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perryg114 · 03-03-2016, 04:33 PM

Overall cost of ownership is higher for a diesel. For most of us 99.99%, it would take a lifetime to put more than 200,000 miles on a vehicle. So what happens after that, is not worth pondering. If something breaks is is expensive. The towing experience is great and if that is worth the extra expense then go for it. I would not pay $40-$60k for any vehicle gas or diesel.

Perry

J. Morgan · 03-03-2016, 05:53 PM

Imho, the biggest issue with diesels is that they cost a fortune to fix when they do break.

The fact is, if you take two five year old trucks, one gas and one diesel, you are typically going to be able to buy a rebuilt gas long block engine for less than the cost of new diesel injectors.

This just is.

Talis gentium ceciderunt.

Zybane · 03-03-2016, 06:33 PM

It's usually not the engine itself that is a problem, it's the emissions systems and the fuel pumps.

The emissions systems with DEF can be a real nightmare. My EcoDiesel Grand Cherokee had to go into service in limp mode because the exhaust couldn't "burn off". If you do a lot of short drives, IE: work is close, a diesel is not very good. They like long distance highway runs.

Also, the fuel pumps in modern diesels run at extremely high pressures. The engine itself may last 300K+ miles, but I have my doubts on those pumps. They are expensive. I decided to switch back to gas and got a Power Wagon.

wvstreamer · 03-03-2016, 06:57 PM

Good advice on the 99 to early 03 Superduty with 7.3. My 02 7.3 with 6 speed manual is superb. Each manufacturer has their best years and engines. My preference is older with very simple emissions deisels. This is my 3rd 7.3 with no issues. I found it last year...used with 100k. Sold my previous deisel for afew thousand more than I paid 5 years before. It was a 7.3 and the first person to look...bought it. point is that good ones are out there so if your budget is more comfortable with a good used one, you'll get years of service. I give mine the best service and quality parts because I have a fraction of a new truck cost in it. If I need to replace it I would look for another like it . If I were buying new or late model, gas would be more affordable. Do your homework. It will pay off. Just make sure you buy a truck equipped to exceed your requirements so it holds up better and longer.

Isuzusweet · 03-03-2016, 06:58 PM

Caveat...... I'm buying a brand new diesel, BUT this brand new diesel is a Toyota Landcruiser 70 series with the old tried and true mechanical 1HZ 4.2 diesel. Simple, honest, easy to work on and indestructible. The sad part is I have to move to Belize to drive it.

Back in the good old days of mechanical diesels, like my Isuzu turbo diesel and the above 1HZ, life was good, albeit noisier. As long as the diesel had fuel, air, clean coolant and an oil change two or three times a year you could count on fairly maintenance free, cheap driving.

Things have changed with the advent of emissions, DEF, Ecotec, Bluetec and a myriad of sensors and nanny systems. The poor diesel engine since 07 has been going through what gas engines went through in the 70's with the advent of unleaded gas and catalytic converters. The diesel has been forced to clean up and be silent. This has sent maintenance costs through the roof with very expensive oils, injection pumps, injectors, particulate filters, DEF and a host of other filters, catalytic converters, turbos and other nonsense. The gas truck is now the cheap drive with little or no maintenance required.

Supposedly, owners of one brand of diesel truck perform twentyone different modifications, just to make it run right. These mods of course will run you afoul of the emissions police, as did placing cheater firmware in the PCM, to make VW/Audi/Porshe diesels run right. If the big companies with their multi billion dollar engineering labs can't make them run right, can you afford too?

IMHO If you can get away with NOT needing a diesel, I would stay away from them. You will save a lot of money in the long run.

Anyone that I know that has a modern diesel has regretted buying it the longer they own it.

Cheers
Tony

ijustlee · 03-03-2016, 06:59 PM

If you pencil out the fuel economy savings against the extra cost of owning a diesel it won't pay off for most people. If you can rack up a lot of highway miles then maybe. Get out a pencil, paper and calculator and try it for your situation. To get reliability from the newer diesels Mr. Heweit removes the smog equipment which won't fly in California or most places where you are required to have inspections. Maybe they will perfect the smog systems someday but they are so complex it adds a lot of expense to owning a diesel in the long run.

