F-250 Gas or Diesel????

[NHdigger]

I am in the process of selling my 7mpg MH and planning on a 25-30' AS. The 30' Classic is what I really like.
For a TV I am looking at a F250 and would appreciate some info on the 6.2L gas as opposed to the diesel. I think there are a lot of additional costs associated with the diesel.

We live in NH with plenty of hills and plan on seeing the country in retirement.

[65CV]

ntrocks

Diesel rocks.

Will never go back -- especially for a cross country trip.

If the price is the same, expect 30% better mileage, on average, based on the amount of energy present in each gallon of fuel. (Google BTUs per gallon for more detail).

See Consumer Reports for individual vehicles.

John

[Bill M.]

Maybe you got some reason other than mpg to make the change? Sure, you might get a little better mpg pulling the trailer than driving the MH. But then when you unhook you are driving a low mpg truck rather than a fuel efficient towed. I bet overall the motorhomers make out with less fuel than us trailer people. I know we like to unhook and go see the area so we run many more miles unhooked than actually towing on most of our trips.
I know people who have gone both ways on the 250 gas vs diesel question. They both think they did it right well after the purchase. It is not cheap either way. I love pulling with my diesel.

[bilby05]

I have a 2001 Ford F250 Diesel, 7.3. It's great. I also hear good things about the 6.0. The 7.3 pulls our 31' Sovereign like it's not there. The mileage is around 15mpg, towing or not. Diesel fuel is a bit higher and it holds 14 quarts of oil, so it costs a bit more to change the oil. In terms of maintenance it seems about like other pickups I have owned. If I was to get a new one I'd get a diesel (if I could afford it). But this one seems to be doing just fine for now.
cheers, bill b.

[thecatsandi]

30 classic, diesel. I tow a 31 classic. first with gas then diesel. I still have the diesel.

[Friday]

If you are going 3/4 ton... you might as well go diesel...

[Hibby]

I can't speak to the 6.2l gas, but I owned a 2003 F250 5.4l gas, and sold it a couple of years ago to buy a 6.4l diesel.

When in tow/haul mode, the gas engine ran 3500 rpm and averaged 9-10 mpg towing our 26' boat on a double axle trailer. The mileage was terrible, and I felt like the engine was screaming all the time.

We still own the same boat (and now a 30' Flying Cloud). When towing either trailer with the new F250 diesel, we routinely run 1750 to 1800 rpm and our mileage is still in the 9 to 10 range. Diesel fuel is usually at a premium by $.30 per gallon, and just to buy the diesel engine increases the price of the truck by about $4500. You will be hard-pressed to come out ahead over time due tonfuel cost by buying the diesel truck unless you put many many miles on it. However you will also come out ahead when you sell the truck by having higher resale value than a gas truck.

Keep in mind that my vehicle is a 2010. The new 2011 models have a more fuel efficient 6.7 L scorpion engine. Many of the problems with the 2010 fuel efficiency are a result of emissions control equipment. I am sorely disappointed with the mileage I get on my diesel, especially when gas is $.30 cheaper per gallon. However, having said that, I truly believe that the diesel engine is a much better engine all around.

I love that my truck has so much power and low end torque that towing a 9000# trailer puts no strain on the vehicle. I'm sure I'd buy another diesel, but not for imroved mileage. Some of the new gassers (like the Ford Ecoboost) are amazing engines with great torque and horsepower.

Try borrowing both to give it a test run!

[AIR-Quarius]

All of you need to get a diesel fitter.

[Hibby]

Originally Posted by AIR-Quarius

All of you need to get a diesel fitter.

Let me guess, Air-Quarius.... Certainly you should know someone that should destribute such a fine product.

Do tell
,

Hibby

[AIR-Quarius]

Yes, A diesel fitter is the sales person that goes into the back of the clothing store and returns back to the customer saying...DIESEL FITTER!
lol

[colberjs]

My vote is diesel. I have a 2011 F-250 with the 6.7 and I love it!!! Lots of power and if you keep your foot out of it 19-20 mpg is not unreasonable highway mileage when unloaded. I got 19.5 from here in OK to New Orleans. And although it takes more oil, the oil changes should be less frequent.

[nilesrob]

I've had 3 Ford diesels: 7.3, 6.0 and now the 6.4, and have enjoyed them all. There are a lot of good opinions out there on gas/diesel, but one of the benefits that I enjoy from having a diesel is I have installed a 50 gallon auxiliary fuel tank, providing me with a total of 80 gallon capacity.

