Ford 2017 F150 Ecoboost 3.5

[ZOZ]

Originally Posted by Backroads58

... I don't think the Eco Boost has enough engine compression to control the descent. ...I noticed my truck brakes oscillating like maybe a over heated warped rotor....2017 or 2018 F250 Diesel. But my hesitation is the day to day driving of the Super Duty is probably not too practical. Or, perhaps a larger block gasoline engine like the 6.2 liter Chevy 1500 (maybe better engine braking)....

You're not alone in your observations of the 3.5L Eco Boost. That engine has a lower compression ratio 10.0:1 and does not require premium fuel and has six cylinders. The GMC 1500 6.2L 420hp/460lb/ft torque has a compression ratio of 11.5:1, requires premium fuel and has eight cylinders.


If I set the trailer brake controller at 5.5 and do the up/down grades as described in your post while in tow haul mode, the engine braking with that compression will satisfy trailering under those circumstances.



The GMC 6.2L was a better choice for me even if I want to go up to a larger AS.






zoz

[gypsydad]

Originally Posted by CTS09

If those of you towing with F150 Eco would also reply with your trailer length and real life tongue weights I'll build a table showing real life tongue weights.
Those who have F150 EB , post your "payload" from the door sticker as well.

This would be interesting to compile into a real data set.

My 2018 F150 EB has a 1557# Cargo Capacity (on the door) and I'm trying to figure out if I could tow a 25 or 27 with any cargo margin. I know an F250 will be fine...but real examples from forum members is a big help in selecting that first Airstream for those who already have a truck.

Your going to see several responses to your question if you just look at some of the other postings on the Forum... My personnel experience is the F150EB is a great TV for the 25'AS, with lots of torque but you need to watch the "Payload", on the model your looking at, as you noted. Many of the "actual" door stickers on the new 1/2T in not only Ford, but other brands can surprise folks with lower than expected payloads...<1400 is not uncommon. When we decided to get the 28'AS last year, we moved up to the F250 6.7D after many weeks of test driving new 1/2T's and 3/4T's. Wife wanted a bigger TV then the 1/2T...I have to agree that with a tongue weight at 1100+lbs and the 3' extra length of the 28'AS, the F250's payload, power, engine brake, wheelbase, and overall stability we feel while towing, have been a great. It just costs more, maneuverability for daily driving sucks, and operational costs are higher then the F150. Many folks still use a 1/2T to pull the larger AS's and also seem happy. For my use driving from TX to MT and around in the Rockies each summer, I recommend the 3/4T or 1T TV for larger than AS's...

[pteck]

Originally Posted by gypsydad

Your going to see several responses to your question if you just look at some of the other postings on the Forum... My personnel experience is the F150EB is a great TV for the 25'AS, with lots of torque but you need to watch the "Payload", on the model your looking at, as you noted. Many of the "actual" door stickers on the new 1/2T in not only Ford, but other brands can surprise folks with lower than expected payloads...<1400 is not uncommon. When we decided to get the 28'AS last year, we moved up to the F250 6.7D after many weeks of test driving new 1/2T's and 3/4T's. Wife wanted a bigger TV then the 1/2T...I have to agree that with a tongue weight at 1100+lbs and the 3' extra length of the 28'AS, the F250's payload, power, engine brake, wheelbase, and overall stability we feel while towing, have been a great. It just costs more, maneuverability for daily driving sucks, and operational costs are higher then the F150. Many folks still use a 1/2T to pull the larger AS's and also seem happy. For my use driving from TX to MT and around in the Rockies each summer, I recommend the 3/4T or 1T TV for larger than AS's...

For certain people, an F250 is the right decision. It's a step up, literally as everything requires more effort to get at or get into. There are other trade-offs. Higher capacities directly correlate to higher spring rates, equaling a relatively firmer ride, if one runs the bed empty most of the time. Just useful to go in eyes wide open.

Sounds like you did the due diligence for yourself and you made the right move given how you like to travel.

