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Old 02-02-2014, 10:31 AM   #1
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Diesel aftermarket performance chip?

As they say in the financial world, in full disclosure I have yet to pull my new 2014 25' Flying Cloud. TV is a 2011 Ram 2500 HD, diesel. Anyone out there use an aftermarket chip to help especially with gas mileage when not towing AS? I don't think I will need any extra towing capabilities with this combination but what are your thoughts? Specific brands to consider, if this is a good idea, or what to stay away from. This truck is still under warranty with only 12500 miles on it. Thanks in advance. Jim
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Old 02-02-2014, 10:37 AM   #2
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Old 02-02-2014, 10:37 AM   #3
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Jim, I would suggest you check out Dodge Cummins Diesel Forum for all your questions about your Ram 2500. Like all forums, you will have to search for the specific questions you have, but the information is there.

The bad news is, there is nothing you can do to your truck, short of driving it easier and slower, that will get you better fuel mileage that will not void your warranty, if the dealer should so decide.
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Old 02-02-2014, 11:11 AM   #4
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I've looked into it and it's my OPINION that the small mileage gains are not worth the expense. If you tow real heavy ( not Airstream heavy ) there are benefits in exhaust temps and transmission temps that may be more useful. I find, and I'm sure you will also, that we do not need any boost in HP and/or torque, there is plenty enough there with stock programming.
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Old 02-02-2014, 12:23 PM   #5
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IMHO: I have a programmable chip installed on my 7.3 liter Duramax F-250, 4x4 super cab. When I went from my 32' AS to a 35', 15,000# fifth wheel i found that it was necessary. Now that I have returned to the fold with my 25' AS I enjoy the added acceleration and improved mileage i get with the continued use of the chip. Even with out the AS in tow there is a marked improvement in performance. I would not be without the installation of a chip if I were contemplating a new P/U tow vehicle.

>>ron<<
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Old 02-02-2014, 12:34 PM   #6
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Ron,

Don't think the 7.3L is a Duramax, how about Power Stroke?
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Old 02-02-2014, 02:29 PM   #7
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GC1nSC2,

Thanks for the correction. I have no idea what I was thinking, especially since this is my 5th Navistar diesel. I do like the Duramax, especially when you compare the Duramax to the recent attempts of Ford to produce a diesel themselves since they no longer are made by IH. Once again, thank you for keeping me honest.

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Old 02-02-2014, 03:13 PM   #8
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I have a 2011 Chevrolet 3500 Duramax LML. It now has 70,000 miles on it. I installed an Edge Insight CTS. I have run it only on the Economy Tune. After about 20,000 miles with the Edge, I find that I get 1.5 mpg better mileage than without it. Not exactly a breathtaking improvement, but sufficient enough to amortize the cost of the unit over 30,000 miles. I also like the other information that the unit provides, especially the regen notification.

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Old 02-03-2014, 10:11 AM   #9
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Change of Opinion:

I have used the Bully Dog tuner ever since I bought my 31footer in 2007 and have been pleased with the performance. My TV is a 2004 Silverado with 6.6L Duramax/Allison

However, in preparation for our trip - departing Thursday, I hope - I wanted to see if an upgrade was available and, seeing that there was one, I upgraded, as I have done before.

The upgrade failed, the truck would not even begin to start, and there was no way to back out of the upgrade. I had to call my friends at Good Sam, who towed the truck away this morning. My chevy dealer said they would look at it tomorrow. I hope I can get away with a simple flash. If not, the computer is next.

I am now convinced to never even look at something like that again. High risk, marginal reward. Not a good equation.

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Old 02-03-2014, 11:13 AM   #10
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Originally Posted by carver 1 View Post
GC1nSC2,

Thanks for the correction. I have no idea what I was thinking, especially since this is my 5th Navistar diesel. I do like the Duramax, especially when you compare the Duramax to the recent attempts of Ford to produce a diesel themselves since they no longer are made by IH. Once again, thank you for keeping me honest.

>>ron<<
I would point out here that the problem PowerStrokes (6.0 and 6.4) were in fact IH/Navistar products. If I were a betting man, I'd put money on the reason for the 6.7l Scorpion being an in-house engine being the poor results and big hit to their reputation Ford got from the 6.0 and 6.4 Navistar engines. My impression (as a non-owner but gearhead) is that the Ford 6.7l has been a big improvement over the last 2 Navistars but wasn't without its teething problems at first.

The silliest thing about them (which was true of the 6.0 and 6.4 in the more recent versions) is having to take the cab off to do much work to the engine. That's just crazy.
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Old 02-03-2014, 11:18 AM   #11
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Ford's modifications to the IH designed engines earmed them their own black eyes. The blame was not just IH.
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Old 02-03-2014, 02:02 PM   #12
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Ron,

Any name you call it, a good running, well maintained 2001 7.3LFord diesel is a keeper.

Gary
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Old 02-03-2014, 02:27 PM   #13
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Not sure I would bolt anything on a motor under warranty. You are just begging for a warranty claim to be refused for what most of your respondents say is a marginal gain.

Just my 2 cents...

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Old 02-03-2014, 05:23 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DKB_SATX View Post
I would point out here that the problem PowerStrokes (6.0 and 6.4) were in fact IH/Navistar products. If I were a betting man, I'd put money on the reason for the 6.7l Scorpion being an in-house engine being the poor results and big hit to their reputation Ford got from the 6.0 and 6.4 Navistar engines. My impression (as a non-owner but gearhead) is that the Ford 6.7l has been a big improvement over the last 2 Navistars but wasn't without its teething problems at first.

