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06-25-2019, 09:30 AM
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#1
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Rivet Master
2019 28' Flying Cloud
2014 22' FB Sport
Davie
, FL
Join Date: Feb 2019
Posts: 904
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ESC (Electronic Stability Control)
It has come to my attention that certain trailer hitches are incompatible with ESC and that their manufacturers tell you to turn the ESC off. Following is a statement concerning the effectiveness of ESC for enhancing road safety:
Numerous studies around the world have confirmed that ESC is highly effective in helping the driver maintain control of the car, thereby saving lives and reducing the probability of occurrence and severity of crashes.[33] In the fall of 2004, the American National Highway and Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA) confirmed international studies, releasing results of a field study of ESC effectiveness in the USA. The NHTSA concluded that ESC reduces crashes by 35%. Additionally, SUVs with stability control are involved in 67% fewer accidents than SUVs without the system. The United States Insurance Institute for Highway Safety (IIHS) issued its own study in June 2006 showing that up to 10,000 fatal US crashes could be avoided annually if all vehicles were equipped with ESC.[34] The IIHS study concluded that ESC reduces the likelihood of all fatal crashes by 43%, fatal single-vehicle crashes by 56%, and fatal single-vehicle rollovers by 77–80%.
ESC is described as the most important advance in auto safety by many experts,[35] including Nicole Nason, administrator of the NHTSA,[36][37] Jim Guest and David Champion of Consumers Union of the Fédération Internationale de l'Automobile (FIA),[38][39] E-Safety Aware,[40] Csaba Csere, former editor of Car and Driver,[41] and Jim Gill, long time ESC proponent of Continental Automotive Systems.[37]
The European New Car Assessment Program (EuroNCAP) "strongly recommends" that people buy cars fitted with stability control. The IIHS requires that a vehicle must have ESC as an available option in order for it to qualify for their Top Safety Pick award for occupant protection and accident avoidance.[42][43]
Before you buy a hitch make sure that it works with ESC.
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06-25-2019, 05:50 PM
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#2
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4 Rivet Member
Currently Looking...
Baltimore
, Maryland
Join Date: Nov 2017
Posts: 377
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Yep some hitches will create the very forces that the ESC wants to correct. This is the reason I will never use the Blue OX WDH.
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06-25-2019, 05:55 PM
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#3
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Rivet Master
2022 25' Flying Cloud
NCR
, Ontario
Join Date: Feb 2017
Posts: 3,085
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pls supply a link to site that show/reviews hitch vs ECS
i want to see concrete facts and but just speculation
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06-25-2019, 05:56 PM
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#4
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Rivet Master
2014 20' Flying Cloud
Sag Harbor
, New York
Join Date: Jun 2015
Posts: 17,523
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Could you please provide a link for that info?
FEI - Recent posts in this thread touch on this issue:
http://www.airforums.com/forums/f464...es-196502.html
Peter
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06-26-2019, 08:16 AM
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#5
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Rivet Master
2019 28' Flying Cloud
2014 22' FB Sport
Davie
, FL
Join Date: Feb 2019
Posts: 904
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The Anderson and Blue Ox installation manuals tell you to turn off the ESC. There may be others.
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06-26-2019, 12:11 PM
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#6
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3 Rivet Member
2016 26' Flying Cloud
2016 20' Flying Cloud
St Petersburg
, Florida
Join Date: Oct 2016
Posts: 174
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Quote:
Originally Posted by out of sight
The Anderson and Blue Ox installation manuals tell you to turn off the ESC. There may be others.
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I have both the 2016 & 2018 editions of the Blue Ox installation manual. Neither manual mentions ESC or electronic anything. Can you please provide a link to the manual you used? If there are written instructions from Blue Ox, I want to add them to my manual. Thanks.
I've attached the 2018 edition.
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06-26-2019, 12:40 PM
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#7
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Rivet Master
2017 30' Classic
Anna Maria
, Florida
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 1,642
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Profxd
Yep some hitches will create the very forces that the ESC wants to correct. This is the reason I will never use the Blue OX WDH.
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That is a blatant mis information.
I have a 2017 F250 pulling a 2017 30' Classic. Never have disengaged the ESC using a Blue Ox hitch. The combination has been tested under fire during a crash avoidance at 70 mph lane change. The set up performed perfectly.
