Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 07-10-2012, 10:13 PM   #15
Rivet Master
 
Wayward's Avatar
 
2006 25' Safari FB SE
Cary , North Carolina
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 803
I went with the new F250 6.2L gas and 6sp combo and do not miss the old Chevy diesel we had before it. My opinion is that the broad torque curve, 6 gears and excellent engine/tranny controller programs keep this truck in the right gear at the right time. It is impressive. I wrote up my initial impressions a while ago

I've not been lacking for power pulling the Airstream even in the hills, or pulling our cargo trailer. The initial cost was significantly lower and I do sure not miss the higher diesel maintenance costs.

Of course there is no substitute for the raw torque of the new diesels for serious load hauling but, for what I pull and will be pulling, I am very happy with the gasser.
__________________

__________________
2006 Safari SE FB
2000 F150 4.2L
2011 F250 6.2L
Raleigh, NC
Wayward is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-10-2012, 10:28 PM   #16
2 Rivet Member
 
davenpow's Avatar
 
1975 31' Sovereign
Canby , Oregon
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 79
I wouldn't trade my F250 6.7 diesel for any thing. Towing my 1975 31' is and absolute dream! Better millage the the hemi chrysler Aspen we sold. 18.5 to 19 mpg towing isn't bad.
Ted
__________________

__________________
davenpow is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-11-2012, 08:50 AM   #17
Rivet Master
 
Skater's Avatar
 
1995 30' Excella
Bowie , Maryland
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 2,344
I love my diesel, but I'll think long and hard before buying another. Some of the downsides:

1. Water in fuel. I quickly learned to hate this, and to drain the fuel separator. I had a bad tank when I first bought the truck, and I had it all cleaned out (draining the separator multiple times), then we got another one when we were going to pick up the camper. Gah. Over a year later, I haven't had it happen again, so that's good.

2. Noisy. Newer ones are better about this, but I feel bad rolling through a campground breaking the silence.

3. Diesel fuel is more expensive now, and I'm not sure the improved mileage is enough to offset the additional expense.

4. Slow off the line - sometimes I feel like I should've requested power a few minutes ago. This is worse with the trailer obviously, but even when not towing, it can take a moment for the turbo to get its act together and get you rolling, instead of the instant reaction of a gas engine. Newer ones are better about this, too. I've also learned to feather the throttle a bit more to get that initial movement quicker.

5. Newer ones require Diesel Exhaust Fluid every so often. Not a huge deal, but it's yet another liquid to worry about under the hood, in addition to the coolant, oil, brake fluid, power steering fluid, and washer fluid.

6. Fewer gas stations carry diesel. This turned into an interesting situation during the recent blackout in our area - most of the stations that do carry diesel didn't have power (bad luck, really - but the point remains that there are fewer stations with diesel).

There are plenty of things I love about it, like when I was towing our trailer up the mountains on the turnpike in Pennsylvania and looked down and realized I was doing 70 mph - it just has a ton of power. Or when I can pull into a truck stop for fuel - it's so much easier to get in and out of them, and the credit card limits are much higher, so the pump doesn't switch off on me prematurely.

It'll be a tough decision when it comes time for us to replace our truck.
__________________
1995 Airstream Classic 30' Excella 1000
2014 Ram 2500 Crew Cab with Cummins 6.7L Diesel

Sold but not forgotten: 1991 Airstream B190
Sold: 2006 F-250 6.0L Powerstroke Supercab
Skater is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-11-2012, 12:59 PM   #18
4 Rivet Member
 
colberjs's Avatar
 
1964 30' Sovereign
Porum , Oklahoma
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 421
Quote:
Originally Posted by Skater View Post
I love my diesel, but I'll think long and hard before buying another. Some of the downsides:

1. Water in fuel. I quickly learned to hate this, and to drain the fuel separator. I had a bad tank when I first bought the truck, and I had it all cleaned out (draining the separator multiple times), then we got another one when we were going to pick up the camper. Gah. Over a year later, I haven't had it happen again, so that's good.

