Flying Cloud 23FB verses 25FB

[Mikeith84]

Hello everyone.. We are considering purchasing the Flying Cloud 23FB. Our tow vehicle is a 2018 Tundra 2WD 5.7L V8. My spouse has reservation about the unit being large enough to accommodate us and our two pug dogs. We plan to use the unit for long weekends and occasionally long road trips with weeklong stays a couple of times a year. Our first Airstream was an International 23CCD and I am very confident about towing the 23.. navigating through traffic, backing into the campsite etc. Are there significant difference (challenges) in towing a 23FB verses a 25FB? Would appreciate any input you might want to share.

[Airtandem]

"BIGGER IS BETTER" and you might also look at the twin. We HAD the queen and converted it to twin. Makes a great dressing room with forward folding door in place.
As for handling, should be no problem; TV&TT good match with proper set up. Won't get onto hitch as it has been beat to death. Go with YOUR SELECTION.
MJ

[moosetags]

We have exactly the experience that you are looking for. We started out with a new 2005 Safari 25FB. We used it extensively (1,300 nights/120,000 miles) for eight years. We decided to try downsizing. In 2013, we bought a slightly used 2012 Flying Cloud 23FB. We used it extensively (150 nights/15,000 miles) for about a year.

The difference in towing and maneuvering was negligible. The difference in the living situation was more significant. We found that the layout of the 23FB was not as much to our liking as the 25FB. We really missed the bathroom/shower arrangement of the 25FB. Another thing that we found particularly troubling with the 23FB was its somewhat puny 18 gallon black tank that was not particularly conducive to our camping style. Also, the single door refrigerator in the 23FB did not really meet our needs.

After our year with the 23FB, we decided to go back to a 25FB, and traded the 23FB in on a 2015 Flying Cloud 25FB. 300 hundred nights and 35,000 miles later we are happy that we are back in a 25FB.

Brian

[gypsydad]

Agree with what "they" said! I also agree that the twin is worth considering for reasons mentioned, plus: Twin model FB has 3 outside storage compartments; the RB has 4 outside storage compartments. The RB model also includes a microwave above the fridge, and includes a window in the bath room. (wife likes the window idea). We liked the FB twin model because we have some locations where the view is out the back. Either model would be great and give you more room to spread out.

[jftompkins]

Our first AS purchase 2017 23FB....6000 mi from KS to OR; and then football weekends Manhattan, KS this past fall. Not one issue and perfect size for my wife and I. Am semi retired engineer/teacher...and can say from 25 years of pop-up to 21 ft trailer to the AS 23FB....perfect for us and so impressed with the design...(also knowing that fixes will be part of the experience). My reasoning: smallest trailer with two axles and pull with 2010 Tahoe w/tow package, full size bed rather than corner (our other trailer);....and more flexibility for campsite choices due to length. We spend a lot of time in the Yellowstone area and National Forest sites...where length can be an issue....and most of our time is cooking/meals/living in the outdoors....rather than the trailer living area. A good choice either way....

[Wayne&Sam]

25. Twin.

[interstateflyer]

25 FB Queen. Best views in campgrounds and good cuddle factor. Have had 19 and 23 corner beds. The 25 FB is miles better in livability and it tows well.

[gypsydad]

Originally Posted by jftompkins

Our first AS purchase 2017 23FB....6000 mi from KS to OR; and then football weekends Manhattan, KS this past fall. Not one issue and perfect size for my wife and I. Am semi retired engineer/teacher...and can say from 25 years of pop-up to 21 ft trailer to the AS 23FB....perfect for us and so impressed with the design...(also knowing that fixes will be part of the experience). My reasoning: smallest trailer with two axles and pull with 2010 Tahoe w/tow package, full size bed rather than corner (our other trailer);....and more flexibility for campsite choices due to length. We spend a lot of time in the Yellowstone area and National Forest sites...where length can be an issue....and most of our time is cooking/meals/living in the outdoors....rather than the trailer living area. A good choice either way....

