Cummins diesel or International?

[Eaglemate]

Rednax, that sure is a beauty. You are right, we don't have any good looking trucks 'round here. I will admit the manual might be a buzz-buster. It's not that I am lazy. Anyone willing to fly a beech baron cross-country with no autopilot just isn't lazy. But shoee, 3000 miles over the summer shifting all day long just ....well, sure would trade the gas for the comfort.

[bearmacdaddy]

No question, Buy a Chevy with the duramax and allison tranny. Bullet proof!!!!!

[slowmover]

Originally Posted by Eaglemate

Rednax, that sure is a beauty. You are right, we don't have any good looking trucks 'round here. I will admit the manual might be a buzz-buster. It's not that I am lazy. Anyone willing to fly a beech baron cross-country with no autopilot just isn't lazy. But shoee, 3000 miles over the summer shifting all day long just ....well, sure would trade the gas for the comfort.

That's a worthwhile consideration: I cruise around town in Direct (5th) from 30-mph on up. Don't have to shift at all on the highway. I use First but plenty of others don't, they start in Second. By shifting at 1500-rpm I'm pretty slow, but the past 1,100-miles I'm seeing 23-mpg in town. It's always a trade-off.

Have a look at the GM's, sure. But the "Allison aura" is just that. A nice trans, but not magic. Rebuilds are expensive on any of the autos. And 150k miles for any of them means that may be coming up. $4000 easy, maybe more.

But, since everyone learned that having a manual transmission behind V8-diesels was worthless, no one wanted them . . thus Ford and GM dropped them. A straight 6 with the man trans is impossible to beat for overall economy and lowest operating cost the past twenty years.

Just how much driving around in town are you doing (percent of total miles) and are you willing to change old bad habits?

That's all that's in the way.

[Eaglemate]

2002 Dodge Ram 3500 SLT, $10,995 - Cars.com

[Eaglemate]

It's an automatic, but looks good to me. And it's 7 miles from my house.

[Eaglemate]

Rednax, I don't do a lot of hopping around, but as the kids get older, I expect that will change between baseball and fishing.

[AdamB]

There's no charge to read the Diesel Power article I cited. Just click "no thanks" on the lower right hand corner of that ad... then read away.

[SeeMore]

I find it interesting that no one referred to the legal wars between Ford and International over the multi-billions spent on warranty repairs as the reason for Ford going it alone with their new diesel engine. BTW, it is the factual reason why you should avoid the Ford. Ford modified the International supplied engine then wanted International to pick up part of the tab for the incredibly high failure rate. To remedy the situation (International declined to sell Ford any more engines), Ford back doored the necessary knowledge gain through the Volvo purchase which got them the Penta diesel engine insight and decades of emission performance design data from meeting Europe standards which greatly exceed ours.

[Eaglemate]

Is DPE designated pilot examiner? Thanks for the info, and I booted the Ford. Have my eye on a 5.9 l. cummins in the Dodge.

[r carl]

Everyone knows its better to be cummins than powerstroking.

[SeeMore]

Now the owners are entering the fray:

Strom Law Firm | Criminal Defense Attorneys | 803.252.4800

[Eaglemate]

DPE, thank goodness this forum has saved me from myself. I had two dealers trying to practically give me those trucks....still calling. I took the advice and am on the road to being a cummins owner. It occurred to me I own stock in CMI, and I got it when it was at 30 bucks...hahah. Where's the loyalty here! Hard to find one, though. I am holding on to my money until I get what I want.

[SeeMore]

Eaglemate, I had to chime in (I lived in G-town back in the 80s) and I hoped to save you from what might have otherwise spoiled your enthusiasm for a great iconic aluminum lifestyle. My cousin's 5.9 Cummins manual just rolled through 250,000 with just regular maintenance and no failures. I switched my GMC TV for a Ram 2500 HD 18 months ago and am throughly enjoying my new 6.7 Cummins which delivers 15+ mpg when towing at max loads!

[Eaglemate]

DPE, good to hear it, and G'town is still the same. You and I probably went to G'town high together I am hunting for that Dodge......

[mefly2]

Altbought the fuel mileage sucks on our Dodge Ram with Cummins TD (as it does with most of the newer EPA diesel engines), we really like the features in the trim model we chose. Would I trade off my '05 F150 again for the new Ram diesel; probably not... based soley upon the 12 mgg towing the AS with the Ram.