Moflash · 03-03-2016, 07:07 PM

I trade every 3 years to minimize depreciation.I have been in the automobile business for many years and have found that if I trade every 36 mos I can drive a $68k F350 6.7 Platinum Supercrew 4x4 turbo diesel for less than a stripped down f150(K1500 or Ram)To drive a vehicle this expensive until it's worth nothing does not make sense to me.To each his own but I would rather drive a new vehicle every three years under warranty for less money but that's just me.lol

Sent from my iPhone using Airstream Forums

85 Sovereign · 03-03-2016, 07:08 PM

It's all a matter of personal preference and how you use and maintain your vehicle (gas or diesel). I have a 2002 F-250 (7.3L Powerstroke) with 203,000 original miles. It is my daily driver, my snow plow vehicle for the last 10 years, and tows my AS, motorcycle trailer, car hauler, and a bunch of other trailers over the years. Its had a couple of minor issues (brake caliper frozen, HPOP leak, turbo pedestal oil leak, and oil cooler o-rings gone bad) but other than that, just regular wear and tear maintenance. Definitely not bad considering everything this truck has done. I still average 17 MPG daily and 13-14 MPG towing. I don't know of any gas truck that will match the mileage, much less with anywhere near the same performance.

wvstreamer · 03-03-2016, 07:17 PM

Isuzu and ijustlee Thats kinda where I was going. I love the way diesels pull and the fuel mileage but the newer ones can be a money pit. Thats why many of us are hanging on to our older trucks. I could buy a new one if I sold my AS and quit camping. Don't think that will work.
Dave

J. Morgan · 03-03-2016, 07:17 PM

For me, it has been a matter that diesel light duty vehicles are damn expensive to keep running.

Talis gentium ceciderunt.

tjdonahoe · 03-03-2016, 07:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by J. Morgan

For me, it has been a matter that diesel light duty vehicles are damn expensive to keep running.

Talis gentium ceciderunt.

My 07 6.7 gets oil changes every 6 months, 4500 to 5000 miles , change front and rear axle oil along with the tranny oil ,each 50000 miles, oil filters cost 7.00 and chevron 15-40 is about 36 dollars, has 97000 miles that is the only expense..you take care of them ,they will run a long time...my old cat has 1.4 million and head never been off, bearings rolled in at 1 million and didn't need it...

J. Morgan · 03-03-2016, 07:50 PM

For me it has been that my gas vehicles last 200,000 miles without a major repair, and my diesels cant break 100,000 miles without breaking the bank.

#JustSayin...

Talis gentium ceciderunt.

J. Morgan · 03-03-2016, 07:52 PM

Big truck diesel engines are a in a different league.

Mine too often last well over a million miles without a major repair.

Other than some of the older Cummins and 7.3 Fords, light duty diesels don't impress me much.

In Little Rock, the "budget" price for new injectors in a Cummins is about 4K, the dealer price is about 8.5K......

Ask me how I know...

If new light duty diesels were 1/2 as reliable and long lived as big truck diesels I would be singing their praises, but they are not and I am not.

Talis gentium ceciderunt.

amaier7771 · 03-03-2016, 08:00 PM

We have over 175000 miles on our 2003 3/4ton Duramax Diesel, originally pulling a small SOB toy hauler. then pulling a 35 foot 5th wheel, and now towing our Airstream. A few years ago, i was about to trade the 2003 on a 2007 Duramax, but int he process, the wife said she hated her Minivan, and asked to keep the 2003 Duramax as her driver!! So now we have have two 3/4ton Duramax trucks... The 2003 gets 24-26 MPG when not towing, and 12-15 when pulling our Airstream. The 2007 Duramax, with about 128000 miles on it, gets 19-22 MPG when not towing, and about 11-13MPG when pulling the Airstream.

Both trucks were more expensive to start with, but after over 300,000+ miles on these two trucks, we are totally sold on Diesel trucks. We have driven coast to coast, and most every mountain road and pass from Glaicer NP in Montana, all of Colorado and most states to the west and south.

