Forgive me: Does tongue weight count against payload?

[ROBERT CROSS]

$55.00......

CAT.....$14.50..... you get three weights. TV alone(base), TV/AS w/o WD, TV/AS w/WD.

Bob

[MaineStreamer]

Bob - What is WD?

[SteveSueMac]

WD = weight distribution

Not-Bob :-)

[blkmagikca]

Bob - does Cat weigh each wheel or just the axle?

Not all AS owners know enough about the weighing of their rig - hence the Escapees' Smart Weigh also provides them with guidance as to how to balance their loads from side to side and front to back. I'd be surprised if 10% of all AS owners know what their GAWR, GVWR, GCWR are for both their AS & TV and how to interpret the results of the weights.

I happened to attend the Escapade in Goshen IN and win the Smart Weigh as a door prize. I waited to do the actual weights because I knew I was going to upgrade all my running gear. Having done the upgrade in July, when I was at the Escapade in Tucson 2 weeks ago, I had them do the weighing.

BTW, I can't see the utility of TV/AS w/o WD. You would never tow that way.

[ROBERT CROSS]

"BTW, I can't see the utility of TV/AS w/o WD. You would never tow that way."
__________________
CAT weighs the axles.

Separate wheel loading has little to do with WD set-up, more important for tire loading & longevity.
Streetside of our Classic is heavier, not much I can do about that, except pay attention when loading the 'stuff'.
Tire loading side to side is what it is, front to rear is dependent on hitch height.

There is no 'utility' to the TV/AS w/o WD weight....it's a guide so you will know how much weight has been taken off the steering axle when hitched.

Study these tickets, note the TV alone steering axle,(target), weight.
When WD is set correctly with the trailer level, it's that weight that is your goal.

Bob

[DHart]

We are moving toward a new RVing setup. Trading 2011 HR Endeavor 43' Diesel Pusher for 2016 Airstream 30' Flying Cloud. Tow vehicle will be 2015 GMC Sierra Denali 2500HD truck with Duramax/Allison.

The 30' Flying Cloud has a dry weight with 2 AC units of around 6700# and a GVW of 8880#. I think the trailer tongue weight would be around 1,100# ?

The 2500HD Denali has a trailering capacity of 13,000# and a payload capacity of 2,793#.

Assuming 1100# tongue weight, that should leave us around 1600# of remaining payload capacity for myself, the wife, the dog, and some stuff in the bed of the truck (camp chairs, spare water, spare ammo, Honda i2000 generator.)

AS salesperson says we won't need to go with a high-cost WD hitch. He says we can save some money and some weight by going with a light-weight Andersen Anti-Sway/Anti-Bounce hitch (which does have a WD feature, as well.)

From what I'm reading here, it sounds like we need not be too concerned about the match up with the truck and 30' Airstream. Does the recommendation to go with the less costly (vs. Hensley), Andersen hitch seem reasonable?

[Bill M.]

ound this statement in my Airstream's Owners Manual in the towing section.

""When a trailer is properly hitched up to a tow vehicle with a load equalizing hitch, approximately 1/3 of the trailer’s tongue weight will be on the trailer’s axles and 2/3 will be transferred to the tow vehicle."

Hope this helps."

No, that sure does not help me any. Maybe when they were towing them with 4 door sedans. But I have a very hard time just getting my front axle back to the unhitched weight. No way on my 2500 am I going to get 1/3 the hitch weight on the front. Now the reccomendation from the truck manf is to get the front height halfway restored. I did help set up my father in laws 1976 olds cutlass with a short Argosy and we did get the car to look about level so maybe the soft springs from the old days transfer weight better?

[SteveSueMac]

I have a 2013 Chevy 2500 and tow a 27FB with a ProPride hitch for total tongue weight between 1000 and 1100 depending on when I've weighed it. According to all the manuals from Chevy for my truck (including the Diesel appendix), my configuration requires only 50% of what's lifted off the front to be returned to the front by the hitch. I know this because in my case, I think the front axle lost 500# or so when connected to the trailer and therefore only needed 250# to be transferred back. I got the wrong bars for my hitch (because I was smarter than Sean the manufacturer :-/ ) and had some trouble getting all 500# back to the front and with the help of Ron G and others here, realized that wasn't necessary with my setup.

From what I've read in the forums, 250# of WD is certainly doable with the Andersen. You'd have to check to be sure but I'm guessing that's the ball park you're in. People who use it tend to love it (though - come to think of it - people tend to love whatever they use :-) ).

If you want a light weight, easy to use, relatively inexpensive hitch, that Andersen could be ideal for your setup. While tedious, you should check out the threads about them and evaluate for yourself.

I've only ever used the ProPride (which I love - but not to the point of getting bent out of shape if you buy a different product :-) ).

Good luck!!

[DHart]

Yes, more time spent researching the feedback on the Andersen hitch is quite warranted. Thanks for your comments.

Originally Posted by SteveSueMac

I have a 2013 Chevy 2500 and tow a 27FB with a ProPride hitch for total tongue weight between 1000 and 1100 depending on when I've weighed it. According to all the manuals from Chevy for my truck (including the Diesel appendix), my configuration requires only 50% of what's lifted off the front to be returned to the front by the hitch. I know this because in my case, I think the front axle lost 500# or so when connected to the trailer and therefore only needed 250# to be transferred back. I got the wrong bars for my hitch (because I was smarter than Sean the manufacturer :-/ ) and had some trouble getting all 500# back to the front and with the help of Ron G and others here, realized that wasn't necessary with my setup.

