Journey with Confidence RV GPS App RV Trip Planner RV LIFE Campground Reviews RV Maintenance Take a Speed Test Free 7 Day Trial ×
 


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 06-25-2019, 09:30 AM   #1
Rivet Master
 
2019 28' Flying Cloud
2014 22' FB Sport
Davie , FL
Join Date: Feb 2019
Posts: 904
ESC (Electronic Stability Control)

It has come to my attention that certain trailer hitches are incompatible with ESC and that their manufacturers tell you to turn the ESC off. Following is a statement concerning the effectiveness of ESC for enhancing road safety:

Numerous studies around the world have confirmed that ESC is highly effective in helping the driver maintain control of the car, thereby saving lives and reducing the probability of occurrence and severity of crashes.[33] In the fall of 2004, the American National Highway and Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA) confirmed international studies, releasing results of a field study of ESC effectiveness in the USA. The NHTSA concluded that ESC reduces crashes by 35%. Additionally, SUVs with stability control are involved in 67% fewer accidents than SUVs without the system. The United States Insurance Institute for Highway Safety (IIHS) issued its own study in June 2006 showing that up to 10,000 fatal US crashes could be avoided annually if all vehicles were equipped with ESC.[34] The IIHS study concluded that ESC reduces the likelihood of all fatal crashes by 43%, fatal single-vehicle crashes by 56%, and fatal single-vehicle rollovers by 77–80%.

ESC is described as the most important advance in auto safety by many experts,[35] including Nicole Nason, administrator of the NHTSA,[36][37] Jim Guest and David Champion of Consumers Union of the Fédération Internationale de l'Automobile (FIA),[38][39] E-Safety Aware,[40] Csaba Csere, former editor of Car and Driver,[41] and Jim Gill, long time ESC proponent of Continental Automotive Systems.[37]

The European New Car Assessment Program (EuroNCAP) "strongly recommends" that people buy cars fitted with stability control. The IIHS requires that a vehicle must have ESC as an available option in order for it to qualify for their Top Safety Pick award for occupant protection and accident avoidance.[42][43]

Before you buy a hitch make sure that it works with ESC.
out of sight is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-25-2019, 05:50 PM   #2
4 Rivet Member
 
Currently Looking...
Baltimore , Maryland
Join Date: Nov 2017
Posts: 377
Yep some hitches will create the very forces that the ESC wants to correct. This is the reason I will never use the Blue OX WDH.
Profxd is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 06-25-2019, 05:55 PM   #3
Rivet Master
 
waninae39's Avatar
 
2022 25' Flying Cloud
NCR , Ontario
Join Date: Feb 2017
Posts: 3,085
pls supply a link to site that show/reviews hitch vs ECS
i want to see concrete facts and but just speculation
waninae39 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-25-2019, 05:56 PM   #4
Rivet Master
 
2014 20' Flying Cloud
Sag Harbor , New York
Join Date: Jun 2015
Posts: 17,523
Could you please provide a link for that info?

FEI - Recent posts in this thread touch on this issue:

http://www.airforums.com/forums/f464...es-196502.html

Peter
OTRA15 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-26-2019, 08:16 AM   #5
Rivet Master
 
2019 28' Flying Cloud
2014 22' FB Sport
Davie , FL
Join Date: Feb 2019
Posts: 904
The Anderson and Blue Ox installation manuals tell you to turn off the ESC. There may be others.
out of sight is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-26-2019, 12:11 PM   #6
RJJ
3 Rivet Member
 
RJJ's Avatar
 
2016 26' Flying Cloud
2016 20' Flying Cloud
St Petersburg , Florida
Join Date: Oct 2016
Posts: 174
Quote:
Originally Posted by out of sight View Post
The Anderson and Blue Ox installation manuals tell you to turn off the ESC. There may be others.
I have both the 2016 & 2018 editions of the Blue Ox installation manual. Neither manual mentions ESC or electronic anything. Can you please provide a link to the manual you used? If there are written instructions from Blue Ox, I want to add them to my manual. Thanks.