All service is with more expensive MR Goodwrench! I would certainly like to have a new Tow Vehicle, but these two trucks get great milage, have no expensive repairs, and have the power to run up the steepest grade, and engine braking down the other side, making travel very enjoyable.

So after 13 years of towing 5 different RV's over 300, 000 miles, we are very satisfied going with Diesel.

My brother and two friends did not go the more expensive initial Diesel cost, and all three of them are on their second or third tow vehicle in the same time period. I think in the long run, the higher Diesel cost has been a good economic, and towing choice decision!!

rideair · 03-03-2016, 08:31 PM

As I said in my first post, I have two Fords with the 7.3.

1. 2000 Ford SD, Crew, 4x4 with 326,000 miles purchased new
2. 2002 Ford Excursion, 4x4 with 351,000 miles purchased used (23k on OD)

If you run the numbers, thats about 45,000 a year I put them, that does not include other vehicles I use for running around, my wife's daily driver or rentals when I travel. (Yes, I live in my car)

Bottom line is this, if I were able to find another Excursion or Truck with 25,000 on the OD, I would have to pay as much or more for it now than I did 15 years ago! And could sell either one of them today for around $10,000 or more, I'd have to say it was a good investment even with maint. cost, etc...

At this point, I fully expect to get 500k miles out them.

If you have a 7.3 with low miles and want to let it go, let me know!

Enjoy,

Zybane · 03-03-2016, 08:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Moflash

I trade every 3 years to minimize depreciation.I have been in the automobile business for many years and have found that if I trade every 36 mos I can drive a $68k F350 6.7 Platinum Supercrew 4x4 turbo diesel for less than a stripped down f150(K1500 or Ram)To drive a vehicle this expensive until it's worth nothing does not make sense to me.To each his own but I would rather drive a new vehicle every three years under warranty for less money but that's just me.lol

Sent from my iPhone using Airstream Forums

It is true that having a new truck every three years is nice. But you are also in a permanent state of vehicle payment.

As for the Warranty, I was able to get a lifetime and unlimited mile bumper to bumper warranty for my Power Wagon. They don't offer that for any diesels.

dkottum · 03-03-2016, 08:56 PM

I would be more concerned with the longevity of our Airstream behind some of these diesels and the rigid suspensions that carry them.

Gas engines and their transmissions have come a long way in recent years to pull very well, even better with better axle ratios. There are also a number of smaller diesels emerging on the market that are very capable of pulling our low profile, streamlined Airstreams.

The penalty of light vehicles and compliant suspensions is load carrying capacity. It's not for everybody, but manage payloads and hitch weights to expand your tow vehicle choices.

timhortons · 03-03-2016, 09:46 PM

I think the 3.0L V6 Diesels SUVs from Germany are good.

These things come off lease at less than half price, and the reliability on the newer ones is much better than years ago ... While you get something you can drive day to day in comfort.

Even the VW stigma is overdone and might mean some real deals.

The vehicle will look unsightly and rust out before these engines fail IMO.

Isuzusweet · 03-04-2016, 04:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by timhortons

I think the 3.0L V6 Diesels SUVs from Germany are good.

These things come off lease at less than half price, and the reliability on the newer ones is much better than years ago ... While you get something you can drive day to day in comfort.

Even the VW stigma is overdone and might mean some real deals.

The vehicle will look unsightly and rust out before these engines fail IMO.

WARNING VW fanboy here..

I think the 3.0L are also implicated in the VW scandal as the Porshe Cayennes and Audi's have a stop sale on them.

I think that VW should not be allowed to sell ANY cars in NA until it fixes the problem. Then we would see some real speed in getting this fixed.

You can keep your $600.00 15,000 km oil changes thanks.

Back to the OP who is looking at purchasing a domestic P/U truck diesel....not a VW.

Cheers
Tony

Wolfe · 03-04-2016, 05:38 AM

i have a 1985 6.9 no turbo f-250, yes its slow but still gits the job done.
No smog junk on it no computer ect, wore out i traney and 2 starters.
I think i will stick with it ?.