2. Noisy. Newer ones are better about this, but I feel bad rolling through a campground breaking the silence.

3. Diesel fuel is more expensive now, and I'm not sure the improved mileage is enough to offset the additional expense.

4. Slow off the line - sometimes I feel like I should've requested power a few minutes ago. This is worse with the trailer obviously, but even when not towing, it can take a moment for the turbo to get its act together and get you rolling, instead of the instant reaction of a gas engine. Newer ones are better about this, too. I've also learned to feather the throttle a bit more to get that initial movement quicker.

5. Newer ones require Diesel Exhaust Fluid every so often. Not a huge deal, but it's yet another liquid to worry about under the hood, in addition to the coolant, oil, brake fluid, power steering fluid, and washer fluid.

6. Fewer gas stations carry diesel. This turned into an interesting situation during the recent blackout in our area - most of the stations that do carry diesel didn't have power (bad luck, really - but the point remains that there are fewer stations with diesel).

There are plenty of things I love about it, like when I was towing our trailer up the mountains on the turnpike in Pennsylvania and looked down and realized I was doing 70 mph - it just has a ton of power. Or when I can pull into a truck stop for fuel - it's so much easier to get in and out of them, and the credit card limits are much higher, so the pump doesn't switch off on me prematurely.

It'll be a tough decision when it comes time for us to replace our truck.
May ask what make and model you drive? I have a 2011 F-250 with 6.7 diesel and:

1- I have had no problems with water in fuel as I try to fill up at places that see a high volume of diesel traffic as the fuel will be fresher and lest time for it to collect accumulations of water and trash.

2- I've had peoe comment on multiple occasions that they didn't even know my truck was running and thought it was a gas as I accelerated away.

3- Can't argue the price but efficiency is debatable.

4- Mine is definitely not slow off the line. There is minimal turbo lag compared to my '06 6.0 liter.

5- DEF is only about 20-25 to fill up every oil change. I've put 33k miles on mine and never had to add DEF except at regular scheduled oil changes. And the technology allows for better MPG's as stated earlier.

6- Here in Oklahoma approx. 80% of stations have diesel fuel. There is a diesel fuel finder iPhone app that is handy.
__________________
colberjs is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-11-2012, 02:42 PM   #19
Rivet Master
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 811
Put me in the gas camp.
I have a 2000 diesel Excursion with 200k miles and don't plan on getting rid of it anytime soon.
When it is time, I will get a gasser.
Reasons:
1. Expense, new diesels are eye poppingly expensive. Many of the post 2005 used ones have well documented problems. You can get a nice new gasser truck for under 40k
2. Emission control systems on the new diesels are complex and extract a fuel consumption penalty. I travel in Mexico where ultra low sulphur fuel is not available. Put the wrong fuel in it and you are looking at expensive repair bill. As other posters have said, the emission technology is too new to see if long term reliability will be effected.
3. For towing 10k lbs and under, the Ford and Chevy 6 litre plus gas engines and multi speed transmissions are more than adequate.
4. Gas is cheaper. Diesels get better mpg, but it takes many many miles to recover the cost the diesel vehicle and more expensive fuel.
5. 15 mpg towing a 10,000 trailer? Give me a break. My Safari is 6300 gvw, I drive conservatively and get 11-12.5 towing and 18 solo with a pre-smogged 7.3. A new gasser might get 9-10.5 towing and 15-16 solo. Do the math, it will take many years and many miles to recover the cost of diesel.
__________________
handn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-11-2012, 03:03 PM   #20
Chief Chili Cook
 
newroswell's Avatar
 
2010 30' Flying Cloud
Bakersfield , California
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 738
Since we're actually talking about the Fords... I have a little experience with that. I actually drove 6.2L gas and the 6.7L diesel quiet a bit before buying the diesel.

On the noise level, the gasser actually has a nice growl to it. Only a little quieter at or near idle. I'm positive it's not quieter making power above 2,500 RPM's vs the diesel at 1,600 RPM's. It'll be very quiet cabin pulling those long steep grades.