Now it is no joy when you are filling up from empty, but it substantially reduces our fuel stops, and allows us a little more economic benefit because we can load up when the price of fuel is lowest. It has been really helpful traveling out west where distances between fuel stops can increase. It does take up some real estate in the truck bed, but is low enough to fit under our tonneau cover.

All in all, I'm not seeing a gas truck anytime in my future. I will cross 100,000 miles in my 2008 F250 in the next 2 weeks and have had VERY few issues to date; hope to keep it running for years to come.

[gmw photos]

They long debated gas vs diesel !
My opinion, is if the cost does not bother you, and/or if you really need 600 or more ft-lbs of torque, then diesel.

But if you can get by with the lesser torque of a gas engine for the job at hand, then it probably holds something of a cost advantage, at least until you get out to 200,000 miles or so for that vehicle. We have a (small) variety of both ( and even have a hybrid in the mix now ), and I see the pros and cons of both gas and diesel.

In my opinion, the jury is still out on the new 6.7 PSTD....it's still too new to see a good mix of them out there with a lot miles. We shall see.
Our 2006 6.0 has been one of them that's been a bit of a problem child. Still when it runs, it pulls well, and when we drop the over 12K pound horse trailer on the back of it, it moves nicely.

[slowmover]

Originally Posted by nhrocks

I am in the process of selling my 7mpg MH and planning on a 25-30' AS. The 30' Classic is what I really like.
For a TV I am looking at a F250 and would appreciate some info on the 6.2L gas as opposed to the diesel. I think there are a lot of additional costs associated with the diesel.

We live in NH with plenty of hills and plan on seeing the country in retirement.

I'd skip the 3/4T and just go 1T . . there is no substantial difference in the solo ride, but the extra payload capacity (for gear and a heavy tongue weight) will make you happier, IMO.

As to gas versus diesel: The newest turbocharged diesels have highly complex (and problematic) emissions systems. Fuel economy is back up over post 2006 versions with the use of DEF (diesel exhaust fluid: the engine can now be tuned for better mpg) which pays for itself (a non-starter for avoidance as it can be found everywhere today).

But, without reference to vehicle brand, the HP/TQ numbers on these now highly expensive trucks are overkill for any Airstream ever made. More is not better. The gasoline engines are far better than ever before and have pretty well the same expected service life (they got better, and diesels are likely not much better than 250k B50 life any more) as the introduction of direct injection gasoline engines is a game-changer.

That, coupled with 7 and 8 speed automatics on the near horizon makes gasoline pickup trucks more desirable than they've been in over twenty years (the mid-90's turbocharged Cummins in the Dodge was the opposite swing of the pendulum).

One can rest assured that whatever the truck engine redline (top rpm) that it will run at that speed all day, everyday and not falter. Vapor lock, altitude changes and other past demons of hot, hard-running engines are pretty well a thing of the past. And transmission controls to give "engine braking" while on a descent are described as being more than satisfactory.

Read around and plan well. But, the better approach would be in securing a Pro-Pride hitch, DIRECLINK brake controller and the budget for trailer disc brakes. The Gold Standard. An Airstream can outhandle/outbrake any pickup truck, thus it is the truck that most needs help in stability and steering control is an off-aspect way of looking at this.

Brute force isn't the necessary approach. The tow vehicle needing the least amount of power to pull this trailer (of a design which minimizes fuel burn) and is set up with the best hitch & brakes is the better combination. And a pickup truck is not the default choice except as folks tend to carry too much junk with them . . my grandparents and parents used full-sze and luxury American cars of the 1960's and '70's to cover most of North America as well as Mexico . . . what were they losing out on by not carrying an extra kitchen sink? (is the thinking). IOW, move more to a clean sheet of paper. What "most RV'ers" do is done without planning or thinking things through too well.

Have a look at the posts & threads of contributor Andrew T of Can Am RV to see what can be done (and what was once done) by those wanting to travel a bit lighter with a better-handling, better-braking TV than a pickup truck.

Not suggesting you change your plans, but I am suggesting that this is to help better shape the diesel versus gasoline debate when towing an Airstream as convention is not what it seems when one digs a bit more deeply (and plans/packs more carefully).

The recent threads on this forum by phbarnhart are worth your while to see how a rig can come together: best hitch and setting it up on a certified scale, trailer disc brakes (with state of the art controller and near-future trailer ABS; on his list, I think), as well as the very best trailer wheel size and tires of proper load rating is more to the point than any "check the engine box" discussion around here.

The weight given to the tow vehicle decisions is unduly heavy compared to where it belongs once one has chosen an aerodynamic, lightweight, all-aluminum, low center-of-gravity, low ground clearance travel trailer with fully independent suspension. That was the important decision.