I've attached the 2018 edition.
Attached Files
File Type: pdf BXW035005500750100015002000.pdf (669.2 KB, 23 views)
RJJ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-26-2019, 12:40 PM   #7
Rivet Master
 
2017 30' Classic
Anna Maria , Florida
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 1,642
Quote:
Originally Posted by Profxd View Post
Yep some hitches will create the very forces that the ESC wants to correct. This is the reason I will never use the Blue OX WDH.
That is a blatant mis information.
I have a 2017 F250 pulling a 2017 30' Classic. Never have disengaged the ESC using a Blue Ox hitch. The combination has been tested under fire during a crash avoidance at 70 mph lane change. The set up performed perfectly.
franklyfrank is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-26-2019, 12:41 PM   #8
Rivet Master
 
2019 28' Flying Cloud
2014 22' FB Sport
Davie , FL
Join Date: Feb 2019
Posts: 904
Quote:
Originally Posted by RJJ View Post
I have both the 2016 & 2018 editions of the Blue Ox installation manual. Neither manual mentions ESC or electronic anything. Can you please provide a link to the manual you used? If there are written instructions from Blue Ox, I want to add them to my manual. Thanks.

I've attached the 2018 edition.
https://www.blueox.com/wp-content/up...0015002000.pdf

See page 7. It mentions only Ford or Chevy owners.
out of sight is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-26-2019, 12:51 PM   #9
Rivet Master
 
2014 20' Flying Cloud
Sag Harbor , New York
Join Date: Jun 2015
Posts: 17,523
Quote:
Originally Posted by RJJ View Post
I have both the 2016 & 2018 editions of the Blue Ox installation manual. Neither manual mentions ESC or electronic anything. Can you please provide a link to the manual you used? If there are written instructions from Blue Ox, I want to add them to my manual. Thanks.

I've attached the 2018 edition.
Your manual does say something similar to what out of sight just posted. [p. 7 of 10 in your original’s pagination] “ . . . Ford or Chevy . . . may need to turn off . . . “

Do you see this?

Thanks,

Peter
OTRA15 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-26-2019, 01:13 PM   #10
Rivet Master
 
2019 28' Flying Cloud
2014 22' FB Sport
Davie , FL
Join Date: Feb 2019
Posts: 904
The Anderson manual is more thorough in its explanation of why they tell you to turn off your ESC. See page 2.

https://static1.squarespace.com/stat...18+low+res.pdf
out of sight is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-26-2019, 01:13 PM   #11
Rivet Master
 
thewarden's Avatar
 
2016 27' International
Sherwood Park , Alberta
Join Date: Jul 2017
Posts: 1,029
So what does the Sway Pro do that other WD hitches do not, which requires Ford or Chevy owners to turn off the factory sway control system while using the Blue Ox Sway Pro? Not that I am a fan or user of Sway Pro, just curious. I use the Reese Strait Line and have not seen this type of instruction.
thewarden is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-26-2019, 01:42 PM   #12
Rivet Master
 
2010 25' FB Flying Cloud
Davenport , Iowa
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 2,146
Blog Entries: 1
Does the turning off of the ESP also apply to Propride and Hensley ?
Airtandem is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-26-2019, 02:04 PM   #13
Site Team
 
wulfraat's Avatar

 
2017 30' International
Broomfield , Colorado
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 3,555
Images: 1
Quote:
Originally Posted by OTRA15 View Post
Your manual does say something similar to what out of sight just posted. [p. 7 of 10 in your original’s pagination] “ . . . Ford or Chevy . . . may need to turn off . . . “

Do you see this?

Thanks,

Peter
"Issue: The ride is excessively rough.

Resolution: If you are a Ford or Chevy owner you may need to turn off the factory sway control system while using the Blue Ox® SwayProTM."