3 25' AS's...never had a problem finding a spot to park...we always stay in National Parks...many times during the summer, including Glacier, Yellowstone, Tetons, and many other's. 25' is a great size...I like the 23...but as others have said; 25' gives everyone more room to stretch out!

[Short563]

As someone who analyzes numbers for a living, I have been looking at 23-27 foot models. According to CamperReport.com a 25 footer will fit in 93% of the National Parks. While I really like the 23FB, the 98" width is a deal breaker. In addition to the 102" width of the 25FB, it also has the option of twin beds. While my wife and I have a queen today, there seems to be an overwhelming consensus that that twins are easier to make, move around, provide more sleeping area and allow for better storage. Now if Airstream would just build a Tommy Bahama 25FB with twins I would have the perfect trailer!

[jftompkins]

Apologize ....the original question was towing; I think there is about #1000 weight difference? For some TVs’ no big deal - for my Tahoe it is.

[PKI]

Your question was - Are there problems towing the 25 as compared to a 23? It is likely more stable to tow, as the 23 is shorter from the ball to axle than the 25. The problem is the width difference (5.5"). Narrower in some cases helps. We can count one site where it really made a difference. The primary advantage to a narrow coach has been the occasional traffic situation where we fit with no touch, but proximity to hard objects made us sweat. Note - a 25 should go anywhere a semi will go.

This really is a decision that requires you to know what is important to best fit your RV lifestyle. Go sit at the dinnette of a 23. If you are OK with it after an hour, you are good to go. If for most of that hour, you wish you had a couch, look at the 25. Pat

[slowmover]

Originally Posted by jftompkins

Apologize ....the original question was towing; I think there is about #1000 weight difference? For some TVs’ no big deal - for my Tahoe it is.

Highway towing is aerodynamics. From 25’ to 34’ there’s a surprising lack of difference. The change is acceleration from a stop, and in slow speed maneuvers. Which is simply experience.

[slowmover]

Originally Posted by Short563

As someone who analyzes numbers for a living, I have been looking at 23-27 foot models. According to CamperReport.com a 25 footer will fit in 93% of the National Parks. While I really like the 23FB, the 98" width is a deal breaker. In addition to the 102" width of the 25FB, it also has the option of twin beds. While my wife and I have a queen today, there seems to be an overwhelming consensus that that twins are easier to make, move around, provide more sleeping area and allow for better storage. Now if Airstream would just build a Tommy Bahama 25FB with twins I would have the perfect trailer!

A double or queen comes into its own in the classic aluminum trailer layout of rear bath past the bedroom. The storage cabinets along the aisle facing the bed floor-to-ceiling make up for the greater utility of twins. Look to brochures of vintage kin trailers 1960s- 1980s.

That it’s also easier to keep the living areas comfortable with less propane or electricity PLUS centering the mass of weighty items at the axles is what makes the layout the default. All others have compromises in comparison.

.

[Piggy Bank]

We have the same truck except the 4x4.

Started with a 22 sport, and traded up to a 25 twin rear bed this year.

The 25 is a great size, and if you will believe Moosetags who has owned both and spent countless nights traveling, the 25 is substantially more comfortable and feature rich than the 23.

I think that the additional aisle offered with the twin would make living with dogs easier as well.

Tundra is very much up to the task. We went to Yellowstone and back last year with the 22 and this year with the 25 and had not much difference in tow feel.

Only real (very real) need to address is the tow mirror situation. The 25 is wider and the Tundra has terrible mirrors to start with.

I cannot recommend enough the McKesh mirrors. Made a huge difference in comfort of towing. With our previous "snap on" tow mirrors we could not see around the width of the 25 and had to do some guesswork and the lane wiggle to see behind. With the McKesh mirrors, and especially with the added round convex spots on each one, you can see merging lanes to the sides, and also behind the rig. Order online on the Hensely hitch website.

[jftompkins]

Originally Posted by slowmover

Highway towing is aerodynamics. From 25’ to 34’ there’s a surprising lack of difference. The change is acceleration from a stop, and in slow speed maneuvers. Which is simply experience.