As tow vehicles come and go (and a minivan can tow an A/S of any size, weight is not the primary consideration) since the TT is the permanent acquistion. Thus the TV is not nearly so critical as it may change more often. And a wider range of vehicles are suitable. Choose the particular A/S trailer and outfit it with top hitch, brakes and controller. And then choose from a wider variety of TV's as you will.

Besides, this thread topic has already been done to death over the past few years. Conduct some searches and bring your questions back to this thread (with links as necessary) and contributors can point you in directions dependent on what you've encountered.

Welcome to AIR, nhrocks.

.

[Wayward]

I went with the new F250 6.2L gas and 6sp combo and do not miss the old Chevy diesel we had before it. My opinion is that the broad torque curve, 6 gears and excellent engine/tranny controller programs keep this truck in the right gear at the right time. It is impressive. I wrote up my initial impressions a while ago

I've not been lacking for power pulling the Airstream even in the hills, or pulling our cargo trailer. The initial cost was significantly lower and I do sure not miss the higher diesel maintenance costs.

Of course there is no substitute for the raw torque of the new diesels for serious load hauling but, for what I pull and will be pulling, I am very happy with the gasser.

[davenpow]

I wouldn't trade my F250 6.7 diesel for any thing. Towing my 1975 31' is and absolute dream! Better millage the the hemi chrysler Aspen we sold. 18.5 to 19 mpg towing isn't bad.
Ted

[Skater]

I love my diesel, but I'll think long and hard before buying another. Some of the downsides:

1. Water in fuel. I quickly learned to hate this, and to drain the fuel separator. I had a bad tank when I first bought the truck, and I had it all cleaned out (draining the separator multiple times), then we got another one when we were going to pick up the camper. Gah. Over a year later, I haven't had it happen again, so that's good.

2. Noisy. Newer ones are better about this, but I feel bad rolling through a campground breaking the silence.

3. Diesel fuel is more expensive now, and I'm not sure the improved mileage is enough to offset the additional expense.

4. Slow off the line - sometimes I feel like I should've requested power a few minutes ago. This is worse with the trailer obviously, but even when not towing, it can take a moment for the turbo to get its act together and get you rolling, instead of the instant reaction of a gas engine. Newer ones are better about this, too. I've also learned to feather the throttle a bit more to get that initial movement quicker.

5. Newer ones require Diesel Exhaust Fluid every so often. Not a huge deal, but it's yet another liquid to worry about under the hood, in addition to the coolant, oil, brake fluid, power steering fluid, and washer fluid.

6. Fewer gas stations carry diesel. This turned into an interesting situation during the recent blackout in our area - most of the stations that do carry diesel didn't have power (bad luck, really - but the point remains that there are fewer stations with diesel).

There are plenty of things I love about it, like when I was towing our trailer up the mountains on the turnpike in Pennsylvania and looked down and realized I was doing 70 mph - it just has a ton of power. Or when I can pull into a truck stop for fuel - it's so much easier to get in and out of them, and the credit card limits are much higher, so the pump doesn't switch off on me prematurely.

It'll be a tough decision when it comes time for us to replace our truck.

[colberjs]

Originally Posted by Skater

I love my diesel, but I'll think long and hard before buying another. Some of the downsides:

1. Water in fuel. I quickly learned to hate this, and to drain the fuel separator. I had a bad tank when I first bought the truck, and I had it all cleaned out (draining the separator multiple times), then we got another one when we were going to pick up the camper. Gah. Over a year later, I haven't had it happen again, so that's good.

2. Noisy. Newer ones are better about this, but I feel bad rolling through a campground breaking the silence.

3. Diesel fuel is more expensive now, and I'm not sure the improved mileage is enough to offset the additional expense.

4. Slow off the line - sometimes I feel like I should've requested power a few minutes ago. This is worse with the trailer obviously, but even when not towing, it can take a moment for the turbo to get its act together and get you rolling, instead of the instant reaction of a gas engine. Newer ones are better about this, too. I've also learned to feather the throttle a bit more to get that initial movement quicker.

5. Newer ones require Diesel Exhaust Fluid every so often. Not a huge deal, but it's yet another liquid to worry about under the hood, in addition to the coolant, oil, brake fluid, power steering fluid, and washer fluid.

6. Fewer gas stations carry diesel. This turned into an interesting situation during the recent blackout in our area - most of the stations that do carry diesel didn't have power (bad luck, really - but the point remains that there are fewer stations with diesel).