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06-26-2019, 12:41 PM
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#8
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Rivet Master
2019 28' Flying Cloud
2014 22' FB Sport
Davie
, FL
Join Date: Feb 2019
Posts: 904
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RJJ
I have both the 2016 & 2018 editions of the Blue Ox installation manual. Neither manual mentions ESC or electronic anything. Can you please provide a link to the manual you used? If there are written instructions from Blue Ox, I want to add them to my manual. Thanks.
I've attached the 2018 edition.
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https://www.blueox.com/wp-content/up...0015002000.pdf
See page 7. It mentions only Ford or Chevy owners.
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06-26-2019, 12:51 PM
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#9
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Rivet Master
2014 20' Flying Cloud
Sag Harbor
, New York
Join Date: Jun 2015
Posts: 17,523
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RJJ
I have both the 2016 & 2018 editions of the Blue Ox installation manual. Neither manual mentions ESC or electronic anything. Can you please provide a link to the manual you used? If there are written instructions from Blue Ox, I want to add them to my manual. Thanks.
I've attached the 2018 edition.
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Your manual does say something similar to what out of sight just posted. [p. 7 of 10 in your original’s pagination] “ . . . Ford or Chevy . . . may need to turn off . . . “
Do you see this?
Thanks,
Peter
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06-26-2019, 01:13 PM
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#10
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Rivet Master
2019 28' Flying Cloud
2014 22' FB Sport
Davie
, FL
Join Date: Feb 2019
Posts: 904
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The Anderson manual is more thorough in its explanation of why they tell you to turn off your ESC. See page 2.
https://static1.squarespace.com/stat...18+low+res.pdf
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06-26-2019, 01:13 PM
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#11
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Rivet Master
2016 27' International
Sherwood Park
, Alberta
Join Date: Jul 2017
Posts: 1,029
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So what does the Sway Pro do that other WD hitches do not, which requires Ford or Chevy owners to turn off the factory sway control system while using the Blue Ox Sway Pro? Not that I am a fan or user of Sway Pro, just curious. I use the Reese Strait Line and have not seen this type of instruction.
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06-26-2019, 01:42 PM
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#12
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Rivet Master
2010 25' FB Flying Cloud
Davenport
, Iowa
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 2,146
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Does the turning off of the ESP also apply to Propride and Hensley ?
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06-26-2019, 02:04 PM
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#13
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Site Team
2017 30' International
Broomfield
, Colorado
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 3,555
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OTRA15
Your manual does say something similar to what out of sight just posted. [p. 7 of 10 in your original’s pagination] “ . . . Ford or Chevy . . . may need to turn off . . . “
Do you see this?
Thanks,
Peter
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"Issue: The ride is excessively rough.
Resolution: If you are a Ford or Chevy owner you may need to turn off the factory sway control system while using the Blue Ox® SwayProTM."
This potential resolution for excessively firm ride relates to SUV owners who have electronically controlled variable rate dampers (shocks) equipped that can automatically increase (or decrease) the firmness of the ride (for ride comfort and improved control) as dictated but the vehicle dynamics computer.
Electronically controlled dampers can firm up the ride automatically if the computer senses too much wheel travel or body motion under certain circumstances, which can include rolling down the road in a straight line with no sway whatsoever. For instance I can see why a vehicle setup with this system may automatically provide a rougher (stiffer) ride if any improper hitch setup causes the rear end to bounce up / down (porpoise) the road based on improper calibration (not enough WD for example). This is an edge case only for certain vehicles only with these dampers installed and these dynamics are not isolated to using any specific hitch. I had a Range Rover once that did this (locked out the electronically controlled dampers) based on a different issue and the ride was so firm I thought I was in Porsche GT3.
The side effect of turning off variable rate damping by disabling dynamic stability control is that you unfortunately lose other important features of stability control aimed at Yaw control, body roll control, etc.. not a good idea to disable with or without a trailer attached. Just calibrate your hitch correctly and no problems. Again, this is an edge case any why it is listed in their manual as a potential resolution to excessively rough ride. Has nothing to do with other elements of vehicle dynamics control related to sway.
