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Old 05-07-2015, 08:15 PM   #71
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50% FALR has been rebutted.---
By whom?

Can you provide links to credible sources?

Ron
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Old 05-08-2015, 05:31 AM   #72
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Don't you keep up at Hitch Hints, RG? Latest volume. Plenty of us aren't persuaded by the 50% malarkey. "What works" has plenty of grey area in which to operate. . "What's best" tends to be painstaking today without custom built hitch receivers.
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Old 05-08-2015, 07:27 AM   #73
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Axle loads note

Hello, I think along with the hitch and axle leads, some of us have auxiliary fuel tanks in the truck bed, and for me, the tank weighs 90 lbs empty, add 420 lbs of fuel (60 gal) and this is an additional 510 lbs, located slightly rear of center. While I use the Reese sway control/load distribution hitch, I will be monitoring my weight with full tanks, trailer attached, and I am guessing I will be looking at about 4300-4400 lbs each axle, front and rear or well below the 5200 front, 6010 rear GAWR. Also, I like to use 60 lbs/in sq tire pressures front and rear as the truck handles better with equal weights/equal pressures.

For me, the adjustment of the weight distribution hitch and air springs in the rear allows a more balanced set up, thus easier towing.

Just my opinion...
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Old 05-08-2015, 09:55 AM   #74
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Forgive me: Does tongue weight count against payload?

Getting the truck weight balanced on a per axle basis is worthwhile. Solo on mine is 7,940-lbs, and each wheel position is within 40-lbs of all others. (Scale +|- may factor in that).


We'll see how it works out when hitched. But I'll be looking for more weight on the TV rear axle even if it is only a percentage greater than the front.

"Equal squat" is relative; a bit vague. Wheel position weights tell the story.

The old rule was 1/3 of TW to Steer/Drive/Trailer, but not ever perfectly. The bias should be to the Drive Axle when following this approach.
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Old 05-08-2015, 05:38 PM   #75
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Quote:
Originally Posted by slowmover View Post
Don't you keep up at Hitch Hints, RG? Latest volume. ---
I've read the latest set of Hitch Hints and find nothing which addresses either Ford's or GMC/Chevrolet's specification of 50% Front Axle Load Restoration for some of their tow vehicles.

Please note: The comment by SteveSueMac, to which I believe you were responding,

"---According to all the manuals from Chevy for my truck (including the Diesel appendix), my configuration requires only 50% of what's lifted off the front to be returned to the front by the hitch.---[/quote]

does not pertain to the tow vehicles typically discussed in the Hitch Hints articles.

Ron
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Old 05-08-2015, 07:11 PM   #76
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Forgive me: Does tongue weight count against payload?

Vol 44 #1

2015 Rv Buyer Guide issue

Hitch Hints

"Setting Your Torsion Bars"
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Old 05-08-2015, 07:52 PM   #77
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron Gratz View Post
I've read the latest set of Hitch Hints and find nothing which addresses either Ford's or GMC/Chevrolet's specification of 50% Front Axle Load Restoration for some of their tow vehicles.



Please note: The comment by SteveSueMac, to which I believe you were responding,



"---According to all the manuals from Chevy for my truck (including the Diesel appendix), my configuration requires only 50% of what's lifted off the front to be returned to the front by the hitch.---


does not pertain to the tow vehicles typically discussed in the Hitch Hints articles.



Ron[/QUOTE]


Am I the center of controversy? 😃

All I know is the 50% FALR per Chevy's instructions has worked perfectly for me. I do wish I purchased the 1400# bars from Sean but I'm happy with my setup.
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Old 05-08-2015, 07:55 PM   #78
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And for what it's worth - Slowmover (or Rednax at the time) was the guy who really inspired me to do all the CAT scale weights in the first place. I respect your opinion tremendously - and - find the 50% FALR with my 2500 truck is a sweet ride.

Best to everyone!
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Old 05-09-2015, 06:38 AM   #79
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Weight distribution bias

Slowmover suggested the drive axle should have preference if there is a difference in weight between the front and rear on the TV. Fully agree...if a front wheel drive vehicle is one's TV, clearly unloading the front may prove undesirable.

The other point, have the TW distributed equally between front axle, rear axle and trailer...but I am not certain how this is calculated. Does this mean a 900 lb tongue weight shows up on the scales as an additional 450 lbs to each axle of the TV or as some other set of numbers?
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Old 05-09-2015, 06:49 AM   #80
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Equal squat will probably show different scale numbers than 1/3-1/3-1/3. (A 900-lb TW at 300 +/- across those axles).

Wheel weights are the story. The rest is guesstimates of what matters.
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Old 05-09-2015, 06:56 AM   #81
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Forgive me: Does tongue weight count against payload?

Quote:
Originally Posted by SteveSueMac View Post
And for what it's worth - Slowmover (or Rednax at the time) was the guy who really inspired me to do all the CAT scale weights in the first place. I respect your opinion tremendously - and - find the 50% FALR with my 2500 truck is a sweet ride.

Best to everyone!

Thanks

Don't know why RG dragged that in. And, FWIW, the initial setup is always just a baseline. TV tire pressure is the goal, so to speak. And that may mean further experimentation.