[StingrayL82]

Alright, I'll bite on this. I've never owned a Duramax, but I have owned two Cummins (24v and 3rd gen 5.9), as well as my 6.0 Powerstroke. ALL have their issues. The Duramax was prone to intake issues and overheating. The 24v 5.9 Cummins had fuel pump issues, which led to failed injector pumps, and it also had APPS (Auxiliary Pedal Position Sensor) problems....I experienced both failures on my '01; I replaced the original POS Carter fuel pump with a PureFlow Air Dog frame-mounted pump. The biggest issue the 24v suffered from was the cursed "53" block cracks. The 3rd gen 5.9 had CP3 pump issues. That said, I loved both my '01 and '05 Rams.

The biggest drawback to the Chevy and Dodge is the lack of room in the rear passenger area. This is where Ford shines. The 6.0's Achilles heal was the casting sand left in the blocks, in addition to the Ford Gold coolant, which contains silicates. The oil cooler would get clogged, impeding coolant to flow to the EGR cooler, which caused the solder to melt and allow coolant to flow into the heads, hydrolocking the engine. Ford's desire to win the hp/torque peeing contest led to their request of IH to max out the VT365's capabilities.

The class-action lawsuit brought on by ambulance companies who experienced catastrophic failure of their 6.0 engines is what led IH to sever ties with Ford, after they attempted to blame IH for the failures. Ford asked IH to pay and were promptly told to go pound sand.

The fix to the 6.0 is easy and does not cost thousands (sorry, REDNAX, but I respectfully disagree with you on this....what I recommend is not legal, so I assume no responsibility for the advice I give):

1) Get rid of the EGR and EGR cooler and purchase a bypass system...prices average around $400 for the kits.

2) Add a coolant filter.....price is about $160.....IH runs them on the VT365 (the sister engine to the 6.0)

3) Flush the hell out of the engine and replace with an Extended Life Coolant....I use Fleetrite, but there is also Cat and a few others.

4) Gut the catalytic converter.

5) and MOST important........DO NOT CHIP THE 6.0!!!!!!!! The heads are attached to the block with Torque To Yield (TTY) bolts and will stretch. They can NOT take the extra HP and torque.

I have done the above and have had ZERO issues with my 6.0

If people are uncomfortable with breaking emissions laws, they can still install a coolant filter and replace the EGR cooler with a Bulletproof EGR cooler (Google it), flush the engine thoroughly and replace with ELC.

My personal favorite truck would be a Ford body with a Cummins engine and an Allison transmission, but I don't have the $25,000 to do the conversion at Auto World

BTW, my '01 3500 2wd Ram never got over 14MPG....4.10 gears.

My '05 2500 4x4 Ram got 23MPG, until ULSD came out; I never got better than 17MPG after that.

My F350 King Ranch 4x4 with 4.10 gears gets 16.2 on the highway, if I'm easy on the go pedal....12.3 around town.

[RickDavis]

Originally Posted by StingrayL82

Alright, I'll bite on this. I've never owned a Duramax, but I have owned two Cummins (24v and 3rd gen 5.9), as well as my 6.0 Powerstroke. ALL have their issues. The Duramax was prone to intake issues and overheating. The 24v 5.9 Cummins had fuel pump issues, which led to failed injector pumps, and it also had APPS (Auxiliary Pedal Position Sensor) problems....I experienced both failures on my '01; I replaced the original POS Carter fuel pump with a PureFlow Air Dog frame-mounted pump. The biggest issue the 24v suffered from was the cursed "53" block cracks. The 3rd gen 5.9 had CP3 pump issues. That said, I loved both my '01 and '05 Rams.

Very good post. I have a 99 24 valve cummins. (bought new) They were known for the fuel (lift) pump problems.. I have found the life of the pump to be around 100 k although some of mine have run longer. I think I am on my fourth and carry a spare. I do check fuel pump pressure from time to time. In my case failure of this pump has not resulted in any injection pump problems but this may be in part because i have a bed mounted auxilaury fuel tank that will pretty well siphon to the injection pump. My injection pump wore out and was replaced at 458K. My APPS sensor wore out at 360K. Neither failure was disabling on the road.
I have not suffered from the block crack problem or the famous dowel pin problem and have not had the 5 th gear problem with the manual transmission either.
I average 15 mpg towing an Airstream. less with bigger square trailers. and did not notice much drop when the low sulfur fuel came out. (3.54 axle) I have every tank of fuel that has ever been in it in a spreadsheet.
It has been the best truck I have ever owned
567,000 miles and counting.

[StingrayL82]

Yeah, I totally forgot that the 12v's had the KDP problem....I think some of the early 24v's did too. Didn't want to discuss the tranny issues, since they're not engine related, but you're right, Rick, the 5-spd reverse was a giant headache for Dodge....I had the H.O. 5.9 and NV5600 6-spd which had its own problems too...mine was rebuilt at 96,000 miles.

