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Old 09-19-2019, 12:08 PM   #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Profxd View Post
Actually itís everyone on this forum thatís ignoring the system as a whole.
The system as a whole has two basic modes of instability. Static instability is directly related to how the TW effects TV handling. Adding the TW to the TV reduces the understeer gradient, adding WD reduces it even more. Dynamic instability is determined by both TV and trailer characteristics.

Nearly everyone on this forum completely ignores the static mode of instability by returning all the weight lost on the front axle. People need to understand there is a ideal balance between the two modes and what improves one will make the other worse. If one actually took the time to study vehicle dynamics and learn how the system as a whole reacts they would see that this is fact and not my or OOSís opinion.
Yes and no.
Your statement surely applies to setups where people are trying to pull a 30' AS with the smallest TV they dare to chance it with.
Pulling with an 3/4 or 1 ton, especially with a longer wheel base its not much of an issue.
That was my real world experience when I upgraded to and F-250 with the longer wheel base. I was surprised how minuscule the effect on the front axle weight was engaging the WD . With that said I engage it because it makes for a much more pleasant ride for the AS.
Engaging the WD I ended up distributing 480 lbs. 320 to the front axle and 160 lbs to the trailer axles. Having a 4,660 lbs front end weight on my diesel F-250, adding 320 lbs was insignificant. The truck steers the same way.
TV front axle ended up at 4,600 lbs rear axle at 4,720.
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Old 09-22-2019, 12:09 PM   #62
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I pull a 30' Excella 500 with a Dodge 2500 4x4, with 5.9 Cummins. I have found that W/D hitches of any kind are NOT needed. Sway control IS, and I use 2 linear-brake sway bars and tow on the ball. My AS came with 2 sway bar mounts already install and I use them. 😎
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Old 09-22-2019, 12:55 PM   #63
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I just purchased a 2019 Ram 2500 4x4, and was considering an upgrade to a Hensley from current Equalizer, to pull our Ď18 FC25. I was told by Hensley that, due to the height of the Ramís receiver, they donít have an adaptor able to drop the hitch low enough to get the trailer level. I ended up ordering a new shank from Equalizer that will make theirs work, although I have to use the 2Ē adaptor because they donít make it in 2 1/2Ē.

Just got it yesterday so still have to change over the hitch and see how it works.
This trailer is my first experience with an Airstream, actually first TT. But having pulled many construction rigs in my career, I am sold on the WD hitch. The extra down force on the steering and the anti-sway arms make towing it a dream!

The best proof for me was when we were heading west up the Tehachapis on highway 58. Itís a long grade up through the pass, and my truck, a Ď16 1500 Ecodiesel, couldnít keep Highway speed without heating up (it was rated just over the max for the trailer, barely enough power, gears too tall- but thatís another thread) so we were at 45-50 mph with lots of semis and other rigs flying by, with a high crosswind. The trailer stayed in line where it was supposed to, no drama.

Even with the massive amount of power the Cummins offers, and the sturdier components of the 2500, I donít think I would try to tow without a WD hitch. It just works too well when pulling what is essentially a wind wall.
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Old 09-22-2019, 01:48 PM   #64
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Originally Posted by OutbackUSA View Post
You know you have a lower speed limit that you think should be applicable world wide.

Itís not and never will be. Therefore, your reply is irrelevant.
.
.
Wow!

How rude for a uninformed forum newcomer!
.
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Old 09-22-2019, 04:23 PM   #65
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Discussion about WD & sway control is like a "best" oil discussion. There is more than one solution and not one "best" given all the variables such as, TV, TT, TW, Winds, road conditions, traffic, etc., etc., etc..

I've gone thru 4 different TV's during my acquisition of my 2007 25ft FB Safari 10 years ago. Each time, I have found it beneficial to "adjust" the hitch configuration and , in my case , the spring bars in both tension and strength.

I used to use 1200 lb spring bars given the rear load capacity of my TV and the tongue weight of the TT. With my current F350 , I'm down to 800 lb bars and light spring tension at that!

I use a Reese Dual cam and typically put a 500 to 800 lb Motorcycle in the bed when we travel. The F350 4X4 diesel has a bunch of front end weight already so I'm just moving a small portion of the bed/hitch weight back to level the truck & trailer.