Though, as Andrew notes in the above article, most owners are probably okay with factory hitch spec settings. Factory and aftermarket hitch receivers are, in the main, unable to deal with higher loads imposed by a WDH. Hard enough to get customers to pay attention to using WD in the first place.

Then again, most owners pull trailers with suspensions less sophisticated than a horse wagon. It's a market with unintelligent customers, to be fair.

As far as I can tell, a rig that cannot achieve 100% FALR has problems in need of correction. Whether or not that is the best setting is entirely another question.
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Old 05-09-2015, 07:51 AM   #82
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Originally Posted by slowmover View Post
Thanks

Don't know why RG dragged that in. ...snip...

I think because you mentioned that 50% FALR a had been disproved within a post or two of my description of it in the thread. No biggie!

Ron's another guy whose opinion carries a lot of weight with me (and not just because he guessed my weight through my first mistaken CAT tickets I posted &#128515
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Old 05-09-2015, 10:23 PM   #83
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Quote:
Originally Posted by slowmover View Post
50% FALR has been rebutted. ---
Quote:
Vol 44 #1
2015 Rv Buyer Guide issue
Hitch Hints
"Setting Your Torsion Bars"
Thank for the title of the article -- made it easier to access it.

I believe Andy has mis-interpreted the SAE J2807 Recommended Practice.
SAE J2807 does not (and, is not intended to) specify how the user of a TV/TT combo should adjust the WD bars.

The purpose of SAE J2807 is stated as:
This document defines procedures and requirements to determine Gross Combination Weight Rating (GCWR) and calculate corresponding Trailer Weight Rating (TWR) for any tow-vehicle. These procedures will establish consistent rating requirements and processes so end users (customers) can reasonably compare similar class models in terms of trailering ability.

Yes, SAE J2807 does specify a 50% Front Axle Load Restoration (FALR) for some of the tow vehicle comparison tests.
But, they also specify 0% FALR for some tests and 100% FALR for some tests.
There is nothing in SAE J2807 which specifies that a WDH should be adjusted to 50% by the TV operator.
In fact, there is nothing in SAE J2807 which specifies anything the end user should or should not do.

If Andy wants to take someone to task for abandoning the "equal squat" approach to WDH adjustment (I assume that's what Andy means by "the industry spec of the last 50 years"), he should be directing his criticism at Ford, GMC/Chverolet, Toyota, Progress Mfg (Equal-i-zer), Cequent Group (Reese/DrawTite), et. al.)
They are the ones who now are telling customers not to use the "equal squat" approach.

Andy's article, "Setting Your Torsion Bars", seems to be a blanket indictment of SAE's attempt to produce a recommended practice for comparison testing of tow vehicles.
There always will be some who will be opposed to some or all of any recommended practice.
It never will be possible to get unanimous agreement as to requirements for comparison testing of tow vehicle performance.

IMO, expecting TV manufacturers to test their vehicles at "equal squat" is unrealistic.
IMO, expecting manufacturers of receivers and hitches to provide products which minimize rear overhang for a variety of TVs is unrealistic.
IMO, expecting all users to adjust their WDH for maximum rearward angle of the ball mount is unrealistic.

Andy says that "SAE has tried to take on something that should not be their job".
He also says that what SAE is trying to do should be the job of the RV dealer.
Let's be realistic -- how are RV dealers ever going to get together to agree on a recommended practice for comparison of TV towing performance???
The RV dealers would produce nothing. SAE has produced something.

IMO, Andy's article disproves nothing.
Fortunately, in the end, Andy recommends experimentation to find what works best for a given combination. That, I agree with.

Ron
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Old 05-10-2015, 05:55 AM   #84
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Quote:
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I have a 2013 Chevy 2500 and tow a 27FB with a ProPride hitch for total tongue weight between 1000 and 1100 depending on when I've weighed it. According to all the manuals from Chevy for my truck (including the Diesel appendix), my configuration requires only 50% of what's lifted off the front to be returned to the front by the hitch. I know this because in my case, I think the front axle lost 500# or so when connected to the trailer and therefore only needed 250# to be transferred back. I got the wrong bars for my hitch (because I was smarter than Sean the manufacturer :-/ ) and had some trouble getting all 500# back to the front and with the help of Ron G and others here, realized that wasn't necessary with my setup.

From what I've read in the forums, 250# of WD is certainly doable with the Andersen. You'd have to check to be sure but I'm guessing that's the ball park you're in. People who use it tend to love it (though - come to think of it - people tend to love whatever they use :-) ).

If you want a light weight, easy to use, relatively inexpensive hitch, that Andersen could be ideal for your setup. While tedious, you should check out the threads about them and evaluate for yourself.

I've only ever used the ProPride (which I love - but not to the point of getting bent out of shape if you buy a different product :-) ).

Good luck!!
Do you notice a difference in the steering when you are at 50% FALR? Seems like it would be very light without that other 250 pounds. I drive a Suburban 2500 with a 25' RB FC and a Blue Ox hitch. I am still experimenting with the setup to try and get it right. Best I've been able to do so far results in the front of the trailer being 17" and the rear 16". Can't quite get the trailer as level as I'd like. Squat measurements are fine on the TV although it does seem to be a bit light up front. I guess I need to load up and head to the nearest truck scale and see what is going on.

John
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