[dolson]

My TV is a F150 3.5 EB. Just completed a 3500 mile trip through Rocky Mountains. Entire trip was at altitudes >5000 ft, mostly on mountain “scenic” roads. Admittedly my trailer is a lightweight (5300 # axel wt, 600# hitch wt), but I was very pleased with the performance in all conditions. Plenty of power up steep grades at altitude. Plenty of control on down grades. With transmission in “tow haul” and speed control set it would aggressively downshift to maintain (slow) speed. Or you could lock out higher gears to get same result.
My trim level has all the comfort and tech options but still have a payload of 1549#. Love the 37 gal fuel tank. Averaged 12.5 mpg on whole trip.

[Daquenzer]

The key: How do you want to drive? Where do you drive? How often do you drive?

Every consumer has to look at those questions and weigh their options. What I don’t like about some of this discussion is that everyone seems to think there’s only one solution. In actuality there are numerous solutions depending upon the circumstances of someone that is towing.

For some driving in the mountains a great deal of the time a diesel is a good way to go.
For some driving on the plains in the midwest a gas is the way to go.
For some that drive a great deal in the plains a 3/4 ton is important because of the need for more payload.
For some that drive a few times at most a month or maybe once a month for short distances and trips a 1/2 ton may be the best option.

I am in the last category. I drive on average about 4 to 6 hours from my home in Wisconsin. There are no mountains in Wisconsin or the UP. We have some of the best lakes and forests in the country that make for excellent camping experiences. I still work full time. I doubt I’ll even consider taking to the mountains for another 3 years. The F150 XLT with the Ecoboost is a great truck for me. Would I like a diesel? Sure. Does it make sense when I drive my F150 for work about 12,000 miles a year? NO!

Good article: https://rvlifemag.com/towing-half-to...e-quarter-ton/

[jcl]

Originally Posted by ZOZ

You're not alone in your observations of the 3.5L Eco Boost. That engine has a lower compression ratio 10.0:1 and does not require premium fuel and has six cylinders. The GMC 1500 6.2L 420hp/460lb/ft torque has a compression ratio of 11.5:1, requires premium fuel and has eight cylinders.

If I set the trailer brake controller at 5.5 and do the up/down grades as described in your post while in tow haul mode, the engine braking with that compression will satisfy trailering under those circumstances.

The GMC 6.2L was a better choice for me even if I want to go up to a larger AS.

zoz

The engine braking effect in a gasoline engine isn’t a function of the compression ratio, so it won’t vary with that. It is a function of the pumping losses in the engine. A larger displacement engine will typically have relatively more engine braking effect, but it is worth understanding why that is, to save people from making potentially bad decisions based on faulty assumptions.

The only time compression ratio comes into effect for retardation effect is if we are talking about a large truck diesel with a compression release brake, also known as a “Jake” brake. In that case the compression of the air in the cylinder takes work, and the engine brake opens and releases the compressed air to atmosphere. Without that device, the valves stay closed and the compressed air in the cylinder pushes the piston back down, so the only effective retardation comes from friction.

[pteck]

Originally Posted by Daquenzer

The key: How do you want to drive? Where do you drive? How often do you drive?

Every consumer has to look at those questions and weigh their options. What I don’t like about some of this discussion is that everyone seems to think there’s only one solution. In actuality there are numerous solutions depending upon the circumstances of someone that is towing.

For some driving in the mountains a great deal of the time a diesel is a good way to go.
For some driving on the plains in the midwest a gas is the way to go.
For some that drive a great deal in the plains a 3/4 ton is important because of the need for more payload.
For some that drive a few times at most a month or maybe once a month for short distances and trips a 1/2 ton may be the best option.

I am in the last category. I drive on average about 4 to 6 hours from my home in Wisconsin. There are no mountains in Wisconsin or the UP. We have some of the best lakes and forests in the country that make for excellent camping experiences. I still work full time. I doubt I’ll even consider taking to the mountains for another 3 years. The F150 XLT with the Ecoboost is a great truck for me. Would I like a diesel? Sure. Does it make sense when I drive my F150 for work about 12,000 miles a year? NO!

