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Old 07-19-2014, 10:49 AM   #15
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I have had only diesel pickups since 1982 and probably close to a million miles. I have never had a fuel problem of any kind. My 99 still has the original injectors.
The 2013 is averaging 15.1 mpg overall, almost all towing a 5000 lb Airstream. The trruck itself with a cap, 50 gal. aux tank and way too much other stuff weighs 9300 lbs by itself.

The fact that the mileage is only down fractionally from the 99 2WD speaks well for the engineering as the 13 is 4x4 , 130 more hp and a 200 lbs more torque and 2000 lbs heavier . Now I hope it all keeps working.

It appears to me the gas vehicles have just as much extra pollution crap as the new diesels so there may not be much difference in repair cost
I can't speak to the cost, but gasoline vehicles don't require urea injection or soot management.
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Old 07-19-2014, 11:16 AM   #16
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I can't speak to the cost, but gasoline vehicles don't require urea injection or soot management.
The urea injection is a basic almost nothing cost. It can be bought at the pump for $2.79 a gallon and I am averaging 1000 to 1200 miles per gallon.
The 2012 and older with out DEF do require a bit more maintenance but I think the first particulate filter cleaning is at 67000 miles.
The real question is how reliable the DEF system will be but it should be pretty well proven in big over the road trucks by now.
I was a bit leery of it until I found how little I used.
Like all new technology time will tell. Since I am no longer piling up many miles delivering trailers the reliability input will have to come from others
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Old 07-19-2014, 12:52 PM   #17
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Your cost for towing will go up with a gas version because it will burn more fuel. There are some things you can do to make your current diesel more fuel efficient. I have a 05 2500 5.9 and usually get 12-13 towing my 27FB at 65-68mph. My brother has a 2009 3500 chassis cab 6.7 and once he got to 100,000 miles he took out the egr and went from 14-15mpg on the highway unloaded to 19-21 mpg on the highway. Towing he went from 10mpg to 12-14mpg with his 30ft bunkhouse

If you drop down to a gas 2500 you're going to lose a bunch selling your current diesel and go to about 7-9 mpg towing. Instead of loosing money trading in your vehicle, take out the egr and your mpg will go up.

I'm not trading in my 5.9 cummins until it dies because I don't want to deal with the newer emissions stuff. When I do I will get a Dodge 3500 6.7 and drive it until the warranty goes out and take off the emissions gear to get better mpg.
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Old 07-19-2014, 02:08 PM   #18
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The urea injection is a basic almost nothing cost. It can be bought at the pump for $2.79 a gallon and I am averaging 1000 to 1200 miles per gallon.
The 2012 and older with out DEF do require a bit more maintenance but I think the first particulate filter cleaning is at 67000 miles.
The real question is how reliable the DEF system will be but it should be pretty well proven in big over the road trucks by now.
I was a bit leery of it until I found how little I used.
Like all new technology time will tell. Since I am no longer piling up many miles delivering trailers the reliability input will have to come from others
I have a '08 3500 w/6.7 and the EGR valve and EGR cooler require cleaning then but not the particulate filter. EGR is simple to clean, remove and soak in simple green, cleaning kits are sold pretty cheap thru Geno's garage. I don't know if this still required on the newer 6.7 or not.
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Old 07-20-2014, 10:47 PM   #19
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Soot management non-issue for modern day diesels, all automatic and "behind the scenes" as for the exhaust of the modern diesel, it is cleaner than a gasoline powered vehicle.

DEF is CHEAP and available everywhere, factored in with cost of diesel divided by miles per gallon (one gallon of diesel contains more energy than a gallon of gasoline) coupled with superior torque in a larger available rpm range (power band) shows the superiority of a modern day oil burner over a similar gasoline engine. DEF allows for the crazy great mileage the new diesels are getting over the first generation diesels with the smog controls so to create this clean exhaust.