On fuel stations, the few times I've been in a situation were there wasn't diesel, you wouldn't want to buy it in such a remote location if you can possibly avoid it anyway. A good example is Death Valley. Last time I was there, out of the two stations, only one had diesel, but at both places, fuel was at least 50% more than fuel in civilization 100 miles away (I've heard they both have diesel now, and gas and diesel is still 50% more). With the diesel you have the option of going with 50 or even 65 gallon tank. Pick a high volume, good price place that's easy to get in/out of to fill up. After the same thing happen in the Big Sur area, we bought the Titan Tank, which we had planned to do from the begging, not because we couldn't find diesel, but all fuel is crazy expensive in remote locations.

On DEF, as said above, it's really a non issue. It's everywhere. It's cheap. You can go thousands of miles on the 5 gallon tank. The DEF system has allowed the engineers to get the MPG's back up. The heads-up display alert will let you know when you have 2,500 miles to go, then pretty much every time you start up at 800, then it's into limp mode limiting you to 55. This is all mandated by law and applies to all brands including the big rigs...

On bad fuel, it can happen to gas also! The gas engines are not setup as well to deal with it. My brother-in-law got a slug of bad gas and limped home, with trailer, over 90 miles going 25MPH, in the middle of the night. I bought and carry under the seat the motorcraft (set) of filters in case just draining the separator won't get you going again (around $50 online). Both of these are ultra simple to drain and replace on the newer diesels (not just Fords).

All that being said, the diesel is a horrible investment for many people. I've joked before about buying a truck based on a spreadsheet, but if you don't clearly need the diesel, you really need to do some calculations to if it's worth it. The added power is a value item in the safety column (breaking away from a cluster of idiots in the mountains lowers the stress levels). Resell value is another. No Airstream needs a diesel truck, but sometimes the things you want to bring with it does.
__________________
The NSA -- The only part of the government that listens.
newroswell is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-11-2012, 03:10 PM   #21
Rivet Master
 
Skater's Avatar
 
1995 30' Excella
Bowie , Maryland
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 2,344
Quote:
Originally Posted by colberjs View Post
May ask what make and model you drive? I have a 2011 F-250 with 6.7 diesel and:
I have an '06 6.0.

Quote:
1- I have had no problems with water in fuel as I try to fill up at places that see a high volume of diesel traffic as the fuel will be fresher and lest time for it to collect accumulations of water and trash.
That's fine when you're in an area you're familiar with (I realized recently that the gas station where I get my diesel also supplies the local FedEx trucks....good sign!). But on the road that can be much harder. There was nothing outwardly wrong with the Exxon where I got my watery diesel the second time, and it was right along a major interstate, so you'd think they'd sell enough to prevent that issue.

As I said, though, it hasn't happened since despite several thousand miles of traveling. Of course most of those miles include getting fuel from truck stops or the trusted stations at home.

Quote:
2- I've had peoe comment on multiple occasions that they didn't even know my truck was running and thought it was a gas as I accelerated away.
Again, '06 6.0. I did acknowledge the newer ones are better.

Quote:
3- Can't argue the price but efficiency is debatable.
It's a question of what mileage I'd be getting with a gasser. I get about 11 mpg with the diesel (we travel over plenty of hills) while towing; if it were, say, 9 mpg, with gas, it's just a matter of running some numbers to figure out which is cheaper at given price points and given how many miles I tow.

Quote:
5- DEF is only about 20-25 to fill up every oil change. I've put 33k miles on mine and never had to add DEF except at regular scheduled oil changes. And the technology allows for better MPG's as stated earlier.
Yes, but it is something additional you have to worry about. As I said, not a huge deal, but one more expense and one more thing to check. We'd also need to factor the DEF cost into the efficiency calculations if we really want to answer the "which is cheaper to run" question.

