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Old 07-30-2015, 09:53 PM   #15
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I have two other comments on the good posts from above.
cold weather - your 5-7 mile trips in the winter will be a pain with the diesel unless it is plugged in or kept under cover. It will take forever to thaw the windshield and put some heat into the cab. I used to have VW jetta that would take forever to thaw out in the winter. I have remedied this with a garage for my truck.
The gas trucks have a gear ratio of 3:73 and 4:10 but the diesel only get the 3:42 in the 2500 and single wheel 3500.
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Old 07-30-2015, 10:14 PM   #16
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Torque turns your wheels, not horsepower. So of that's why the CTD feels more powerful. It is more powerful. And if you do the math for for drivetrain loss at 15% and then altitude the CTD is still way ahead of the 6.4L.

Torque starts the wheels turning. HP determines how fast they keep turning, especially on a grade. The diesel may feel more powerful because it doesn't need to shift as often. It may also maintain power better at altitude due to the forced induction. But it isn't more powerful, other things being equal. We measure that characteristic with HP, not torque. And the manufacturers conveniently publish those figures.
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Old 07-30-2015, 10:42 PM   #17
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Does my intended usage warrant going with diesel?

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Originally Posted by jcl View Post
Torque starts the wheels turning. HP determines how fast they keep turning, especially on a grade. The diesel may feel more powerful because it doesn't need to shift as often. It may also maintain power better at altitude due to the forced induction. But it isn't more powerful, other things being equal. We measure that characteristic with HP, not torque. And the manufacturers conveniently publish those figures.

Lol,where did you come up with this?Without torque you could have 1000hp and the vehicle can't pull itself much less a trailer.

As for short trip driving modern diesels are as good as gas vehicles actually better as the fuel they burn is a lubricant and gas is a solvent.Cold dry starts wear gasoline engines more quickly for that reason and Diesel engines last longer..
Diesels are also cheaper to drive for short terms also.If you buy all the right popular options in a good color and take care of it.Resale is high as used ones are in demand as some people won't even look at a new one (Even though they could almost buy a new one for close to the same money).Used truck departments rely on this.
It's funny to read the answers in this post from the majority of people who obviously have never owned a newer diesel TV.But that is what makes this forum entertaining.

Oh by the way I have yet to plug in my engine block heater on my 2012 or my 2015 with low temps of -15 degrees.My defroster works fine.my maintainence is cheap.And my truck pulls like a freight train in the mountains.And is quiet as a gas cruising down the road.You will love it as do the others that own them.


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Old 07-30-2015, 10:57 PM   #18
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Thanks for chiming in man. Was hoping you would. What is it specifically about newer diesels that makes them more accommodating to stop and go, shorter trips, sort of driving? Thanks for any additional insights.

Dan
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Old 07-30-2015, 11:22 PM   #19
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Does my intended usage warrant going with diesel?

As I explained its the diesel fuel lubricating properties.The biggest wear item for any engine is the initial startup.It takes time for oil to circulate and with gasoline engine the cylinders are dry vs prelubed with diesel fuel.Starting and shutting off in a short distance has little effect.That is the reason Diesel engines traditionally last much longer.Fuel is lubrication and not a solvent like gasoline.

I am not a dyed in the wool diesel guy but for pulling larger Airstreams
there is no equal and I have driven them all.

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Old 07-30-2015, 11:47 PM   #20
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Does my intended usage warrant going with diesel?

Torque and HP are inextricably linked to one another, they will always be the same at 5252 RPM.

One can NOT have 1000 HP and little to no torque, however, one CAN have 1000 pounds of torque and only a fraction of a horsepower.

All one needs is a long wrench.

Torque = twisting force
HP = torque @ velocity

Torque is a component of HP.
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Old 07-31-2015, 12:01 AM   #21
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Does my intended usage warrant going with diesel?

I mean really, how much time do most of us spend climbing steep inclines at highway speed while pulling our Airstreams?

My little 5.3 L Chevy will pull every grade between Little Rock AR and Tucson AZ at 70 mph. (+)

Now I will say that on hwy 77 between Tucson and Globe there is a long stretch of 8% grade that I pull at 35 or 40, in the worst part, but I can live with that.

8% is not going to happen that often for me. As it is, I pass all kinds of big trucks on the grades so I am cool, for certain not the slowest thing on the road.
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Old 07-31-2015, 12:01 AM   #22
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Originally Posted by Danattherock View Post
Thanks for chiming in man. Was hoping you would. What is it specifically about newer diesels that makes them more accommodating to stop and go, shorter trips, sort of driving? Thanks for any additional insights.

Dan
I am a Cummins guy and have perpetually researched them in the various Cummins forums since about 2002, and have owned one for going on 12 years. And since the release of the 6.4 Hemi, I think I've read just about everything there is on it, and have chatted with many folks who own the 6.4.

But to answer the question, with the DEF trucks, they are also using less EGR than on the 2010-2012 trucks which is infamous for choking these engines. In these model years, long haul trucks did much better than their daily driver counterparts. Short trips and daily driving haven't proved problematic in the 2013+ trucks.

I think the Hemi is a great option for a lot of people and their towing situations, and myself, I am on the fence between the two engines should I have to replace my current truck. I would love to get the Hemi as it's a much easier truck to own, but I'm terrified of the buyer's remorse that hits as you're screaming up the side of a mountain at 5k RPMs.

