Fishtailed for first time

[PaulnGina]

Good grief.......

[GMFL]

Originally Posted by slowmover

Your conclusions (whomever believes that) aren’t borne out by facts. Both in terms of insurance coverage and what in fact DOES constitute “safety”. My experience — personal and professional — indeed does give perspective others might not have, but the education is available. You won’t find the word “safe” used by the vehicle manufacturers without a terrific number of qualifications. In short, not at all what you believe (magic thinking)

Yours is the dangerous combination compared to those better chosen. Far more likely to wreck based solely on the TV, and wrecks far more likely to be self-induced. (Yeah!! Thats the one I want for my family!).

You can start with what you DONT understand about manufacturers guidelines. Plenty of SAE papers that, even when badly done (and some are) illuminate the difficulty of A=B=C.

In short, your TT is the best design. Your TV, the absolute worst.

Some facts should stick out. The pickup tendency to roll over. It’s very high. Rollovers are 3% of serious accidents. 25% of fatalities. And when not fatal, terrific life-changing injuries. These are most likely to happen on clear days and on straight roads. As simple as — likeliest to be — trying to correct from bumping a curb, or having a steer tire drop two inches off the pavement. (Buh Bye)

But, “you” (whomever) wants to believe only a pickup can be used (everyone else does; lemming-think). Even though we’ve showed time and again how WD works. TW ISN'T a problem. You want it to be.

God forbid your golf buddies saw you in mommy’s SUV or minivan.

The HP/Weight Ratio. Better than a pickup. Braking ability, same. And most of all, (like this TT) the ability to stay upright in a test. A slalom. A demonstration of what happens in the moment of a rollover. Caused by using a pickup. As other vehicle designs wouldn’t have been upset.

You wanted it, you got it. So, to mirror your question, why on earth would you advise others that it’s a good choice? (What’s the weight of the gear which CANNOT under any circumstance be carried in the TT or TV passenger compartment? That’s the demonstration of HOW your advice “might” be worth considering).

The usual comeback is how so many others are just fine with pickups. But a serious wreck need only be once. Like being gunshot. Guys like yourself believe it advisable to travel in a war zone unarmed and without armor. Despite the fact that a single shot has life-changing or ending probabilities.

You won’t be able to shout over the laughter by claiming skilled driving and good habits will save the day. EVERYONE is prone to a moments inattention. Of being ill. Of being confused or overtired. Ones personal abilities, skill or luck are perfectly irrelevant to a vehicle discussion.

And you’ve wholly ignored that the majority of miles (even for full timers) are solo. And likely NOT loaded for camping. Thus worsening the already bad proclivities of a pickup.

You don’t ever exceed 62-mph in that thing, do you? They’re barely able to stay upright past 55 if anything at all gets funny. Solo. (Towing, it’s worse).

Sure, what’s different about your experience and mine is that I’ll keep mine out of situations you don’t recognize as a problem. Or, that I know the solution already. Doesn’t change bad vehicle spec. Needs to be other reasons to use one.

Ever allow less than 200’ or separation between you and others? May as well start there. Cancelling cruise and slowing to 15-mph or more below other traffic to get them away is SOP. Doesn’t matter in the least that the others are moving away. It’s NEVER acceptable. Not for even a short amount of time.

You’re the crippled animal near a herd. Can’t do anything but continue in a straight line AND can’t stop. Nothing but disadvantage. (Yeah, sign me up for one a them things).

Same thing with the other high COG and straight axle 4WD vehicles. What they’re called doesn’t matter.

(Th funniest line of late I see is that pickups are “designed for towing”).

Shall I keep going? “You” (whomever) is never serious as a student. So what would be the point? Besides that it’s easy to fix. Easy to set hitch rigging. And easy to acquire better driving habits.

I take it for granted that the worst AS owners are in pickups. I’m not ever disappointed. That proof is available to anyone on the highways.

.

WOWZA!
Can’t believe I read all of that.
I thought we were talking about to much weight behind the axles not pickup trucks.
He’s a Angry guy.

And towing outside the manufacturer spec will make you liable in an accident. Lawyer would eat you alive.

[ITSNO60]

I'm sort of confused a bit here slowmover, I have driven pickups all my life and realize they are not exactly built for slalom type handling or sudden maneuvers at highway speeds but, and you have probably explained this before, I noticed you tow with one, why is that? What do you consider a good choice for towing say a 25 foot AS?

Forgive me if this has been hashed over before but I haven't seen it.

[tjdonahoe]

Originally Posted by ITSNO60

I'm sort of confused a bit here slowmover, I have driven pickups all my life and realize they are not exactly built for slalom type handling or sudden maneuvers at highway speeds but, and you have probably explained this before, I noticed you tow with one, why is that? What do you consider a good choice for towing say a 25 foot AS?

Forgive me if this has been hashed over before but I haven't seen it.

I also have driven pickups all my life, since 1962, sudden maneuvers? Stay awake and you won’t have any, sudden maneuvers ? You want to roll it? An animal...like a deer..hit it head on and walk away....my last one only cost a $100 plastic grille....you roll it, you may die...simple as that..same as in a big truck..

[Countryboy59]

Originally Posted by ITSNO60

I'm sort of confused a bit here slowmover, I have driven pickups all my life and realize they are not exactly built for slalom type handling or sudden maneuvers at highway speeds but, and you have probably explained this before, I noticed you tow with one, why is that? What do you consider a good choice for towing say a 25 foot AS?

Forgive me if this has been hashed over before but I haven't seen it.

I know why I tow with one, even knowing how many get rolled every day. I’m a mature driver; I don’t swerve. I get “cut off” as some people call it, a hundred times a week. I don’t understand why anyone needs “slalom like handling” when towing an airstream.

