Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 04-12-2015, 08:58 PM   #43
3 Rivet Member
 
2015 27' Flying Cloud
Washington , Washington, D.C.
Join Date: Jul 2014
Posts: 218
Well if you're planning doing chicanes while towing your Airstream consider this: a fully loaded (but not overloaded) FC 27 weighs 7600 lbs. So you're driving down the road and you decide to swerve sharply to the right to avoid a wreck. At that moment your Airstream becomes a 7600 lb pendulum attached to the rear of your tow vehicle, pulling the back to the left, causing your TV to want turn more to the right than you wanted or, possibly pulling so hard as to put your TV into a clockwise spin. Now consider which TV is more likely to resist this force: a sub 5000 lb. "crossover," a 5500 lb. half ton pick-up, or a 7000+ lb. 3/4 ton? Or an analogous situation: you're rounding a curve at 60 mph and something causes you to brake hard. Even with properly adjusted trailer brakes, that trailer is going to want to go straight ahead, thereby shoving the rear of your TV. That's also, by the way that the use of engine brakes or "grade logic" automatic transmissions on wet mountain descents is not advised: in that scenario, the TV is doing all the braking; and, going around curves, the TV and the trailer are not directly aligned.
Yes, it's true that semi tractors are much lighter than the loaded trailers the tow, (1) they're driven by trained professionals and (2) the brakes are set up so that the trailer does a greater share of the braking. Despite all that, low traction conditions, semis will jackknife if the driver is forced to brake hard.
No question, by itself a pickup by itself is, in most respects not as safe as a car. But towing a 5,000-10,000 trailer is a whole 'nother animal.😬
__________________

__________________
DC Bruce is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-12-2015, 10:49 PM   #44
Rivet Master
 
2016 30' International
Scottsdale , Arizona
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 723
Quote:
Originally Posted by DC Bruce View Post
Well if you're planning doing chicanes while towing your Airstream consider this: a fully loaded (but not overloaded) FC 27 weighs 7600 lbs. So you're driving down the road and you decide to swerve sharply to the right to avoid a wreck. At that moment your Airstream becomes a 7600 lb pendulum attached to the rear of your tow vehicle, pulling the back to the left, causing your TV to want turn more to the right than you wanted or, possibly pulling so hard as to put your TV into a clockwise spin. Now consider which TV is more likely to resist this force: a sub 5000 lb. "crossover," a 5500 lb. half ton pick-up, or a 7000+ lb. 3/4 ton? Or an analogous situation: you're rounding a curve at 60 mph and something causes you to brake hard. Even with properly adjusted trailer brakes, that trailer is going to want to go straight ahead, thereby shoving the rear of your TV. That's also, by the way that the use of engine brakes or "grade logic" automatic transmissions on wet mountain descents is not advised: in that scenario, the TV is doing all the braking; and, going around curves, the TV and the trailer are not directly aligned.
Yes, it's true that semi tractors are much lighter than the loaded trailers the tow, (1) they're driven by trained professionals and (2) the brakes are set up so that the trailer does a greater share of the braking. Despite all that, low traction conditions, semis will jackknife if the driver is forced to brake hard.
No question, by itself a pickup by itself is, in most respects not as safe as a car. But towing a 5,000-10,000 trailer is a whole 'nother animal.��
A very good post, here, Bruce. Thank you. This is where the expression "you can never have a tow vehicle that is 'too big'" comes from.

We're ok having a daily driver which sometimes calls for a bit of "muscling around" as compared to a 1500 gasser, in exchange for a heavier, more suitable truck for pulling a 30' Airstream with.