Good article: https://rvlifemag.com/towing-half-to...e-quarter-ton/

Absolutely agreed. Different strokes for different folks. There is no one size fits all here. And lots of variables and expectations affect the final outcome.

Outside of payload, it's interesting to note, that if the manufacture rates the F150 to tow just about any AS ever created, why some people still don't feel comfortable towing any particular AS. One should ask what their doing different, that they may or may not feel comfortable towing a relatively welterweight Airstream.

[pteck]

Originally Posted by ZOZ

You're not alone in your observations of the 3.5L Eco Boost. That engine has a lower compression ratio 10.0:1 and does not require premium fuel and has six cylinders. The GMC 1500 6.2L 420hp/460lb/ft torque has a compression ratio of 11.5:1, requires premium fuel and has eight cylinders.

I absolutely believe the observation of relatively less engine braking on account of the smaller motor...though I'm still curious whether most people are taking full advantage the available facilities.

The amount of engine braking is also very dependent on RPM. 3.5 EB drivers should take full advantage of that. Maximum engine braking will be at the highest rpm. EB's have the advantage of a lot of transmission gears to dial in just the right amount of brake.

Still way better off than say the F150 diesel. A passenger car diesel with NO engine braking facilities whatsoever. And less way less rpm to multiply what little drag it might have.

[Daquenzer]

Here are a few reasons why I think people don't feel comfortable sometimes towing with an F150:
1) Just not use to towing.
2) Don't have the right WDH set up or have it set properly.
3) May need to alter some things on the TV like tires or shocks.

I know for me 1 and 2 were biggies. As I got more experience I got more comfortable. And when I went to the Propride it was easier to get things dialed in better. I didn't try 3. But when I have to get new tires I'm going to heavier duty tire. May also put in Bilstein shocks.

[gypsydad]

Originally Posted by pteck

Absolutely agreed. Different strokes for different folks. There is no one size fits all here. And lots of variables and expectations affect the final outcome.

Outside of payload, it's interesting to note, that if the manufacture rates the F150 to tow just about any AS ever created, why some people still don't feel comfortable towing any particular AS. One should ask what their doing different, that they may or may not feel comfortable towing a relatively welterweight Airstream.

You hit the nail on the head about feeling comfortable towing a "welterweight Airstream". My point about stability and weight along with the features of the 3/4T F250 Diesel is all relative...until you are running along at 65mph, pulling a 28' or larger, and you have to hit your brakes because traffic around the blind corner coming down a hill is at a standstill. with no brake lights..happened to us last year on way to Alumalina...we are convinced if we had the F150, we would have been pushed by the 28'AS into the rear of folks stopped in front of us. Not wanting to argue with anyone; just stating our belief the smaller TV would not have fared as well in that situation...I wouldn't want anyone to have told me "you'll be fine" with a smaller TV...maybe I would, maybe I wouldn't but I was able to stop within a couple feet without skidding...convinced the size and technology in the 3/4T saved our bacon for another meal...

[pteck]

Originally Posted by gypsydad

You hit the nail on the head about feeling comfortable towing a "welterweight Airstream". My point about stability and weight along with the features of the 3/4T F250 Diesel is all relative...until you are running along at 65mph, pulling a 28' or larger, and you have to hit your brakes because traffic around the blind corner coming down a hill is at a standstill. with no brake lights..happened to us last year on way to Alumalina...we are convinced if we had the F150, we would have been pushed by the 28'AS into the rear of folks stopped in front of us. Not wanting to argue with anyone; just stating our belief the smaller TV would not have fared as well in that situation...I wouldn't want anyone to have told me "you'll be fine" with a smaller TV...maybe I would, maybe I wouldn't but I was able to stop within a couple feet without skidding...convinced the size and technology in the 3/4T saved our bacon for another meal...

Glad you came out of that situation unscathed!! And glad your setup was up to the task.

The assumption that a larger F250 stopping shorter and more stably is an arguable point. I'll say that wouldn't be where my vote is. Trucks, big trucks, aren't exactly recognized for their stopping performance. I don't disagree that the brakes are bigger and potentially stronger.