From what I've read in the forums, 250# of WD is certainly doable with the Andersen. You'd have to check to be sure but I'm guessing that's the ball park you're in. People who use it tend to love it (though - come to think of it - people tend to love whatever they use :-) ).

If you want a light weight, easy to use, relatively inexpensive hitch, that Andersen could be ideal for your setup. While tedious, you should check out the threads about them and evaluate for yourself.

I've only ever used the ProPride (which I love - but not to the point of getting bent out of shape if you buy a different product :-) ).

Good luck!!

[slowmover]

50% FALR has been rebutted. Some OEMs may call for it, but that doesn't make it best.

A truck may not easily be set at 100% FALR, but that is likely the weak OEM or aftermarket hitch receiver if the bars are the correct rating and the rest of the hitch adjustments are correct.

[Ron Gratz]

Originally Posted by slowmover

50% FALR has been rebutted.---

By whom?

Can you provide links to credible sources?

Ron

[slowmover]

Don't you keep up at Hitch Hints, RG? Latest volume. Plenty of us aren't persuaded by the 50% malarkey. "What works" has plenty of grey area in which to operate. . "What's best" tends to be painstaking today without custom built hitch receivers.

[Msmoto]

Hello, I think along with the hitch and axle leads, some of us have auxiliary fuel tanks in the truck bed, and for me, the tank weighs 90 lbs empty, add 420 lbs of fuel (60 gal) and this is an additional 510 lbs, located slightly rear of center. While I use the Reese sway control/load distribution hitch, I will be monitoring my weight with full tanks, trailer attached, and I am guessing I will be looking at about 4300-4400 lbs each axle, front and rear or well below the 5200 front, 6010 rear GAWR. Also, I like to use 60 lbs/in sq tire pressures front and rear as the truck handles better with equal weights/equal pressures.

For me, the adjustment of the weight distribution hitch and air springs in the rear allows a more balanced set up, thus easier towing.

Just my opinion...

[slowmover]

Getting the truck weight balanced on a per axle basis is worthwhile. Solo on mine is 7,940-lbs, and each wheel position is within 40-lbs of all others. (Scale +|- may factor in that).


We'll see how it works out when hitched. But I'll be looking for more weight on the TV rear axle even if it is only a percentage greater than the front.

"Equal squat" is relative; a bit vague. Wheel position weights tell the story.

The old rule was 1/3 of TW to Steer/Drive/Trailer, but not ever perfectly. The bias should be to the Drive Axle when following this approach.

[Ron Gratz]

Originally Posted by slowmover

Don't you keep up at Hitch Hints, RG? Latest volume. ---

I've read the latest set of Hitch Hints and find nothing which addresses either Ford's or GMC/Chevrolet's specification of 50% Front Axle Load Restoration for some of their tow vehicles.

Please note: The comment by SteveSueMac, to which I believe you were responding,

"---According to all the manuals from Chevy for my truck (including the Diesel appendix), my configuration requires only 50% of what's lifted off the front to be returned to the front by the hitch.---[/quote]

does not pertain to the tow vehicles typically discussed in the Hitch Hints articles.

Ron

[slowmover]

Vol 44 #1

2015 Rv Buyer Guide issue

Hitch Hints

"Setting Your Torsion Bars"

[SteveSueMac]

Originally Posted by Ron Gratz

I've read the latest set of Hitch Hints and find nothing which addresses either Ford's or GMC/Chevrolet's specification of 50% Front Axle Load Restoration for some of their tow vehicles.



Please note: The comment by SteveSueMac, to which I believe you were responding,



"---According to all the manuals from Chevy for my truck (including the Diesel appendix), my configuration requires only 50% of what's lifted off the front to be returned to the front by the hitch.---

does not pertain to the tow vehicles typically discussed in the Hitch Hints articles.



Ron[/QUOTE]


Am I the center of controversy? 😃

All I know is the 50% FALR per Chevy's instructions has worked perfectly for me. I do wish I purchased the 1400# bars from Sean but I'm happy with my setup.

[SteveSueMac]

And for what it's worth - Slowmover (or Rednax at the time) was the guy who really inspired me to do all the CAT scale weights in the first place. I respect your opinion tremendously - and - find the 50% FALR with my 2500 truck is a sweet ride.

Best to everyone!

[Msmoto]

Slowmover suggested the drive axle should have preference if there is a difference in weight between the front and rear on the TV. Fully agree...if a front wheel drive vehicle is one's TV, clearly unloading the front may prove undesirable.

The other point, have the TW distributed equally between front axle, rear axle and trailer...but I am not certain how this is calculated. Does this mean a 900 lb tongue weight shows up on the scales as an additional 450 lbs to each axle of the TV or as some other set of numbers?

[slowmover]

Equal squat will probably show different scale numbers than 1/3-1/3-1/3. (A 900-lb TW at 300 +/- across those axles).

Wheel weights are the story. The rest is guesstimates of what matters.