The Iridium Denali 2500HD Duramax/Allison comes in to our dealer mid-week and we're pretty excited about it. We will be trading in our only 3-month old Yukon Denali 6.2L, which drives like a luxury car, but are ok with the deal... given what we will have, in return, for towing.
__________________

__________________
DHart is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-12-2015, 11:25 PM   #45
Rivet Master
 
Vintage Kin Owner
N/A , N/A
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 995
Images: 1
Quote:
Originally Posted by DC Bruce View Post
Well if you're planning doing chicanes while towing your Airstream consider this: a fully loaded (but not overloaded) FC 27 weighs 7600 lbs. So you're driving down the road and you decide to swerve sharply to the right to avoid a wreck. At that moment your Airstream becomes a 7600 lb pendulum attached to the rear of your tow vehicle, pulling the back to the left, causing your TV to want turn more to the right than you wanted or, possibly pulling so hard as to put your TV into a clockwise spin. Now consider which TV is more likely to resist this force: a sub 5000 lb. "crossover," a 5500 lb. half ton pick-up, or a 7000+ lb. 3/4 ton? Or an analogous situation: you're rounding a curve at 60 mph and something causes you to brake hard. Even with properly adjusted trailer brakes, that trailer is going to want to go straight ahead, thereby shoving the rear of your TV. That's also, by the way that the use of engine brakes or "grade logic" automatic transmissions on wet mountain descents is not advised: in that scenario, the TV is doing all the braking; and, going around curves, the TV and the trailer are not directly aligned.
Yes, it's true that semi tractors are much lighter than the loaded trailers the tow, (1) they're driven by trained professionals and (2) the brakes are set up so that the trailer does a greater share of the braking. Despite all that, low traction conditions, semis will jackknife if the driver is forced to brake hard.
No question, by itself a pickup by itself is, in most respects not as safe as a car. But towing a 5,000-10,000 trailer is a whole 'nother animal.😬

This is an excellent post and a must read. Thank you!
__________________
rostam is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-13-2015, 01:15 AM   #46
Rivet Master
 
J. Morgan's Avatar

 
1972 31' Sovereign
1975 31' Excella 500
Currently Looking...
Benton , Arkansas
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 5,046
Images: 11
If one truly wants to dot all of the safety "I"s and cross all of the safety "T"s, one should forgo Airstreams altogether and move straight to a one ton dooley and a big fifth wheel.

Or perhaps we should go the way of Europe and make it law that a trailer may not outweigh the tow vehicle...

Or maybe not.

Sorry, experience trumps theory. My little half ton Silverado and my wife's 1/2 ton Tahoe are plenty stable and sure footed, even descending a nice little 8% grade south of Globe, AZ today.

For those of you with big trucks, I am sincerely happy for you, but my trailer does not need a one ton or even a 3/4 ton, and neither do I.




1/2 Ton 4WD Truck, 72 Sovereign Hensley Arrow
__________________
The fact that I am opinionated does not presuppose that I am wrong......

J. Morgan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-13-2015, 01:25 AM   #47
Rivet Master
 
2016 30' International
Scottsdale , Arizona
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 723
I think that for the most part, a 1/2 ton pickup will do an Airstream just fine.

And I think that a 1 ton or a Freightliner Sport Chassis is probably a bit much for said Airstream.

I think a nice compromise, with a moderate margin of safety, is a reasonably good course to take: the 3/4 ton and diesel.

__________________
DHart is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-13-2015, 06:05 AM   #48
Full time Airstreamer
 
SCOTTinNJ's Avatar
 
2014 30' FB FC Bunk
Anywhere , USA Living.Somewhere.Yonder
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 1,161
Quote:
Originally Posted by J. Morgan View Post
For those of you with big trucks, I am sincerely happy for you, but my trailer does not need a one ton or even a 3/4 ton, and neither do I.
To be fair, your 31' trailers probably came from the factory at 5,000 lbs each.

Today's 23' Flying Clouds are few hundred under that and the 25' Flying Clouds are a few hundred over that. A 30' Flying Cloud is 6,400 lbs and a 30' Classic is 7,400 lbs.

By the time you load these trailers up with 1,000 lbs worth of gear yours would weigh 6,000 lbs and a 30' Classic would be 8,400 lbs.