There's this not so small matter of weight. F250s are upwards of 2,000 - 3,000 lbs heavier than an F150. The brakes better be bigger! More weight doesn't like to be stopped in a shorter distance. Even under load of welterweight trailer.

[divedemo]

Hello Pick up my 23cb tomorrow.
Truck is a 2018 2.7 EB 3.73 gear towing package xlt supercap with no useless weight to carry around.
On paper this pencils out quite nicely to pull the 23.
I am still curious to see how it does on pavement.
Many thanks to all on this site. lots of great info for us novices.
Bernie
Anywhere a free man Can Go...

[CanuckStream]

Love that this thread is still alive !!


My wife decided she wanted a 2.7 ecoboost with the 3.55 rear end. Great around town, decent when towing.

Round trip (6,000 km) to South Dakota last month we averaged 19.5l/100km. Obviously most of that was towing from Ontario. Comfortable, plenty of power.

I do not think it could comfortably tow much larger. Maybe a 23-25?

Keep the comments coming !

[CanuckStream]

Originally Posted by divedemo

Hello Pick up my 23cb tomorrow.
Truck is a 2018 2.7 EB 3.73 gear towing package xlt supercap with no useless weight to carry around.
On paper this pencils out quite nicely to pull the 23.
I am still curious to see how it does on pavement.
Many thanks to all on this site. lots of great info for us novices.
Bernie
Anywhere a free man Can Go...

Jealous of the 23.

I think that is our next trailer. Bigger, but not ridiculous.

Enjoy it !

[gypsydad]

Originally Posted by CanuckStream

Jealous of the 23.

I think that is our next trailer. Bigger, but not ridiculous.

Enjoy it !

Well, if your next trailer is a 23', your next might well be a 25'. May as well look closely at the 25's while your deciding...skip the mid step.

[kscherzi]

2017 F150 3.5 Ecoboost Lariat towing a 27FB here. Tongue weight about 950 lbs. Truck payload 1660 lbs per yellow sticker. Normal dirty stuff goes in truck bed like chairs, generator, firewood, etc. Dog, wife, and me inside. All in spec according to CAT scales. Been to Alaska and back. Many times over and through the Sierra Nevada mountains. Heading to Colorado soon. Not concerned at all whether the truck can handle it.

Never had a problem with brakes getting hot or controlling down hill speed. Been up and down many very long steep grades. The Ecoboost does a good job bleeding most excessive downhill energy, revving up to 5,000 rpm, but it's meant to do that. Still need the occasional brake pump, but these are modern brakes that can take a lot of punishment and still safely stop a large load.

Not sure why so many on the forum make such a big deal about needing diesel braking. Maybe for a 15,000 lb fifth wheel?

[77walter]

Originally Posted by CanuckStream

Hey gang. Looked around and didnt see one that specifically fit. I am looking at the above in a Platinum Package.

The towing capacity, and torque numbers seem very impressive.

Is anybody currently towing ANY airstream with this truck? If so, how is it?

Thanks

Coco.

I have this model (2016 )
The best !!!!

[pteck]

Originally Posted by kscherzi

2017 F150 3.5 Ecoboost Lariat towing a 27FB here. Tongue weight about 950 lbs. Truck payload 1660 lbs per yellow sticker. Normal dirty stuff goes in truck bed like chairs, generator, firewood, etc. Dog, wife, and me inside. All in spec according to CAT scales. Been to Alaska and back. Many times over and through the Sierra Nevada mountains. Heading to Colorado soon. Not concerned at all whether the truck can handle it.

Never had a problem with brakes getting hot or controlling down hill speed. Been up and down many very long steep grades. The Ecoboost does a good job bleeding most excessive downhill energy, revving up to 5,000 rpm, but it's meant to do that. Still need the occasional brake pump, but these are modern brakes that can take a lot of punishment and still safely stop a large load.

Not sure why so many on the forum make such a big deal about needing diesel braking. Maybe for a 15,000 lb fifth wheel?