This potential resolution for excessively firm ride relates to SUV owners who have electronically controlled variable rate dampers (shocks) equipped that can automatically increase (or decrease) the firmness of the ride (for ride comfort and improved control) as dictated but the vehicle dynamics computer.

Electronically controlled dampers can firm up the ride automatically if the computer senses too much wheel travel or body motion under certain circumstances, which can include rolling down the road in a straight line with no sway whatsoever. For instance I can see why a vehicle setup with this system may automatically provide a rougher (stiffer) ride if any improper hitch setup causes the rear end to bounce up / down (porpoise) the road based on improper calibration (not enough WD for example). This is an edge case only for certain vehicles only with these dampers installed and these dynamics are not isolated to using any specific hitch. I had a Range Rover once that did this (locked out the electronically controlled dampers) based on a different issue and the ride was so firm I thought I was in Porsche GT3.

The side effect of turning off variable rate damping by disabling dynamic stability control is that you unfortunately lose other important features of stability control aimed at Yaw control, body roll control, etc.. not a good idea to disable with or without a trailer attached. Just calibrate your hitch correctly and no problems. Again, this is an edge case any why it is listed in their manual as a potential resolution to excessively rough ride. Has nothing to do with other elements of vehicle dynamics control related to sway.

My GMC actually has sway dynamics prevention activated in the DSC system when connected to a trailer - which is a good thing, I would never run without it activated. I have Stone age regular dampeners on my GMC so they are not variable rate.

anyhoo... back to work
wulfraat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-26-2019, 05:22 PM   #14
RJJ
3 Rivet Member
 
RJJ's Avatar
 
2016 26' Flying Cloud
2016 20' Flying Cloud
St Petersburg , Florida
Join Date: Oct 2016
Posts: 174
Quote:
Originally Posted by out of sight View Post
https://www.blueox.com/wp-content/up...0015002000.pdf

See page 7. It mentions only Ford or Chevy owners.
Thank you. I received the April 2019 updated manual from Blue Ox earlier today. Fortunately, it does not apply to my tow vehicle. 👍🏼 😏
Attached Files
File Type: pdf BXW0350-S thru BXW1500-S.pdf (1.79 MB, 30 views)
RJJ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-26-2019, 05:27 PM   #15
RJJ
3 Rivet Member
 
RJJ's Avatar
 
2016 26' Flying Cloud
2016 20' Flying Cloud
St Petersburg , Florida
Join Date: Oct 2016
Posts: 174
Quote:
Originally Posted by OTRA15 View Post
Your manual does say something similar to what out of sight just posted. [p. 7 of 10 in your original’s pagination] “ . . . Ford or Chevy . . . may need to turn off . . . “

Do you see this?

Thanks,

Peter
Yes, Peter, I see it now. I was looking for the specific term. Either way, it does not apply to my tow vehicle. 🙏🏼 😏
RJJ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-26-2019, 05:49 PM   #16
4 Rivet Member
 
Currently Looking...
Baltimore , Maryland
Join Date: Nov 2017
Posts: 377
Quote:
Originally Posted by franklyfrank View Post
That is a blatant mis information.
I have a 2017 F250 pulling a 2017 30' Classic. Never have disengaged the ESC using a Blue Ox hitch. The combination has been tested under fire during a crash avoidance at 70 mph lane change. The set up performed perfectly.
Even though you haven’t there are many that have had issues and most are lighter vehicles that are using high tension on the bars.
Profxd is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 06-27-2019, 05:25 AM   #17
"Cloudsplitter"

 
2003 25' Classic
Houstatlantavegas , Malebolgia
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 20,000
Images: 1
Might it be better to set up a rig so it doesn't 'sway'?

