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Ron Gratz · 03-04-2015, 07:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Msmoto

---If one measures tongue weight, unhitched and weight on wheels unhitched, then hitches up, reweighs, the trailer weighs the same. Weight distribution hitches simply move weight from the rear to the front of the TV.

Do you have weight tickets to substantiate this claim?

If so, can you please post photos of the tickets or post the numbers?

If the TT has independent axles and is in a nose-down attitude when the "no WD applied" measurements are made, a measurement error can be introduced which makes it appear that no load is transferred to the TT's axles when WD is applied and the nose is raised.

Ron

Msmoto · 03-05-2015, 11:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ron Gratz

Do you have weight tickets to substantiate this claim?

If so, can you please post photos of the tickets or post the numbers?

If the TT has independent axles and is in a nose-down attitude when the "no WD applied" measurements are made, a measurement error can be introduced which makes it appear that no load is transferred to the TT's axles when WD is applied and the nose is raised.

Ron

The assumption is that under all weighing conditions the trailer is level. While there is a small lever moment exerted by the trailing arms of a weight distribution hitch, it is quite small, and the lever length is also small in relationship to the distance from the wheels to the receiver at the front of the trailer.

My point is in terms of what I think the OP was concerned about, that of actually trying to not overload the TV. And, my contention is that a weight distributing hitch will not make any sizable difference in relieving the TV of tongue weight, thus increasing its payload capacity for passengers and cargo.

And, the next time I am crossing the scales, I will make every attempt to do a weigh in with and without the weight distribution bars under tension. At the CAT scales, the first fee is about $12.00 and re-weighs at $2.00 each. So, multiple passes are possible.

BoldAdventure · 03-05-2015, 11:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by marter

Wow. Thanks for your tolerance. I can only hope someone showed you a bit more patience when you started down this path.

That wasn't directed at you. It was directed at rehashed opinions of other members.

The only stupid question is the unasked question.

marter · 03-05-2015, 12:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BoldAdventure

That wasn't directed at you. It was directed at rehashed opinions of other members.

The only stupid question is the unasked question.

Thanks for clarifying; maybe I was a bit touchy.

kstewart23 · 03-05-2015, 01:01 PM

My Tundra manual says that tongue weight is included in payload. And when I called Toyota factory they said the same thing.

TG Twinkie · 03-05-2015, 01:25 PM

This is true. If you add weight to the TV in any way. Stuff in the bed, people and stuff in the cab, the additional weight of the WD hitch. And by all means the tongue weight of the trailer. All of this should be subtracted from the load carrying capacity of the TV.
As I recall the load carrying capacity of the Tundra varies from 1,400 to 1,700 pounds depending on the seating capacity, the wheelbase of the truck, along with the trim package. These along with any other items like running boards impact the actual load carrying capacity.

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**Janet H** · 03-05-2015, 02:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BoldAdventure

That wasn't directed at you. It was directed at rehashed opinions of other members.

The only stupid question is the unasked question.

lolol - group hug

Quote:

Originally Posted by marter

Thanks for clarifying; maybe I was a bit touchy.

You will have many, many more opportunities.. there are so many excellent topics yet to be explored if you are considering buying. What hitch, what brake controller, should you travel with propane off or on, what color lawn chair is best, what is the perfect coffee maker....

BoldAdventure · 03-05-2015, 03:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Janet

You will have many, many more opportunities.. there are so many excellent topics yet to be explored if you are considering buying. What hitch, what brake controller, should you travel with propane off or on, what color lawn chair is best, what is the perfect coffee maker....

All of those topics will require a thick skin because everyone is going to give you their .02 cents.

Ron Gratz · 03-05-2015, 04:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Msmoto

The assumption is that under all weighing conditions the trailer is level. While there is a small lever moment exerted by the trailing arms of a weight distribution hitch, it is quite small, and the lever length is also small in relationship to the distance from the wheels to the receiver at the front of the trailer.

If a tongue weight is 1000# and the WDH is adjusted to return the front axle load to its unhitched value,
each WD bar will be pulling downward on the TT's A-frame with a force of about 1000#.

The total downward force of 2000# acts at a distance of about 30" from the ball coupler.
If the distance from the ball coupler to the midpoint between the TT's axles is, say, 240", the combined 2000# from the WD bars will add a load of about 2000*30/240 = 250# to the TT's axles.

That means instead of transferring the full 1000# to the TV, the net transfer would be only 750#.

Quote:

My point is in terms of what I think the OP was concerned about, that of actually trying to not overload the TV. And, my contention is that a weight distributing hitch will not make any sizable difference in relieving the TV of tongue weight, thus increasing its payload capacity for passengers and cargo.

The OP asked:
"So if I'm starting with 1630# payload, subtract 835# for the tongue weight and 195# for the 3P hitch, I have 600# left for passengers and gear, correct?"

With a tongue weight of 835#, a properly-sized and properly-adjusted WDH could cause a load equal to approximately 200# to be transferred to the TT's axles.
The load transferred to the TV would be equal to the tongue weight minus the 200#.
Whether having 600# or 800# left for passengers and cargo makes a "sizeable difference" will be a matter of opinion.

Ron

ROBERT CROSS · 03-05-2015, 07:38 PM

^
++

200lbs moved to the trailer in Ron's computation.