The silliest thing about them (which was true of the 6.0 and 6.4 in the more recent versions) is having to take the cab off to do much work to the engine. That's just crazy.
With all due respect to your vast knowledge ("Gearhead") : I believe that you will find that after 03, Ford purchased the engine block and associated parts from IH and did their own engineering of the motors in question. In addition, you will find that the Navistar people (IH) were not included in the class action suit, only Ford.

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Old 02-03-2014, 06:07 PM   #15
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Quote:
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With all due respect to your vast knowledge ("Gearhead") : I believe that you will find that after 03, Ford purchased the engine block and associated parts from IH and did their own engineering of the motors in question. In addition, you will find that the Navistar people (IH) were not included in the class action suit, only Ford.

>>ron<<
What I think I find is that the engines (not just blocks) were assembled by Navistar in Huntsville, but Ford had several Ford-specific external (but essential) systems such as emissions control, software, oil cooler and a Ford-specific coolant.

They were each used in IH applications as well as the Ford applications. I'm sure IH had different software and such, since they were "heavy duty" applications not subject to the same emissions as consumer pickups, etc. IH called the 6.0 a VT365 and the 6.4 a MaxxForce 7.
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Old 02-05-2014, 04:39 AM   #16
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Welcome to America. Give me someting for (next to) nothing. Pop a pill, don't change bad habits.

Fuel efficiency gains are between the ears of the driver. Aftermarket "solutions" tend to do things like change torque control on the transmission . . leading to shortened life of that truly expensive component.

Short of buying a pre-2009 CTD, or a 2013 (DEF required) where fuel mileage is higher, the driver can cut fuel consumption effectively by:

1] Drive fewer miles overall. Combine trips.

2] Drive remaining miles at a higher skill level (it's more than just driving slower). Effectively, never use brakes and never idle. The details reveal themselves quickly to someone willing to effect some discipline on themselves.

I would never knowngly buy a diesel pickup where programming has been altered from factory settings. I know the so-called arguments and I am familiar with the various aftermarket offerings. You never get something for nothing.

A 1T of this type is meant to work hard up to engine design life of 250k (Ford or GM) to just over 350k miles (Dodge) and anything that changes the diagnostic decision tree as a vehicle ages is just asking for trouble.

One can find plenty of people who claim no problems only benefits . . but the commercial operators of these vehicles who leave them alone are the ones with the lowest overall expense per mile.

According to KENWORTH the difference between the worst and best professional driver is a one-third difference in fuel consimption. Same exact work, same exact truck, same exact conditions.

Learn to drive smarter is what works. And pays from the first mile to the last.

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Old 02-05-2014, 06:53 AM   #17
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To the OP,
I recently looked into putting a chip on my 2009 Dodge CTD due to the emissions equipment (egr) killing the turbo and dpf filter. It cost several thousand to fix these two items....... Diesels are overly expensive to fix.
Long story short - if you can find the tuners they are expensive. The only one that can help with emissions equipment is EFI Live or you could find a used Smarty or H & S tuner.
I tried it for a short time..... The drone in the cab was awful and I had nothing but check engine lights and other problems... I went back to stock and have been happy ever since.
With a 2011 truck be careful of your driving habits - meaning that you need to let the exhaust system regenerate on a regular basis to keep it running properly.
Love the truck, hate the emissions, will probably own a gas engine truck in the future due to the expense of the repairs.
Fuel mileage for my stock truck - 11- 13 towing at 70 mph, 17-19 non-loaded highway 70 mph and 15-16 mixed driving around town.
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Old 02-05-2014, 07:07 AM   #18
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To the OP,
IDiesels are overly expensive to fix.
Long story short - if you can find the tuners they are expensive. The only one that can help with emissions equipment is EFI Live or you could find a used Smarty or H & S tuner.
With a 2011 truck be careful of your driving habits - meaning that you need to let the exhaust system regenerate on a regular basis to keep it running properly.
I've had two Diesels now, an '08 Duramax, and now a '12 Cummins, and never know if, or when they regenerate, so how do you know, and what do you do to "let the exhaust system regenerate"?




Quote:
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Love the truck, hate the emissions, will probably own a gas engine truck in the future due to the expense of the repairs.
Fuel mileage for my stock truck - 11- 13 towing at 70 mph, 17-19 non-loaded highway 70 mph and 15-16 mixed driving around town.
My exact sentiments.
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Old 02-05-2014, 07:19 AM   #19
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SteveH,
To know if the truck is regenerating I can usually tell by watching the overhead console for a sudden drop in fuel mileage and often when at a stop light I can smell the exhaust. I know that I have stopped the truck too soon if I hear the exhaust ticking loudly when the motor is shut off. I always minimize idle time and short trips.
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Old 02-05-2014, 07:25 AM   #20
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SteveH,
To know if the truck is regenerating I can usually tell by watching the overhead console for a sudden drop in fuel mileage and often when at a stop light I can smell the exhaust. I know that I have stopped the truck too soon if I hear the exhaust ticking loudly when the motor is shut off. I always minimize idle time and short trips.
Guess I'm just not observant enough, but I do minimize idling. I was happy with my mileage until Chrysler did a recall and a computer reflash for emissions, and after that my mileage went down about 15% in all driving conditions. I think they must have increased the amount of EGR flow, or something.
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