If I'm not mistaken yours are also narrow body trailers versus today's wide bodies.

6,000 lbs of narrow body is well within 1/2 truck territory. 8,400 lbs of wide body is . . . let's say not as well within 1/2 truck territory.
__________________
@living.somewhere.yonder | Instagram
SCOTTinNJ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-13-2015, 09:52 AM   #49
Rivet Master
 
J. Morgan's Avatar

 
1972 31' Sovereign
1975 31' Excella 500
Currently Looking...
Benton , Arkansas
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 5,046
Images: 11
Denali 1500 w/6.2L vs. Denali 2500HD Duramax

I fully respect the decisions of those who choose a larger tow vehicle, and for folks who have a bigger newer trailer and camp heavy, a big TV may well be a good idea. What bothers me is when these threads begin to "mature" into a devise where it is stated that 1/2 tons are unsafe to tow with. This just isn't so.

With a WD hitch very little weight is transferred onto the rear axles, and tow vehicle stopping ability is mostly a matter of rubber on the ground.

Beyond this, the difference between my 6,500 pound trailer and a 30' Classic is more than consumed by the 8,000 pound vehicle weight when compared to my tv weight of less than 6,500 lbs.

It also should be stated that properly set up trailer brakes will do the majority of stopping the trailer.


1/2 Ton 4WD Truck, 72 Sovereign Hensley Arrow
__________________
The fact that I am opinionated does not presuppose that I am wrong......

J. Morgan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-13-2015, 12:21 PM   #50
Full time Airstreamer
 
SCOTTinNJ's Avatar
 
2014 30' FB FC Bunk
Anywhere , USA Living.Somewhere.Yonder
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 1,161
I certainly agree with your first point. My f150 was fine with the 25' trailer. Anything below that would be even better.

But start talking about 30' new trailers like the OP and dynamics change.
__________________
@living.somewhere.yonder | Instagram
SCOTTinNJ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-13-2015, 01:36 PM   #51
1987 Avion 34W owner
 
PaulnGina's Avatar
 
Vintage Kin Owner
Good Ol' , USA
Join Date: Mar 2014
Posts: 1,892
Quote:
Originally Posted by DHart View Post
The Iridium Denali 2500HD Duramax/Allison comes in to our dealer mid-week and we're pretty excited about it. We will be trading in our only 3-month old Yukon Denali 6.2L, which drives like a luxury car, but are ok with the deal... given what we will have, in return, for towing.
You're going to LOVE it!!
__________________
"Long lay the world in sin and error pining
Till He appeared and the soul felt its worth"
1987 Avion 34W
1995 Ford F250 7.3L PowerStroke
PaulnGina is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-13-2015, 03:53 PM   #52
Rivet Master
Commercial Member
 
Andrew T's Avatar

 
2008 34' Classic
1960 17' Pacer
London , Ontario
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 955
Hi Bruce

"Now consider which TV is more likely to resist this force: a sub 5000 lb. "crossover," a 5500 lb. half ton pick-up, or a 7000+ lb. 3/4 ton?"

The above would be the assumption but in our testing on the racetrack the two fastest vehicles towing a 34' Limited in the 100' slalom and the 50' lane change happen to be the two lightest we have tested. The early 194 Chrysler Intrepid at 3600 pounds and the 04 Jag with an aluminum body that weighs 3800 pounds. The slowest vehicle we have tested is a 2004 Duramax Diesel 3/4 ton 4x4 crew cab short box. I was really shocked how poor it was, I expected it to be at least the equal of the sedans. I figured it was me so I kept running it through trying to get it faster. Then I turned it over to a semi pro race driver that was helping us and he promptly annihilated a bunch of cones.

On the other hand in the big truck you really don't feel the trailer at all even if it is hooked up wrong (which most are) so that has to be a reassuring feeling for a lot of people.