Or as illustrated here at the CAT Scales, 160lbs with our Classic...

Bob

marter · 03-06-2015, 04:21 PM

Thanks for all the considered and experienced replies here; I'm learning a lot before we jump in and make decisions.

My question on this issue has been answered...Robert, I've looked at your scale tickets and I realize until I get on a scale I can't be sure, but I'm a long way from that.

BTW, off topic but where are all the 2014 145" SCREW 4x4 Lariats with max tow?

DC Bruce · 03-07-2015, 09:06 AM

Using cars.com as a search tool, I found one within about a150 mile radius of Washington DC at a dealership near York, Pennsylvania. There also was a used one at a Toyota dealership near Stafford, Va., but it had lotsa miles and had been a rental. Call me crazy, but I just couldn't get comfortable in the seats, so I passed on it. They're not common. I've concluded that most folks who need to haul that much weight just go for a 3/4 ton. That's probably what we will do, although we may not pop for the premium of a diesel. Thing is, some of these gassers (e.g. Ram) specify 89 octane which is not a whole lot cheaper than diesel fuel.

Moflash · 03-07-2015, 12:31 PM

The weight transfer to the trailer axels should not be subtracted from total payload calculation as the tongue weight is a constant factor.

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marter · 03-07-2015, 01:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DC Bruce

They're not common. I've concluded that most folks who need to haul that much weight just go for a 3/4 ton.

My conclusion as well, especially here in the Midwest

As far as a Super Duty, I have a very short garage and a 157" WB Ford (1/2 or 3/4) gives me 2" clearance of the garage door assuming my front bumper is touching the wall common to the family room.

I need a 142" WB truck, and the Super Duty line won't give me a SCREW and a 5.5' box, so I'd have to go to a SCAB. I want the SCREW and a short box, hence the search for the max tow truck of my dreams.

jcl · 03-07-2015, 03:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Moflash

The weight transfer to the trailer axels should not be subtracted from total payload calculation as the tongue weight is a constant factor.

Respectfully disagree.

As I see it, tongue weight is constant, in terms of the impact on the receiver. It still applies the same downward force, so the full tongue weight is important in terms of the rating of the receiver hitch.

I agree that tongue weight is applied against payload, but only partially if a weight distributing hitch is used. If a weight distributing hitch is used, then there is additional weight from the WD hitch itself, and also weight reduction from the transfer to the trailer axles, in terms of the impact on tow vehicle payload.

What am I missing?

Jeff

cwf · 03-07-2015, 03:34 PM

Speaking of tongue weight, don't over talk it...
Get your numbers at a scale and set up your rig.

Stream'n · 03-08-2015, 08:45 PM

Found this statement in my Airstream's Owners Manual in the towing section.

"When a trailer is properly hitched up to a tow vehicle with a load equalizing hitch, approximately 1/3 of the trailer’s tongue weight will be on the trailer’s axles and 2/3 will be transferred to the tow vehicle."

Hope this helps.

Msmoto · 03-09-2015, 06:21 AM

Well, I will get to the scales on my next outing....but first I may need to step outside and capture a few crows.... just to be prepared....LOL

ukulele2010 · 03-10-2015, 10:33 AM

Well, another way to look at this question is that I believe a number of people pull a 25 foot trailer with your general type of vehicle without issue. I have a 2012 Ford F150 XLT ecoboost with 1660 lbs payload and a 2012 20 foot Flying Cloud trailer and am doing just fine here in the mountains of Colorado. I believe my tongue weight is roughly the same as yours... I use an Equal-i-zer weight distribution hitch.

Of course, some will say the particulars of your habits should be examined - how much stuff do you bring - do you travel heavy or light? And, those people are correct as well... I seem to travel light...

And, I wouldn't rely on that sales person.

blkmagikca · 03-18-2015, 12:43 AM

Last week I was at the Escapees' Escapade in Tucson AZ. One of the services they offer is called "Smartweigh", where they weigh the TV and trailer. The TV is first weighed solo but with all the stuff you normally carry in it (including a full tank of fuel). Then the TV and trailer are hitched, weight distribution tightened up and the TV and TT are weighed again. Weighing is done for each wheel, so you can see how much of the trailer's weight is shifted onto the TV. Here is the weigh sheet for my TV & AS (the AS had full fresh water, full wash water & full waste, as it was at the end of the rally).

http://www.vsquare.com/howard/photos...smartweigh.pdf

Some interesting data:
1 - AS front axle is carrying 4,300 lbs (rated 4,500 lbs)
2 - AS rear axle is carrying 4,450 lbs (rated 4,500 lbs)
3 - Each wheel of the TV is carrying 200 lbs more when hitched; thus the weight of the AS is distributed evenly.
4 - When hitched, the front axle of the TV is carrying 4,400 lbs (rated 4,410 lbs). This includes the massive steel bumper and winch (which weighs about 400 lbs).
5 - When hitched, the rear axle of the TV is carrying 4,000 lbs (rated at 6,084 lbs, meaning I can load another 2,000 lbs of cargo into the rear and still be within specs).

Anyone can get Smartweigh done at the two locations - the Escapee park at Congress AZ (just north-west of Phoenix), or the main Escapee park in Livingston TX. I believe the cost for this is $55.00.