My GMC actually has sway dynamics prevention activated in the DSC system when connected to a trailer - which is a good thing, I would never run without it activated. I have Stone age regular dampeners on my GMC so they are not variable rate.
anyhoo... back to work
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06-26-2019, 05:22 PM
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#14
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3 Rivet Member
2016 26' Flying Cloud
2016 20' Flying Cloud
St Petersburg
, Florida
Join Date: Oct 2016
Posts: 174
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Quote:
Originally Posted by out of sight
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Thank you. I received the April 2019 updated manual from Blue Ox earlier today. Fortunately, it does not apply to my tow vehicle. 👍🏼 😏
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06-26-2019, 05:27 PM
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#15
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3 Rivet Member
2016 26' Flying Cloud
2016 20' Flying Cloud
St Petersburg
, Florida
Join Date: Oct 2016
Posts: 174
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OTRA15
Your manual does say something similar to what out of sight just posted. [p. 7 of 10 in your original’s pagination] “ . . . Ford or Chevy . . . may need to turn off . . . “
Do you see this?
Thanks,
Peter
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Yes, Peter, I see it now. I was looking for the specific term. Either way, it does not apply to my tow vehicle. 🙏🏼 😏
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06-26-2019, 05:49 PM
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#16
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4 Rivet Member
Currently Looking...
Baltimore
, Maryland
Join Date: Nov 2017
Posts: 377
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Quote:
Originally Posted by franklyfrank
That is a blatant mis information.
I have a 2017 F250 pulling a 2017 30' Classic. Never have disengaged the ESC using a Blue Ox hitch. The combination has been tested under fire during a crash avoidance at 70 mph lane change. The set up performed perfectly.
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Even though you haven’t there are many that have had issues and most are lighter vehicles that are using high tension on the bars.
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06-27-2019, 05:25 AM
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#17
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"Cloudsplitter"
2003 25' Classic
Houstatlantavegas
, Malebolgia
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 20,000
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Might it be better to set up a rig so it doesn't 'sway'?
When does ESC take charge...after the event starts?
How does it know when you are towing?
Is it really designed to 'control' both the TV & trailer?
It seems to me that if it's dumb about the trailer it may very well do something that won't help the situation.🤔
Those doubts are enough to persuade me to turn it off until definitive proof can be gained, if we had it, we don't nor do we sway.😂
Bob
🇺🇸
__________________
I’m done with ‘adulting’…Let’s go find Bigfoot.
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06-27-2019, 06:55 AM
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#18
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Rivet Master
2007 30' Classic
Oswego
, Illinois
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 13,656
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ROBERT CROSS
Might it be better to set up a rig so it doesn't 'sway'?
When does ESC take charge...after the event starts?
How does it know when you are towing?
Is it really designed to 'control' both the TV & trailer?
It seems to me that if it's dumb about the trailer it may very well do something that won't help the situation.[emoji848]
Those doubts are enough to persuade me to turn it off until definitive proof can be gained, if we had it, we don't nor do we sway.[emoji23]
Bob
[emoji631]
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It's not that dumb. The modules all talk to one another. Truck knows trailer is present by the itbc connection. (For GM) As such, it then knows if the yaw sensors detect TV lateral movement (sway has started). Then it will intervene by applying brakes on appropriate corners, as well on some models, the trailer brakes.
I can see how wd could affect the auto rear suspension dampening, in those high end vehicles equipped with it. I dont see how it makes anything dangerous, but max firm ride, yes. That system needs a reprogram to detect itbc connection and set a fixed "trailer mode" suspension setting, imo.
__________________
-Rich-
"If the women don't find you handsome, they should at least find you handy." - Red Green
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06-27-2019, 07:32 AM
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#19
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Moderator
2017 26' Flying Cloud
Alamo Heights
, Texas
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 8,500
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Sway control and stability control are NOT THE SAME THING. When I toggle the sway control on trailer settings in my Ford, I am NOT turning off the AdvanceTrac stability control.
Before you pontificate on technical matters, make sure you understand what you're saying.
__________________
— David
Zero Gravitas — 2017 Flying Cloud 26U | WBCCI# 15566
He has all of the virtues I dislike and none of the vices I admire. — Sir Winston Churchill
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06-27-2019, 07:37 AM
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#20
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Rivet Master
2007 30' Classic
Oswego
, Illinois
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 13,656
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DKB_SATX
Sway control and stability control are NOT THE SAME THING. When I toggle the sway control on trailer settings in my Ford, I am NOT turning off the AdvanceTrac stability control.
Before you pontificate on technical matters, make sure you understand what you're saying.
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To whom are you referring? I was talking about the shock absorbers dampening control. Not stability control, although they do interact, but seem to leave itbc trailer info out of the program. I cannot comment on any brand other than GM.
__________________
-Rich-
"If the women don't find you handsome, they should at least find you handy." - Red Green
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