Quote:
6- Here in Oklahoma approx. 80% of stations have diesel fuel. There is a diesel fuel finder iPhone app that is handy.
Here, at most 50% of the stations have diesel, I'd guess.
__________________
1995 Airstream Classic 30' Excella 1000
2014 Ram 2500 Crew Cab with Cummins 6.7L Diesel

Sold but not forgotten: 1991 Airstream B190
Sold: 2006 F-250 6.0L Powerstroke Supercab
Skater is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-11-2012, 03:18 PM   #22
4 Rivet Member
 
crisen's Avatar
 
2012 25' FB Eddie Bauer
Fairbanks , Alaska
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 268
Images: 5
Since the power to overcome aerodynamic drag goes up by the cube of the increase in velocity it would help in comparing mileage figures if folks could also post the speeds they tow at.
We just got back from a 13K trip with a SOB toyhauler, 9000lbs towing at 58-62 and averaged 11.2 for the trip with an '08 Dodge 3500 with the 6.7 Cummins. It has a DPF and no urea tank. It gets right about 19 at the same speeds by itself, has almost hit 20 a few times.

The Cummins needed about 30,000 miles on it for the mileage to peak out which from what i know is not unusual for them. Don't know about other brands.

I am hoping for at least a 2 mpg increase when we find our Airstream.

Rick
__________________
crisen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-11-2012, 05:43 PM   #23
4 Rivet Member
 
colberjs's Avatar
 
1964 30' Sovereign
Porum , Oklahoma
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 421
Quote:
Originally Posted by Skater View Post
It's a question of what mileage I'd be getting with a gasser. I get about 11 mpg with the diesel (we travel over plenty of hills) while towing; if it were, say, 9 mpg, with gas, it's just a matter of running some numbers to figure out which is cheaper at given price points and given how many miles I tow.



Yes, but it is something additional you have to worry about. As I said, not a huge deal, but one more expense and one more thing to check. We'd also need to factor the DEF cost into the efficiency calculations if we really want to answer the "which is cheaper to run" question.
No sure what the rice differences are where you are at but diesel here is about 3.50/gal and gas is around 3.20/gal. So......

Diesel @ 3.50/gal at 16 mpg (that would be a realistic mpg while towing) = 21.8 cents per mile

Gas @ 3.20/gal at 12 mpg (I'm basing that off of my past experience with gas motors and it may be generous) = 26.6 cents per mile

DEF at my Ford dealer runs 5.00/gal and my 5 gal tank will last 5k+ miles
DEF @ $5.00/ gal at 1000 mpg = 1/2 cent per mile

If the diesel engine is a $10,000 upgrade (not sure what the actual cost is) it would take 232,558 miles for fuel savings alone to offset the initial investment. If a person plans on keeping one that long then you could have the added power and fuel savings essentially for free.


Granted I am not taking into consideration other maintenance, insurance, and other costs of ownership. Diesel motors have a 100k mi factory warranty with the option to extend it to 200k. I'm not sure when gas warranty expires.
__________________
colberjs is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-12-2012, 06:40 AM   #24
Rivet Master
 
Skater's Avatar
 
1995 30' Excella
Bowie , Maryland
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 2,344
Quote:
Originally Posted by colberjs View Post
If the diesel engine is a $10,000 upgrade (not sure what the actual cost is) it would take 232,558 miles for fuel savings alone to offset the initial investment. If a person plans on keeping one that long then you could have the added power and fuel savings essentially for free.
That's a lot of miles, but definitely within the realm of possibility with today's engines, gas or diesel. It'd go down, I think, if we factored in non-towing miles as well (assuming the diesel is proportionally more efficient than gas, which it probably is).

Years ago, I was looking at a Mercedes Sprinter based Airstream - I was really just curious what they were like inside, and I knew I didn't have the money to buy one. The salesman was of course trying to get me to replace my B190 with it. His argument was that I'd save a bunch of money in fuel. I did the math, and I found I'd have to own it something like 200 years just to offset the cost of the new one, given my normal usage patterns.

Quote:
Granted I am not taking into consideration other maintenance, insurance, and other costs of ownership. Diesel motors have a 100k mi factory warranty with the option to extend it to 200k. I'm not sure when gas warranty expires.
Yeah, our last oil change was pretty expensive ($130?), compared to the $30 I used to spend on the B190's 460 to change it myself...with synthetic (the $130 was for dinosaur oil). I have to get a drain pan large enough to hold 15 quarts or whatever it is. But the labor wasn't that expensive - it was the sheer quantity of oil, of course. I haven't done a fuel or air filter yet.
__________________
1995 Airstream Classic 30' Excella 1000
2014 Ram 2500 Crew Cab with Cummins 6.7L Diesel