There are plenty of things I love about it, like when I was towing our trailer up the mountains on the turnpike in Pennsylvania and looked down and realized I was doing 70 mph - it just has a ton of power. Or when I can pull into a truck stop for fuel - it's so much easier to get in and out of them, and the credit card limits are much higher, so the pump doesn't switch off on me prematurely.

It'll be a tough decision when it comes time for us to replace our truck.

May ask what make and model you drive? I have a 2011 F-250 with 6.7 diesel and:

1- I have had no problems with water in fuel as I try to fill up at places that see a high volume of diesel traffic as the fuel will be fresher and lest time for it to collect accumulations of water and trash.

2- I've had peoe comment on multiple occasions that they didn't even know my truck was running and thought it was a gas as I accelerated away.

3- Can't argue the price but efficiency is debatable.

4- Mine is definitely not slow off the line. There is minimal turbo lag compared to my '06 6.0 liter.

5- DEF is only about 20-25 to fill up every oil change. I've put 33k miles on mine and never had to add DEF except at regular scheduled oil changes. And the technology allows for better MPG's as stated earlier.

6- Here in Oklahoma approx. 80% of stations have diesel fuel. There is a diesel fuel finder iPhone app that is handy.

[handn]

Put me in the gas camp.
I have a 2000 diesel Excursion with 200k miles and don't plan on getting rid of it anytime soon.
When it is time, I will get a gasser.
Reasons:
1. Expense, new diesels are eye poppingly expensive. Many of the post 2005 used ones have well documented problems. You can get a nice new gasser truck for under 40k
2. Emission control systems on the new diesels are complex and extract a fuel consumption penalty. I travel in Mexico where ultra low sulphur fuel is not available. Put the wrong fuel in it and you are looking at expensive repair bill. As other posters have said, the emission technology is too new to see if long term reliability will be effected.
3. For towing 10k lbs and under, the Ford and Chevy 6 litre plus gas engines and multi speed transmissions are more than adequate.
4. Gas is cheaper. Diesels get better mpg, but it takes many many miles to recover the cost the diesel vehicle and more expensive fuel.
5. 15 mpg towing a 10,000 trailer? Give me a break. My Safari is 6300 gvw, I drive conservatively and get 11-12.5 towing and 18 solo with a pre-smogged 7.3. A new gasser might get 9-10.5 towing and 15-16 solo. Do the math, it will take many years and many miles to recover the cost of diesel.

[newroswell]

Since we're actually talking about the Fords... I have a little experience with that. I actually drove 6.2L gas and the 6.7L diesel quiet a bit before buying the diesel.

On the noise level, the gasser actually has a nice growl to it. Only a little quieter at or near idle. I'm positive it's not quieter making power above 2,500 RPM's vs the diesel at 1,600 RPM's. It'll be very quiet cabin pulling those long steep grades.

On fuel stations, the few times I've been in a situation were there wasn't diesel, you wouldn't want to buy it in such a remote location if you can possibly avoid it anyway. A good example is Death Valley. Last time I was there, out of the two stations, only one had diesel, but at both places, fuel was at least 50% more than fuel in civilization 100 miles away (I've heard they both have diesel now, and gas and diesel is still 50% more). With the diesel you have the option of going with 50 or even 65 gallon tank. Pick a high volume, good price place that's easy to get in/out of to fill up. After the same thing happen in the Big Sur area, we bought the Titan Tank, which we had planned to do from the begging, not because we couldn't find diesel, but all fuel is crazy expensive in remote locations.

On DEF, as said above, it's really a non issue. It's everywhere. It's cheap. You can go thousands of miles on the 5 gallon tank. The DEF system has allowed the engineers to get the MPG's back up. The heads-up display alert will let you know when you have 2,500 miles to go, then pretty much every time you start up at 800, then it's into limp mode limiting you to 55. This is all mandated by law and applies to all brands including the big rigs...

On bad fuel, it can happen to gas also! The gas engines are not setup as well to deal with it. My brother-in-law got a slug of bad gas and limped home, with trailer, over 90 miles going 25MPH, in the middle of the night. I bought and carry under the seat the motorcraft (set) of filters in case just draining the separator won't get you going again (around $50 online). Both of these are ultra simple to drain and replace on the newer diesels (not just Fords).

All that being said, the diesel is a horrible investment for many people. I've joked before about buying a truck based on a spreadsheet, but if you don't clearly need the diesel, you really need to do some calculations to if it's worth it. The added power is a value item in the safety column (breaking away from a cluster of idiots in the mountains lowers the stress levels). Resell value is another. No Airstream needs a diesel truck, but sometimes the things you want to bring with it does.