[jcl]

Originally Posted by avionstream

Relevancy?

"One test is worth a thousand expert opinions"

Seems pretty relevant.

[Isuzusweet]

Originally Posted by avionstream

Relevancy?

There are many who wouldn't consider towing a 30' International with anything less than a 3/4 ton diesel, much less a Jeep Cherokee. By doing a pretty violent emergency maneuver with a Jeep Cherokee towing a 30' International and not jack knifing, rolling the entire unit and maintaining control Andrew has proved that what others wouldn't attempt is possible, and not a hazard; just like the jet roll in a commercial airliner.

Clear as mud?

Cheers
Tony

[spenfolder]

The 6 cyl Jeep Cherokee with a factory tow package is rated at 4500#. I don't expect this information to change any views on this thread, just wanted to update some info. (in other words, here we go again).

Thanks Andy for your post. I've actually been thinking about a new TV for my 16' Bambi, and the Cherokee is very interesting.

[Andrew T]

Sorry I am so long getting back to this thread.

Once modified the hitch on the Cherokee is considerably stronger than the factory hitch on say an F150 or Chev Suburban Etc. The reason it is stronger is that we are spreading the load over a much larger area of the chassis. On a hitch you get strength with distance, the further you spread the loads the stronger the installation is.

One note in the case of the Cherokee with higher hitch weights we do install a smaller spare tire so we have room for the strengthening. It easily handles the hitch weight of the 27FB that it was towing.

The tow rating of the Cherokee is actually 4500 pounds but it is not nearly as capable a tow vehicle as the 300 which is 1000 pounds, it is a considerably better tow vehicle in every respect than a 4Runner rated for 5000 pounds.

The Cherokee is not a good tow vehicle for a 3000 pound square box trailer due to the additional aerodynamic drag.

[Andrew T]

On Monday we returned from Ottawa in the opposite conditions. We had a strong front corner crosswind of 17-23 MPH. We had to wait to leave Ottawa because there was 30 Centimeters (12") of snow overnight. The staff was anxious to get home so though it would have been logical to run slower we ran the same 110 KPH back to London. So you could call this worst case mileage.

The 3 smaller Airstreams were shipped back on a float so other than the 300 and the Diesel truck the combinations changed. The 300's fuel economy changed a surprisingly small amount which makes me wonder if it was filled all the way. This was over 239 Kilometers. Even with the 8 speed it did tow in the same gear in both directions.

Andrew T