Exactly. For as many success stories there are, there's a small vocal percentage that find it lacking for whatever reason. One has to ask what they're doing differently (or wrong?), especially as the manufacturer rates and validates it for the job... and then some. Then there's the subjective expectations. There's likely lots that are new to towing and expect to drive the vehicle at the same pace and same perceived ease of engine output as a sunday drive with single driver. Yes, the engine is going to work a bit harder when you more than double the weight. Diesels work harder too, but via much more boost and cylinder pressures vs rpm.

Bob Lutz (ex GM CEO) had a popular saying. Something along the lines of "hp sells cars but Americans drive torque". It's telling. Basically we as a population don't really know how to utilize hp as we don't rev our cars. Unlike the Europeans that aren't afraid of revving their motors.

Which basically means that those that are afraid to rev their motors beyond say 3000-4000 rpm, are really missing out on the power and engine braking they paid for. Prematurely declaring that everyone must get the biggest diesel possible. For a lightweight Airstream?

Hitches are much the same story. Many many succeed with a standard hitch. Yet others, don't feel comfortable with anything but the best PPP hitch out there. Again, for a lightweight and superior towing Airstream.

[gypsydad]

Originally Posted by kscherzi

2017 F150 3.5 Ecoboost Lariat towing a 27FB here. Tongue weight about 950 lbs. Truck payload 1660 lbs per yellow sticker. Normal dirty stuff goes in truck bed like chairs, generator, firewood, etc. Dog, wife, and me inside. All in spec according to CAT scales. Been to Alaska and back. Many times over and through the Sierra Nevada mountains. Heading to Colorado soon. Not concerned at all whether the truck can handle it.

Never had a problem with brakes getting hot or controlling down hill speed. Been up and down many very long steep grades. The Ecoboost does a good job bleeding most excessive downhill energy, revving up to 5,000 rpm, but it's meant to do that. Still need the occasional brake pump, but these are modern brakes that can take a lot of punishment and still safely stop a large load.

Not sure why so many on the forum make such a big deal about needing diesel braking. Maybe for a 15,000 lb fifth wheel?

Hey, I loved driving my EB and it was a good match for the 2 25' AS's while I owned them. The only issues I had were when I was driving in very hot weather to/from Riverside to Vegas in 100+ heat; it would require me to slow down to 40-45 mph or it would heat up. Several posts on this. I also had a couple issues going down steep grades into Borrego Springs desert from San Diego, where the brakes did heat up...likely could have used the transmission more effectively to help slow manually.

When we moved up to the 28' last year, I was looking forward to just upgrading to a 2017 F150 loaded up Lariat with the EB 4x4 short bed super crew cab again. I even drove one home for 24 hours and really liked the new engine and 10speed trany...payload was only around 1500lbs with the bells and whistles I wanted, but I thought I could make it work. Wife was the one who pushed back and kept saying we should get the F250 diesel...I had driven slightly 2 used 2016 F250's, but did not like the ride, so I was very reluctant to switch....then I drove the 2017 King Ranch model; to us, it rode night and day different over the earlier models with the suspension changes they made. It was also a big cost$$ adjustment as well as size; but, it does a great job of pulling, handling, payload, and controlling speed up/down the Rockies where we spend a lot of time in the summer; If you get a chance to try one pulling your 27', I would suggest you try it and you be the judge.... That's my story, and I'm sticking to it!

[pteck]

Originally Posted by gypsydad

The only issues I had were when I was driving in very hot weather to/from Riverside to Vegas in 100+ heat; it would require me to slow down to 40-45 mph or it would heat up. Several posts on this. I also had a couple issues going down steep grades into Borrego Springs desert from San Diego, where the brakes did heat up...likely could have used the transmission more effectively to help slow manually.

I'll say it again. Revs...

Utilizing revs over grunt improves everything.

More cooling at higher rpm, more power, and more engine braking.

No fault of the F150 here. One has to learn how to use their tools to get the best out of them.

The F250 diesel does sound like it suites your driving style better however. Yet that doesn't take away from the fact that an F150 is more than up to the task.

I live in the same region and have towed my 27FB over many of the same ranges. There's no need for an F250. If that's what floats your boat, more power to you.