Tows well, does not sway (even in West Texas winds and Semi"s) and since the AS likes a "tender" nose, does not strain the TT.

Weight Scales, personal experiences & copious written notes are your best friend...

Safe travels.
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Old 09-22-2019, 09:34 PM   #66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by out of sight View Post
I have never experienced any type of trailer sway and i have towed in every possible condition. I tow on the ball. Its hard for me to believe that trailer sway is not a myth concocted by people who sell hitches.

I also have ESC on my tow vehicles though it has never activated.
Sorry, do not agree!
I subscribe to the tenets of "Physics", or as you refer to it, "myth".
Being able to distribute the load across the TV and trailer in such a way that one axle's load is not being compromised for another translates to a vehicle that is safe to operate.
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Old 09-23-2019, 06:53 AM   #67
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If you're concerned about trailer sway you should definitely not be taking load off your rear axle.
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Old 09-23-2019, 08:04 AM   #68
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Quote:
Originally Posted by out of sight View Post
I have never experienced any type of trailer sway and i have towed in every possible condition. I tow on the ball. Its hard for me to believe that trailer sway is not a myth concocted by people who sell hitches.

I also have ESC on my tow vehicles though it has never activated.
Trailer sway is not a myth and it does occur. Any bumper towed trailer can be made to sway if the center of mass moves behind the axle. In plain English, if the majority of the weight is behind the axle, the trailer will sway. A tow vehicle with enough mass and traction can mask the sway but it is still trying to happen. So if you have always towed a properly loaded trailer, or you have a big enough truck then, you likely have never felt sway. If one cannot correct the weight issues through proper loading, then yes, many hitches can mask the issue. The Hensley and Pro-Pride are the best on the market for that task due to the way they operate. I have over million miles of towing(yes, I am an old fart) both with and without a Hensley. The Hensley makes some combinations significantly better. Others would not have recognized any benefit whatsoever.
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Old 09-23-2019, 09:06 AM   #69
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If your trailer is swaying and you can't feel it sway you could still see it sway in your rear view mirror. So, i can say that my trailer really does not sway.

At some point every trailer will sway. It depends on the rig configuration and speed. If you keep 10% of the trailer weight on the hitch ball it won't start swaying until well over 100 mph, so you really dont have to worry at highway speeds. Note that there are some older Airstreams that dont have a lot of tongue weight and you need to be careful about loading the trailer and driving too fast.
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Old 09-23-2019, 12:12 PM   #70
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Quote:
Originally Posted by out of sight View Post
If your trailer is swaying and you can't feel it sway you could still see it sway in your rear view mirror. So, i can say that my trailer really does not sway.

At some point every trailer will sway. It depends on the rig configuration and speed. If you keep 10% of the trailer weight on the hitch ball it won't start swaying until well over 100 mph, so you really dont have to worry at highway speeds. Note that there are some older Airstreams that dont have a lot of tongue weight and you need to be careful about loading the trailer and driving too fast.


Speed is not the only dynamic that can induce sway, crosswind, evasive maneuvering another, the first time maybe the last, a defensive attitude is a good reason to have a sway control device.
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Old 09-23-2019, 12:22 PM   #71
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Do I really need the Hensley?

Quote:
Originally Posted by rv4007 View Post
Trailer sway is not a myth and it does occur. Any bumper towed trailer can be made to sway if the center of mass moves behind the axle. In plain English, if the majority of the weight is behind the axle, the trailer will sway. A tow vehicle with enough mass and traction can mask the sway but it is still trying to happen. So if you have always towed a properly loaded trailer, or you have a big enough truck then, you likely have never felt sway. If one cannot correct the weight issues through proper loading, then yes, many hitches can mask the issue. The Hensley and Pro-Pride are the best on the market for that task due to the way they operate. I have over million miles of towing(yes, I am an old fart) both with and without a Hensley. The Hensley makes some combinations significantly better. Others would not have recognized any benefit whatsoever.

There is an old saying that is taught in pilot training ď There are Old Pilots and there are Bold Pilots but there are no Old Bold pilots ď another is if you operate outside the envelope your a Test Pilot. Thanks
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Old 09-23-2019, 12:33 PM   #72
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Do I really need the Hensley?