The question people need to ask, do they need this superior technology because a diesel does cost more than a similar gasoline engine, so an evaluation of cost to value needs to be performed by all, with us all coming up with our own suitable answers.

For myself, I've had a diesel Touareg (superior to my V8 Cayenne), diesel trucks (both Ford Scorpion & Cummins), swapped my thirsty 2014 SRT Grand Cherokee for a 2014 EcoDiesel Grand Cherokee, (similar to my Porsche to VW swap - smart move) and now own a diesel pusher utilizing a Cummins 6.7 vice going with the Ford Gas V-10 similar sized motor coaches.

Yes - I have drinken of the Diesel Kool-Aid, and I Like It...
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Old 07-21-2014, 01:13 PM   #20
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Update to Post 6 above. I have just come back from an 1,800 mile RT to the Northeast with my '14 RAM with the 6.7L Cummins. Of the 9,878 miles on the truck, 8,762 were pulling my trailer. My MPG avg on this 1,800 mile trip was 14.3. Also used just about 2 gal of DEF. Also, a fair amount of mountain travel in PA, VT, and NH. Very good workout for the exhaust braking system, which makes a huge difference in how often I am applying the truck discs and the trailer drums. Met a guy in one of the campgrounds who said, "you buy the truck for the Cummins -- it just happens to be wrapped up in a Ram." Hmmmm!
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Old 09-04-2014, 01:17 AM   #21
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Update to Post 6 above. I have just come back from an 1,800 mile RT to the Northeast with my '14 RAM with the 6.7L Cummins. Of the 9,878 miles on the truck, 8,762 were pulling my trailer. My MPG avg on this 1,800 mile trip was 14.3. Also used just about 2 gal of DEF. Also, a fair amount of mountain travel in PA, VT, and NH. Very good workout for the exhaust braking system, which makes a huge difference in how often I am applying the truck discs and the trailer drums. Met a guy in one of the campgrounds who said, "you buy the truck for the Cummins -- it just happens to be wrapped up in a Ram." Hmmmm!
greetings, we have our first tow today with our new Ram 1500 Ecodiesel, we are towing a brand new 28 International signature, weight at the scale truck and trailer was 13120, we drove from Portland to Redding, about 420 miles, over the siskiyous? With an average over 55/65 when possible but in the low 50/40's behind big rigs when the the climb got tougher, we made it with an average of 16.9 mpg on paper, our EVIC got a reading of 17.4, burned around a gallon of DEF which btw is on sale at O 'Reilley @ 14dls per 2.5 gallons. truck handled great the trailer with plenty o juice left, but considering speed,safety, and tlc to your truck and trailer, we still have more power to pull if needed. I think once we get down the hills tomorrow to Sacramento we will be making an easy 17.5 to 18.5 at speeds of 60/65. There is no doubt. Anyway i will keep you pposted. Not to mention that empty we are getting over 28MPG over 75mph. Happy towing
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Old 09-04-2014, 08:35 PM   #22
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Luv my EcoDiesel Grand Cherokee, great engine - can't wait to hear how it does towing your Airstream with your 1500.

The modern Diesel engine is one of the great automotive achievements of this decade!!!
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Old 09-04-2014, 08:57 PM   #23
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The modern Diesel engine is one of the great automotive achievements of this decade!!!
Hats off to the Detroit diesel engineers!!!!!!!!!!!! - They deliver, despite each and every wrench the EPA morons have thrown in their works over the past 15 years.
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Old 09-05-2014, 11:48 AM   #24
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Just finished our first tow with our new 2014 Ram 2500 with the 6.7L. It pulled the trailer extremely well, plenty of power on hills. Coming from a PSD 6.0L, we were impressed by how quiet the engine is, too. We can actually have a conversation outside the truck. (That old thread about diesel owners idling their engines definitely wasn't started with this engine in mind.) We got somewhere around 13.5 MPG over about 100 miles, but the engine still only has 250 miles on it, so it's nowhere near broken in yet.