Andrew T

The quickest convention truck type vehicle we have tested was a modified 2009 1500 suburban which had lower profile performance tires, Bilstein shocks. My educated guess is that a Porsche Cayenne etc. would equal or better its performance. It would certainly be better in rough conditions where the independent rear suspension will keep the tires planted much better.

It seems that the weight of the tow vehicle has very little bearing on the amount of control in our testing it has been the cars with the best solo handling that appear to handle the best and easiest. I am sure there are extremes in each direction, obviously something like a freightliner handles so poorly that whether the trailer affects it or not it is still going to be poor. As great as the Mini Cooper we were able to play with handled a 20' Airstream I find it hard to picture it in an evasive maneuver with a 34'.
__________________
Andrew Thomson
London, Ontario

"One test is worth a thousand expert opinions."
Tex Johnston, Boeing 707 test pilot
Andrew T is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-13-2015, 04:00 PM   #53
1 Rivet Member
 
Gansevoort , New York
Join Date: Apr 2015
Posts: 5
Go with the Diesel - best thing you'll ever do.
__________________
ChrisHunt is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-13-2015, 04:40 PM   #54
3 Rivet Member
 
2015 27' Flying Cloud
Washington , Washington, D.C.
Join Date: Jul 2014
Posts: 218
@Andrew T-
Most of us don't drive on race courses with no other vehicles to worry about. The issue is not how fast a combination can negotiate a preset slalom course; the issue is how many degrees off a straight course can you turn in a very short distance without losing control of the vehicle due to oversteer. Or, put differently, how much steering angle will the vehicle's front wheels accept at highway speeds without the driver losing control? Back when SUVs were built on a pickup frame, the typical loss of control scenario usually happened after the driver made a sharp turn and was trying to recover control. As the driver applied opposite lock on the steering wheel, the compressed suspension on what formerly was the outside of the turn unloaded as the driver changed direction, often amplifying the drivers turn.
Of course the fastest way to negotiate a slalom is to stay on the throttle up to the point of under steer. But your typical Airstreamer faced with a developing nasty situation in front of him will likely lift or even brake rather than get on the throttle as he tries to avoid the problem.
So I don't think your test correlates with the real world situation that a person towing a travel trailer is likely to face.
__________________
DC Bruce is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-14-2015, 12:14 AM   #55
2 Rivet Member

 
2008 27' Classic FB
Ontario , Oregon
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 29
Nissan XD

So, this is a little off topic, but does anyone have any thoughts about the Nissan Titan XD diesel vs. the 2500 Duramax?
__________________
Shiloh4570 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-14-2015, 01:25 AM   #56
Road Geezer
 
Road Geezer's Avatar
 
2011 27' FB Flying Cloud
San Jose , California
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 268
Images: 34
Blog Entries: 20
So, I may be a bit biased. After about 1 1/2 years of reading and talking, I ordered an option-loaded 2500 LTZ Duramax. My first truck ever. In my case it came down to an EcoTech V8 or a Duramax. It was almost a coin toss, as the new gas engines really have lots of low end torque. In the end, though I opted for a diesel simply for "head room" towing. The majority of our mileage is, and will be, towing and our 27' is really in the low end of it Duramax's tow range.
__________________

__________________
As far as I know, this is the oldest I've ever been.
Road Geezer is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
1500


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Our new 2015 GMC Sierra Denali Duramax 2500HD time2play Tow Vehicles 91 08-07-2017 07:05 AM
Denali Sierra 2500hd 6.0 gas with 4.10 Pappy Tow Vehicles 42 07-31-2012 08:45 PM
Extended Cab or Crew Cab 2500HD w/Duramax for TV??? TomR Tow Vehicles 19 01-31-2007 07:27 PM
Hensley and 2500hd davidz71 Hitches, Couplers & Balls 4 03-24-2005 09:57 PM


Virginia Campgrounds

Reviews provided by




Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 05:58 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.

Airstream is a registered trademark of Airstream Inc. All rights reserved. Airstream trademark used under license to Social Knowledge LLC.