Oh, amen to that statement. Iíd rather be old than bold. Thatís why the first near sway event with my rig precipitated an immediate upgrade to a Hensley design (ProPride) hitch system. Just finished another marathon 3,000 total mile trip with zero sway issues and smooth towing.

Some might call it Overkill, but Iíd rather not have white knuckles while I tow the Airstream.

And no, one test pilot mission with this rig before the upgrade was quite enough, thank you very much!!! Crawling down the Cajon Pass at 30 mph was an experience I donít plan to repeat. Above that, the beginnings of a sway event were very obvious!
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Old 09-23-2019, 12:43 PM   #73
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A trailer being towed on the ball will do much better in an evasive maneuver than a trailer with sway control. You will need a freely articulating hitch point to avoid understeer.
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Old 09-23-2019, 04:59 PM   #74
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Do I really need the Hensley?

Iíll agree with you on a friction or cam-type anti-sway System. However, Hensley designs use neither friction or cams to provide anti-sway action. They work to prevent any sway regardless of being in a straight line or in turns.

I have personally had to put my rig into many hard evasive and panic braking maneuvers on our travels with exactly zero, repeat, zero signs of impending sway or bad tracking. Itís even better in big rig pass bow wave situations. A gentle push of the entire rig is all I feel, no loss of directional control of need to counter steer.
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Old 09-23-2019, 06:14 PM   #75
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rmkrum View Post
Iíll agree with you on a friction or cam-type anti-sway System. However, Hensley designs use neither friction or cams to provide anti-sway action. They work to prevent any sway regardless of being in a straight line or in turns.

I have personally had to put my rig into many hard evasive and panic braking maneuvers on our travels with exactly zero, repeat, zero signs of impending sway or bad tracking. Itís even better in big rig pass bow wave situations. A gentle push of the entire rig is all I feel, no loss of directional control of need to counter steer.


Yes, I believe that the trailer and tow vehicle react to forces somewhat independently to prevent sway.
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Old 09-23-2019, 06:34 PM   #76
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Do I really need the Hensley?

Due to the geometry in the trapezoidal linkage, the trailer is unable to sway, but any turning movement of the tow vehicle forces the trailer to track like a fifth wheel trailer, pivoting around a point very close to the rear axle of the tow vehicle.

Thatís the advantage of the Hensley design hitches. There are YouTube videos that show how it works.

The only gotcha is that the trailer body tracks far toward the inside of a turn (exactly like a fifth wheel) and you must be in the habit of swinging wide in tight turns.
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Old 09-23-2019, 07:48 PM   #77
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So even the manufacturers of friction sway controls agree with us. Some of them even tell you to disconnect the devices in rainy weather. As to how the Hensley system behaves, i have read stories about how they promote understeer. What I would like to see is a test. How about setting up a downhill slalom course on a 7% slope with three different rigs. One will tow on the ball. The second will use a friction hitch. The third will use a Hensley. Let the better hitch win. I'll put my money on the first.
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Old 09-23-2019, 07:58 PM   #78
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Do I really need the Hensley?

I already tried my ProPride setup downhill on the same course with the exact same rig and tow vehicle on the ball with WD only.

ProPride wins hands down. Thatís why I bought it. Understeer is NOT an issue with a Hensley design. Donít know where you got that idea...
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Old 09-24-2019, 01:17 PM   #79
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I think there are some combinations that might not see a significant improvement with a Hensley, for example, a 1 Ton dually towing a properly loaded Bambi. Even Airstreams are getting heavier, and as they come closer to the weight of the tow vehicle, sway becomes more of an issue.

I have never met a Hensley owner who didn't think they were worth every penny. Myself included. I towed my 31ft Airstream with multiple vehicles. A Dodge Ram 3500 4x4 Dually, a Hummer H2, and a BMW X5 with a Hensley. By far the BMW with the Hensley was the best combination.

I say if a person doesn't feel they need one, then don't get one. If someone questions whether they need one, a person who has used one is in a better position to answer than someone who has not.

I was happy with mine and will buy another if I ever get a TT again.
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