Now we just need to get our hitch set up correctly. We lowered the ball but the trailer was still tongue high. Our driveway isn't level (it isn't even consistently sloped!), so we didn't get it set up correctly at home. We'll do some more adjustments before heading home.
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Old 09-05-2014, 01:58 PM   #25
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2012 CTD gave excellent results for us ...14-15 mpg pulling a 25 over mountainous terrain; the torque was great - rarely shifting down. That is... until the dealer did the computer update! Now getting 11-12 mpg and the transmission is shifting all of the time ...no better than the F150 triton (plus mucho $$$ for a diesel) that we traded in. There has been a front end recall in place for about 6 months ...still don't have the parts in for us. We rushed into buying the Ram in order to not have the DEF expense; now, with the de-tuned engine, we wish we'd have stayed Ford.
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Old 09-05-2014, 06:33 PM   #26
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Hats off to the Detroit diesel engineers!!!!!!!!!!!! - They deliver, despite each and every wrench the EPA morons have thrown in their works over the past 15 years.
Actually, Detroit Diesel is only around in name. Daimler bought them a while back and all the Detroit engines are Mercedes engines now...

I would not give up the quiet smooth operation of the diesel. I love how my 2011 Ram pulls. My last truck was a 2500HD GM gasser with the 6.0L, and it was a nice truck, but anytime you had a trailer on it, I felt like I was killing it, and the fuel economy was horrible.

Just as others have said, there are many companies that make programmers to remove some of the components that harm reliability and fuel economy. This is a decent relatively low cost alternative that will improve fuel economy!
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Old 09-06-2014, 06:09 AM   #27
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We got somewhere around 13.5 MPG over about 100 miles, but the engine still only has 250 miles on it, so it's nowhere near broken in yet.
Correction - 12.6 MPG. I was remembering the wrong mileage display (overall instead of this trip).
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Old 09-06-2014, 08:06 AM   #28
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There are lots of options discussed here. However, not every aspect has been explored. And in full disclosure, I am a Cummins guy through and through.

I'm not a nanny, but it bears mentioning that altering diesel exhaust systems is illegal, and thus far, nearly impossible on the 2013+ Cummins. Folks exploring these options should really think about certain consequences of the alterations, to include warranty revocation and emissions inspections.

Secondly, the Cummins option in a new truck is around an $8,000 premium. If you do not tow everyday, and also use your truck as a daily driver, to include lots of short stop-and-go trips, the Hemi may be a better option. You can buy a lot of fuel for $8,000!

Thirdly, MPG is not, in and of itself, is not the only fuel consideration. One must take into account that gasoline in most parts of the country, is A LOT cheaper than diesel. I've been watching the 6.4 Hemi discussions on the forums and some are reporting 10-11 mpg (hand calc) with 4.10 gears while towing a 12k fiver. I get that towing my 30 Classic with my 04 Cummins!

Fourth, what about maintenance? Fuel filter changes for the new diesels are not cheap propositions. Nor are oil changes: 3 gallons of oil versus 7 quarts. The diesel probably has a longer OCI, but still, the gas wins out in that respect.

Fifth, no DEF in the gas truck.

Sixth, the above comment about today's new diesels being in 1975 is absolutely correct. CELs are often the norm now, and the emissions systems are very sophisticated and EXPENSIVE to repair/replace. They do not have an infinite lifespan. Sooner or later, you will have to replace the DPF to the tune of an ugly penny.

Seventh, those of us who have driven diesels in cold climates understand exactly why the engines come from the factory with a block heater. Gas warms up quickly. Nuff said.

I love my truck. The 5.9 just keeps pulling, and pulling, and pulling. But I know that after 10 years, I'm probably on borrowed time. It's also my DD, and when it's time to replace the truck, I'll have a hard time picking a new Cummins over the 6.4 Hemi. YMMV!
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