My APPS failed on me, while I was in Pilot Point picking up a horse. Thankfully, I was able to limp back to San Angelo, but it was one helluva long trip home, especially given that I left Pilot Point at 7PM. My fuel pump failed on me at 120,000 miles and took out the injector pump....that was one sucky day, but I was close to home.

It's weird how some trucks are affected by the ULSD and some aren't, I'd love to know why that is.

When I'm towing our 31' Exiss, I average 11MPG loaded with 3 horses and the living quarters stocked with food, clothes and other stuff, so I'm pretty satisfied with that.

I do miss my '05 2500 though and should never have gotten rid of it, but I'll save that "cut my nose off to spite my face" story for another thread.

[Midnightmoon]

Originally Posted by StingrayL82

Alright, I'll bite on this. I've never owned a Duramax, but I have owned two Cummins (24v and 3rd gen 5.9), as well as my 6.0 Powerstroke. ALL have their issues. The Duramax was prone to intake issues and overheating. The 24v 5.9 Cummins had fuel pump issues, which led to failed injector pumps, and it also had APPS (Auxiliary Pedal Position Sensor) problems....I experienced both failures on my '01; I replaced the original POS Carter fuel pump with a PureFlow Air Dog frame-mounted pump. The biggest issue the 24v suffered from was the cursed "53" block cracks. The 3rd gen 5.9 had CP3 pump issues. That said, I loved both my '01 and '05 Rams.

The biggest drawback to the Chevy and Dodge is the lack of room in the rear passenger area. This is where Ford shines. The 6.0's Achilles heal was the casting sand left in the blocks, in addition to the Ford Gold coolant, which contains silicates. The oil cooler would get clogged, impeding coolant to flow to the EGR cooler, which caused the solder to melt and allow coolant to flow into the heads, hydrolocking the engine. Ford's desire to win the hp/torque peeing contest led to their request of IH to max out the VT365's capabilities.

The class-action lawsuit brought on by ambulance companies who experienced catastrophic failure of their 6.0 engines is what led IH to sever ties with Ford, after they attempted to blame IH for the failures. Ford asked IH to pay and were promptly told to go pound sand.

The fix to the 6.0 is easy and does not cost thousands (sorry, REDNAX, but I respectfully disagree with you on this....what I recommend is not legal, so I assume no responsibility for the advice I give):

1) Get rid of the EGR and EGR cooler and purchase a bypass system...prices average around $400 for the kits.

2) Add a coolant filter.....price is about $160.....IH runs them on the VT365 (the sister engine to the 6.0)

3) Flush the hell out of the engine and replace with an Extended Life Coolant....I use Fleetrite, but there is also Cat and a few others.

4) Gut the catalytic converter.

5) and MOST important........DO NOT CHIP THE 6.0!!!!!!!! The heads are attached to the block with Torque To Yield (TTY) bolts and will stretch. They can NOT take the extra HP and torque.

I have done the above and have had ZERO issues with my 6.0

If people are uncomfortable with breaking emissions laws, they can still install a coolant filter and replace the EGR cooler with a Bulletproof EGR cooler (Google it), flush the engine thoroughly and replace with ELC.

My personal favorite truck would be a Ford body with a Cummins engine and an Allison transmission, but I don't have the $25,000 to do the conversion at Auto World

BTW, my '01 3500 2wd Ram never got over 14MPG....4.10 gears.

My '05 2500 4x4 Ram got 23MPG, until ULSD came out; I never got better than 17MPG after that.

My F350 King Ranch 4x4 with 4.10 gears gets 16.2 on the highway, if I'm easy on the go pedal....12.3 around town.

I think this is an excellent post. Spending as much time around these things as I have, I believe that you gave an excellent description of how to make a 6.0L last. The only thing that I have to disagree with you on is the idea that Ford was primary cause of the issues surrounding the VT365/6.0L. The transportation outfit that contracts with my company purchased 25 new medium duty Internationals with the VT365 in 2005. The were as bad or worse in that application as they were for Ford. They don't have any of the original 25 left that have not had major issues. Most have had at least one complete engine replacement on Navistar's dime. Some were flat out bought back by International when they tossed their internals for the second time. They are now phasing what's left of that fleet out and replacing them, first with MB powered Freightliners, and now with 6.4L Navistar engines. Both have already proven much more reliable in their fleet than any of the 2005's. The VT365's in those trucks suffered the very same EGR cooler, turbo, injector, head gasket, and internal engine faliures that plagued Ford. I just don't think that the problems were made as public as the Ford issues. I have no love for Ford, nor do I own one at this point, but I really don't think they deserve the black eye they have over that engine.

BTW...I was one of the lucky "53" block Cummins owners. Had one in my former 2001. That however, is a story for a different day.