When does ESC take charge...after the event starts?
How does it know when you are towing?
Is it really designed to 'control' both the TV & trailer?
It seems to me that if it's dumb about the trailer it may very well do something that won't help the situation.🤔

Those doubts are enough to persuade me to turn it off until definitive proof can be gained, if we had it, we don't nor do we sway.😂

Bob
🇺🇸
__________________
I’m done with ‘adulting’…Let’s go find Bigfoot.
ROBERT CROSS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-27-2019, 06:55 AM   #18
Rivet Master
 
dznf0g's Avatar
 
2007 30' Classic
Oswego , Illinois
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 13,656
Images: 5
Quote:
Originally Posted by ROBERT CROSS View Post
Might it be better to set up a rig so it doesn't 'sway'?

When does ESC take charge...after the event starts?
How does it know when you are towing?
Is it really designed to 'control' both the TV & trailer?
It seems to me that if it's dumb about the trailer it may very well do something that won't help the situation.[emoji848]

Those doubts are enough to persuade me to turn it off until definitive proof can be gained, if we had it, we don't nor do we sway.[emoji23]

Bob
[emoji631]
It's not that dumb. The modules all talk to one another. Truck knows trailer is present by the itbc connection. (For GM) As such, it then knows if the yaw sensors detect TV lateral movement (sway has started). Then it will intervene by applying brakes on appropriate corners, as well on some models, the trailer brakes.
I can see how wd could affect the auto rear suspension dampening, in those high end vehicles equipped with it. I dont see how it makes anything dangerous, but max firm ride, yes. That system needs a reprogram to detect itbc connection and set a fixed "trailer mode" suspension setting, imo.
__________________
-Rich-

"If the women don't find you handsome, they should at least find you handy." - Red Green
dznf0g is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-27-2019, 07:32 AM   #19
Moderator
 
DKB_SATX's Avatar

 
2017 26' Flying Cloud
Alamo Heights , Texas
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 8,500
Images: 1
Blog Entries: 7
Sway control and stability control are NOT THE SAME THING. When I toggle the sway control on trailer settings in my Ford, I am NOT turning off the AdvanceTrac stability control.

Before you pontificate on technical matters, make sure you understand what you're saying.
__________________
— David

Zero Gravitas — 2017 Flying Cloud 26U | WBCCI# 15566

He has all of the virtues I dislike and none of the vices I admire. — Sir Winston Churchill
DKB_SATX is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-27-2019, 07:37 AM   #20
Rivet Master
 
dznf0g's Avatar
 
2007 30' Classic
Oswego , Illinois
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 13,656
Images: 5
Quote:
Originally Posted by DKB_SATX View Post
Sway control and stability control are NOT THE SAME THING. When I toggle the sway control on trailer settings in my Ford, I am NOT turning off the AdvanceTrac stability control.

Before you pontificate on technical matters, make sure you understand what you're saying.
To whom are you referring? I was talking about the shock absorbers dampening control. Not stability control, although they do interact, but seem to leave itbc trailer info out of the program. I cannot comment on any brand other than GM.
__________________
-Rich-

"If the women don't find you handsome, they should at least find you handy." - Red Green
dznf0g is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Vehicles with electronic trailer sway control pandjg Tow Vehicles 6 11-27-2014 08:17 AM
Turn off electronic sway control with Propride? Wanna EB Hitches, Couplers & Balls 7 01-06-2014 10:31 AM
New 454engine, Edelbrock EFI, 4l80E w/electronic control COUCH2TH Mechanics Corner - Engines, Transmission & More... 4 09-25-2011 09:33 PM
Electronic brake control David Blaska Brakes & Brake Controllers 4 02-08-2010 12:25 PM
Electronic Stability Control important for safety rating Road Ruler Tow Vehicles 8 11-15-2007 12:17 PM


Featured Campgrounds

Reviews provided by

Disclaimer:

This website is not affiliated with or endorsed by the Airstream, Inc. or any of its affiliates. Airstream is a registered trademark of Airstream Inc. All rights reserved. Airstream trademark used under license to Social Knowledge LLC.



All times are GMT -6. The time now is 11:36 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.