[SteveSueMac]

Here's a guess - first, Slow was arguing that the "insurance won't pay" theme itself was wrong. I agree. They'll likely pay - once. And then your premiums are going to quadruple....

As for why tow with a PU truck when they're not the best. Is it because life is full of compromises and at least as a professional big rig driver, Slow has skills honed over years most don't?

This is me guessing.

Frankly - I'd LOVE to have more of a big station wagon like my parents had (a 64 (?) BelAir with a 455 and 3-speed on the column) only with the drivetrain I have in my 2013 3/4T diesel Silverado. [emoji3]

I love what the truck can do for towing - just hate it for the non-towing duties.

With Ford getting out of cars and sticking with SUVs and Trucks, the rest can't be too far behind. I would love to see a lower to the ground behemoth diesel towing station wagon but I'd have to pay to have a one-off -that's not happening.....

[RickP]

So appreciate all the input here! What started this thread was my bad idea of mounting a rear bike rack on my 23' AS and loading around 200lbs on the a-end of the trailer. VERY bad idea. My 2017 Yukon Denali with 6.2 engine has been a solid tow vehicle and never had an issue hauling from Dana Point, CA to Missouri and back last summer. Survived 50mph winds on way home over Cajon Pass while 5th wheels were pulled off to the side. My Blue Ox hitch never let me down until I loaded bikes on the rear. Just happy to have survived the lesson. Thanks for the input everyone.

[OTRA15]

Thanks for the update, and echoing earlier comments that applying the trailer brakes first was a wise move!

Happy Trails . . .

Peter

[GMFL]

Originally Posted by OTRA15

Thanks for the update, and echoing earlier comments that applying the trailer brakes first was a wise move!

Happy Trails . . .

Peter

Yes applying trailer breaks on the fly like that was the right move to make under pressure. Great reaction.

[CruizinDux]

IMO, know your true tongue weight (i.e. adarondeck post) and understand exactly how interior loading affects it. I have a fiamma w/2 bikes at 63 lbs, but also use the FW/interior loading ( we use the rear shower as driving storage) to get to the TW target,generally 11/12% of axle weight. I use an equalizer hitch and have been thru some extremely windy situations...tows straight and true.

Never had to manually apply TT brakes yet, but that is the best strategy. Post re bumping up the # on downhill makes great sense. Go down in the accending gear is good stratgey.

B

[Jonesuh]

i'm very new to Airstream--this post begs a questions
where is the weight of the fresh black & gray tank relative to the axles?

do you travel with full or minimal fresh water --same for waste?

[n2916s]

I always travel with the water tank full. The weight lowers the CG and it is nice if you get stuck in a boondocking situation.

Usually dump before getting under so black and grey empty.

[Muriel 1]

I always travel with full fresh water tank.
Full propane tanks.
Very little loaded in coach.
Rides like a dream!
Tom

[OTRA15]

The loading of the water tank must be assessed in light of the tank's relationship to the axles, and to the weight distribution inside the trailer.

There is no single "correct" level to aim for IMO.

For instance, our FC20 water tank is smack at the rear. If the rest of the trailer is loaded lightly, a full water tank will definitely introduce hints of sway. At 1/2 full there is much less tendency to sway.

In other trailers the water tank is more centrally located, so the favorable percentage is more flexible.

One size does not fit all . . .

FWIW

[Muriel 1]

Gee whiz OTRA.
Does it always have to be so complicated.
It seems most folk travel with full water and propane. Lowers center of gravity.
Propane in case it gets cold at the overnight stop and runs fridge.
Just saying
Tom

[Rocinante]

For our 27FB, full fresh & propane with empty grey / black works out well.

[OTRA15]

Originally Posted by Muriel 1

Gee whiz OTRA.
Does it always have to be so complicated.
It seems most folk travel with full water and propane. Lowers center of gravity.
Propane in case it gets cold at the overnight stop and runs fridge.
Just saying
Tom

Just sayin' that yes it is different -- not complicated -- for particular trailers, maybe just smaller single-axle ones? I promise you that when our FC20 is lightly loaded, and the fresh water tank is full hanging right at the stern, she is prone to sway when a truck goes by, or a strong cross-wind.

The "most folks" broad brush approach simply does not represent good advice in certain situations. Such generalities simply don't work everywhere -- one size does not fit all. With all the newcomers here such advice can expose some folks to unnecessary risk IMO.

Just sayin' . . .

[Countryboy59]

Originally Posted by OTRA15

Just sayin' that yes it is different -- not complicated -- for particular trailers, maybe just smaller single-axle ones? I promise you that when our FC20 is lightly loaded, and the fresh water tank is full hanging right at the stern, she is prone to sway when a truck goes by, or a strong cross-wind.

The "most folks" broad brush approach simply does not represent good advice in certain situations. Such generalities simply don't work everywhere -- one size does not fit all. With all the newcomers here such advice can expose some folks to unnecessary risk IMO.

Just sayin' . . .

If you have to empty the fresh water tank to tow it something is wrong with your setup. Should tow just fine either way.

[OTRA15]

Agree -- it's the "lightly loaded" trailer, which rarely happens. [Low tongue weight as a result] The main point was that broad brush statements general statements about tank % and loading are not always accurate.

Thanks,

Peter

[RandyNH]

Originally Posted by Muriel 1

Gee whiz OTRA.
Does it always have to be so complicated.
It seems most folk travel with full water and propane. Lowers center of gravity.
Propane in case it gets cold at the overnight stop and runs fridge.
Just saying
Tom

On the contrary, what he pointed it isn't complicated, and for those who may not have considered it and just read other parts of the thread, traveling with the incorrect tank full can have more of an adverse affect than a rear bike rack.