I will also add that if you go with the 6.4 Hemi, get the 4.10 gears. But for mountain use, I think you'll be much better served by the diesel.
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Old 07-31-2015, 12:03 AM   #23
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Lol,where did you come up with this?Without torque you could have 1000hp and the vehicle can't pull itself much less a trailer.
High school. Almost 50 years ago. In the interim, there was a career in the diesel engine business, and developing fuel systems for highway trucks. And driving commercial trucks, for a while.

With low torque and 1000 hp you would have relatively high rpm. You would need to invent some device, like a multi ratio transmission, to convert the high flywheel rpm to wheel speed.

There are a couple of specific engines in Ram trucks under discussion. Check the hp ratings, and then come back and explain how the ones with the lower power ratings (the diesels) have more power.
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Old 07-31-2015, 04:14 AM   #24
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Does my intended usage warrant going with diesel?

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Originally Posted by J. Morgan View Post
I mean really, how much time do most of us spend climbing steep inclines at highway speed while pulling our Airstreams?

My little 5.3 L Chevy will pull every grade between Little Rock AR and Tucson AZ at 70 mph. (+)

Now I will say that on hwy 77 between Tucson and Globe there is a long stretch of 8% grade that I pull at 35 or 40, in the worst part, but I can live with that.

8% is not going to happen that often for me. As it is, I pass all kinds of big trucks on the grades so I am cool, for certain not the slowest thing on the road.

For spec'ng a TV, this is the right approach. A slow grade climb should be considered a norm. It's irrelevant to what matters which is control of the descent speed.

So far as I'm concerned, an engine that never gets worked doesn't last as long. A good climb under load beats an Italian Tuneup any day. Sitting at near redline for long minutes is a good sound. It's doing exactly what it is designed to do. Full use of the powerband.

If one is sitting on the fence then the 4.10 gearing covers the acceleration/speed maintenance "issues" while towing. With the low annual miles the OP proposes it isn't much of a penalty as it would be for someone with a significant commute.

Whatever the OP winds up buying, the words in these two posts are by experienced truck drivers. The former has a lighter rig than the OP, and the latter a more comparable one.
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Old 07-31-2015, 06:40 AM   #25
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I just don't understand the need for such a huge TV.
Just don't get it.
I don't have the facts and figures at my finger tips here but would guess that the 3500 diesel you are looking at has twice the towing capacity needed to pull a 27' trailer.
That big truck with 80 psi in the tires and heavy duty suspension is going to be a behemoth to drive and a dreadnought to ride in.
It would beat you, your trailer and the contents to death.
I've been driving 3/4 ton pickups for 30 years.
My daily driver is a 2500 HD Chevy with the 6.0 gasser.
I pull a 12K trailer with it frequently - have pulled it all over the country.
It does just fine for power, handling and control of the load.
But it is a rough riding darned thing and 8 hours in it leaves you far more tired and beat up than the same number of hours in my buddy's Chevy 1500.
I will always have a pickup. But I do long for the day when I retire and can downsize to a lighter pickup.
It's your money, your call. But I would suggest you seriously consider whether you really need such a gargantuan truck to pull an Airstream.
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Old 07-31-2015, 06:41 AM   #26
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Originally Posted by kry226 View Post

I would love to get the Hemi as it's a much easier truck to own, but I'm terrified of the buyer's remorse that hits as you're screaming up the side of a mountain at 5k RPMs.
While my insights regarding towing are quite limited compared to yours, and others here, this is at the very center of my concerns. The old saying comes to mind, you don't know what you don't know. Makes it easy for folks like me to buy too much truck.


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Old 07-31-2015, 06:46 AM   #27
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One important consideration between 2500 and 3500 is your real axle gear ratio! In recent years, now with ALL auto transmissions on the Ram 2500 you are limited to the 3.42:1 rear axle gears. Factory option 3.73 or 4.10 are no longer available! This may be more important on the gasser, as the diesel has more torque to deal with the taller 3.42 gears. So if you want more towing torque on a gasser, that may be a good reason to go with the 3500 over the 2500 - just make sure you order that option if you're going special order, or if buying off the lot just make sure you know what it comes with.
CORRECTION - It's the Cummins that's available with only the 3.42 in a 2500. The gassers still have options for 3.73 and 4.10. If you want those in the Cummins you need to go with the 3500.
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Old 07-31-2015, 06:47 AM   #28
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I mean really, how much time do most of us spend climbing steep inclines at highway speed while pulling our Airstreams?

For us, it will be every weekend we use ours. Smoky Mountains of NC and Tenn have some pretty steep grades. Again, it's not just the paved roads, it's the secondary roads that lead to other places of interest camping, fishing, etc. Lots of gravel roads and such. May be fine with Hemi, but hard to say. Really hard to make a decision like this without having towed anything heavy in mountains. That video didn't help, but I conceed that was a rare scenario, and 12k lb load. Nearing double what we would tow.

If anyone is familiar with the 45 mile stretch between Asheville,NC and Johnson City,Tenn, that's one of my main concerns with Hemi. Constant up and down, my Tahoe screams and hunts for gears, not towing.


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