Sold but not forgotten: 1991 Airstream B190
Sold: 2006 F-250 6.0L Powerstroke Supercab
Skater is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-19-2012, 02:30 AM   #25
Rivet Master
 
JFScheck's Avatar
 
Vintage Kin Owner
Rockville , Maryland
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 1,474
Images: 33
Quote:
Originally Posted by colberjs View Post
May ask what make and model you drive? I have a 2011 F-250 with 6.7 diesel and:

1- I have had no problems with water in fuel as I try to fill up at places that see a high volume of diesel traffic as the fuel will be fresher and lest time for it to collect accumulations of water and trash.

2- I've had peoe comment on multiple occasions that they didn't even know my truck was running and thought it was a gas as I accelerated away.

3- Can't argue the price but efficiency is debatable.

4- Mine is definitely not slow off the line. There is minimal turbo lag compared to my '06 6.0 liter.

5- DEF is only about 20-25 to fill up every oil change. I've put 33k miles on mine and never had to add DEF except at regular scheduled oil changes. And the technology allows for better MPG's as stated earlier.

6- Here in Oklahoma approx. 80% of stations have diesel fuel. There is a diesel fuel finder iPhone app that is handy.
Ditto, my F-350 2011 is GREAT, I too live in Maryland near DC and NO troubles finding diesel locally.....
__________________
John "JFScheck" Scheck
2015 Roadtrek CS Adventurous XL
2015 Mercedes Sprinter 3500 XL Chassis with Mercedes BlueTec V6 Diesel
**I Love U.S.A.**
JFScheck is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-22-2012, 12:32 PM   #26
Rivet Master
 
mefly2's Avatar
 
2015 25' FB Eddie Bauer
Western , ** Big Sky Country ** Montana
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 2,283
Quote:
Originally Posted by 65CV View Post
Diesel rocks.

...expect 30% better mileage, on average, based on the amount of energy present in each gallon of fuel.
I wish !
Paper Number Theory vs Actual Field reality ... the newer diesel engines are hamstrung by environmental considerations.

But ... you gotta love the torque. Where my F150 gas was struggling / hunting for the right gear on mountain passes, the Ram diesel rarely even downshifts. Trailer behind ??? Where ? You wouldn't even notice.
__________________
mefly2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-22-2012, 12:45 PM   #27
Rivet Master
 
mefly2's Avatar
 
2015 25' FB Eddie Bauer
Western , ** Big Sky Country ** Montana
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 2,283
Quote:
Originally Posted by newroswell View Post
On DEF,... This is all mandated by law and applies to all brands including the big rigs...

... The added power is a value item in the safety column (breaking away from a cluster of idiots in the mountains lowers the stress levels). Resell value is another. No Airstream needs a diesel truck, but sometimes the things you want to bring with it does.
Agreed ... except that the Ram does not require the use DEF fluid ... but there is the filter that periodically uses extra fuel to burn it "clean".
__________________
mefly2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-28-2012, 10:34 AM   #28
Chief Chili Cook
 
newroswell's Avatar
 
2010 30' Flying Cloud
Bakersfield , California
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 738
Quote:
Originally Posted by mefly2 View Post
Agreed ... except that the Ram does not require the use DEF fluid ... but there is the filter that periodically uses extra fuel to burn it "clean".
The 2013 models use a DEF system.
__________________

__________________
The NSA -- The only part of the government that listens.
newroswell is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Ford 250 Gas Tow Vehicle ZoominC6 Tow Vehicles 24 12-30-2012 09:55 AM
Dodge 250 Diesel and soot inside the cabin vegangirl57 Tow Vehicles 12 10-10-2011 03:55 PM
250 MH :: 1990 Airstream 250 barend Airstream Registry Discussions 0 08-19-2011 09:32 AM
Ford 250 4x4 diesel westernviews Tow Vehicles 43 04-07-2007 07:10 AM


Virginia Campgrounds

Reviews provided by




Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 11:22 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.

Airstream is a registered trademark of Airstream Inc. All rights reserved. Airstream trademark used under license to Social Knowledge LLC.