“Aerodynamic” yes with a few caveats ie. July between Cheyenne and Laramie WY trying to climb a mountain pass going 40 mph; 96 degF outdoor temp on I-80 watching the transmission temp climb each mile in order to get to the top....#1000 lbs less is value added IF TV lite.....

[RamRider]

Towing, I do not think you will find any difference between the 23 or 25. your Tundra has plenty of power for either one. But I do think that the 25 is a significant up grade in living space, We are small folks so the queen bed works very well for us and our 50 lb dog I am the one on the narrow bed side and have learned to navigate it with out scarring up my head. We like traveling in the higher elevations of west Texas and eastern New Mexico and have had no towing or over heating issues with the higher elevations. Thin about your traveling companions, they will appreciate the extra space for their food bowls on the floor!

[Rgentum]

Minority Report: The 25 is a great trailer. The 27 is even better. I suggest that you spend half an hour walking back & forth between the interiors of a 25 & a 27 before making any decision. Like yourself, my sweetie and I thought the 25 would be right for us --- until we spent time in the 27, which is not that much more in terms of length or weight, but, at least in our experience, a whole lot more in terms of livability. We've gone 30K miles in ours during the last two summers, and if I had to buy another AS, it would be the 27 again, without question (particularly because we want the queen, "walk-around" bed --- if you want twins, there's probably not that much significant difference between them).

[Roadtech]

Originally Posted by Rgentum

Minority Report: The 25 is a great trailer. The 27 is even better. I suggest that you spend half an hour walking back & forth between the interiors of a 25 & a 27 before making any decision. Like yourself, my sweetie and I thought the 25 would be right for us --- until we spent time in the 27, which is not that much more in terms of length or weight, but, at least in our experience, a whole lot more in terms of livability. We've gone 30K miles in ours during the last two summers, and if I had to buy another AS, it would be the 27 again, without question (particularly because we want the queen, "walk-around" bed --- if you want twins, there's probably not that much significant difference between them).

Its interesting that the hitch weight of the 27' is 46 lbs lighter than the 25', according to AS specs.

[greghoro]

Originally Posted by Piggy Bank

Only real (very real) need to address is the tow mirror situation. The 25 is wider and the Tundra has terrible mirrors to start with.

I cannot recommend enough the McKesh mirrors. Made a huge difference in comfort of towing. With our previous "snap on" tow mirrors we could not see around the width of the 25 and had to do some guesswork and the lane wiggle to see behind. With the McKesh mirrors, and especially with the added round convex spots on each one, you can see merging lanes to the sides, and also behind the rig. Order online on the Hensely hitch website.

We have a Sequoia but its front end is very similar to Tundra and they share the same mirrors. Agree that the sport mirrors don't provide a good enough view for towing.

However, instead of the McKesh mirrors, you may want to look into replacing the stock sport mirrors with the large Tundra tow mirrors that extend out. Like Piggy Bank, we initially went to the McKesh mirrors but didn't like the fiddling around we had to do every time we installed them for towing and purchased/installed the Toyota towing mirrors.

Downside of Toyota mirrors is they are more expensive than McKesh and require that you remove the inside door panels to install. I did this at a campsite, so its not that daunting and there are several Youtube videos on how to do it. You will need some small metric sockets. The upside is that they are more integrated, can be adjusted using the standard inside buttons and can be defrosted using the heater controls. However, in conjunction with the two additional mirrors, the McKesh solution provides better rear viewing (3 mirrors vs 2).

DO NOT purchase aftermarket copies of the Toyota, stick with the genuine factory option.

If you do go the McKesh route, I can sell you the lightly used pair I have for less than Hensley with an added feature of including some fuzzy protectors for the straps.


Greg

[Lil Bear]

If you’re looking at the 25’s you might want to consider going justcactad longer and look at the 26U.

We liked the 26U has all the bathroom space in one privy versus the shower across the hall. Also the rear queen provides great views in the mornings as we are always backed into a campsite. The versatile U-Shaped dinette up front gives great space for lounging, computer working and can make into a huge lounge/bed with tables dropped.

For these Streamers the 26U is the best floodplan AS offers under 30 feet.