Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 05-31-2015, 09:04 PM   #43
Rivet Master
 
dznf0g's Avatar

 
2007 30' Classic
Oswego , Illinois
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 9,402
Images: 5
Quote:
Originally Posted by NWRVR View Post
Going by what my TV dealer service dept told me when I gave him a 833 lbs TW with a factory hitch rated at 750 lbs but TV max hitch wt of 550 lbs. Two techs said no problem with WD. No welds popped so far.
The 83#s over on the receiver doesn't bother me too much....but the 283#s over the vehicle max does. There's some reason.....receiver attachment points? Rear structure? Sounds like one of those European rated vehicles.....that's been argued enough, I won't get into that one.
__________________

__________________
-Rich-

"If the women don't find you handsome, they should at least find you handy." - Red Green
dznf0g is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-05-2015, 09:00 PM   #44
Rivet Master
 
SteveSueMac's Avatar

 
2012 27' Flying Cloud
W , New England
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 5,409
Here's a new set of data following installation of 1400# bars on the PP vs the 1000# bars originally installed. Since Colonial thoroughly reinstalled the hitch (not just the new bars) including adjusting my stinger up one hole and adding 2 washers, this is not an apples to apples comparison with my prior scale tickets.

Rather than post 5 pictures of tickets (glad to do that if this doesn't make sense) I made a table and included some calculations for discussion. For example - for the FALR calculations - I believe when I asked in the past we said that FALR means the amount originally lifted off the front axle that's restored. So that's how I calculated in the table. However, see my note at the bottom of the pic. If I look at the weight from the scale with 6" applied (4500#) compared to the solo weight (4560#) I could say that's 99% FALR. Which call is correct?

I'm also assuming (and sure I'm wrong) I can approximate tongue weight by taking the solo trailer weight (6860# - more on that below) and subtracting the trailer weight seen at each scale measure (e.g. For 6" applied that's 6860-6020=840# tongue.

I welcome everyone's thoughts on these readings. Thanks!

Steve
Click image for larger version

Name:	ImageUploadedByAirstream Forums1441504812.157448.jpg
Views:	127
Size:	62.6 KB
ID:	247353
__________________

__________________
SteveSueMac is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-06-2015, 06:25 AM   #45
4 Rivet Member
 
GammaDog's Avatar
 
2014 25' FB Eddie Bauer
Vero Beach , Florida
Join Date: Sep 2014
Posts: 353
Images: 26
Steve: I plugged your numbers into my spreadsheet. I only use three scale passes in my calcs so I took a.) your truck alone b.) 0" and c.) 6" columns.

My calcs get 6,880 for the total weight of your trailer since I use the combined weights of all three axles from the 6" column of 15,020 minus the truck steer plus truck drive from the truck alone column. Your 6,860 is equally valid since the 20 lbs difference is an issue with the scale consistency.

I was taught that tongue weight doesn't change with weight distribution settings. It is a constant for any rig and is measured with no WD applied. If that is correct, your tongue weight is 980 lbs. When measured as a % of trailer weight it is 14.2 %. Going back to the golden rules of towing, I aim for a tongue weight between 10 and 15%. Looks like you're good there! Note that tongue weight also includes cargo aft of the drive axle. To measure tongue weight precisely one needs to weigh the truck with nothing in the bed behind the axle and compare that to the fully loaded truck and trailer with no WD applied. Given the size of your tow vehicle in comparison to your trailer I think that's splitting hairs. You are well under your tongue wright limit unless you start carrying bricks, too.

Finally, FALR. I had a long interaction with the maker of my hitch ( I use an Equal-i-zer which happens to also be set up by Colonial who did good work for me). Here is the FALR calc from the J2807 standard sent to me in a document from Equal-I-

*********
The FALR number can be calculated with the following equation.

FALR %= 100 x (W_D - W_C) / (W_0 - W_C)

where:

W_0 = original front axle weight of tow vehicle without trailer attached
W_C = front axle weight of tow vehicle with trailer attached but no weight distribution
W_D = front axle weight of tow vehicle after weight distribution

************

Using that formula, your FALR is 100 * (4500 - 4180) / (4560 - 4180)

That's 84%

Since the FALR guidance is between 50 and 100%, you're goid there too!

I hope that helps. Better yet, I hope it keeps the dialogue moving since each one of these interactions helps me to understand the dynamics and measurements better.
__________________
GammaDog is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-06-2015, 06:48 AM   #46
Rivet Master
 
SteveSueMac's Avatar

 
2012 27' Flying Cloud
W , New England
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 5,409
Thanks Gamma!

I posted scale numbers a couple years ago when I first got and weighed the trailer. Because the hitch was installed incorrectly, I can't really trust those early numbers. This set is my new baseline.

And if Slowmover is reading this, I gotta admit - closer to 100% FALR is a much better ride than 50% (though, I'm comparing a properly installed PP w/1400# bars against an improperly installed PP w/1000# bars...not really apples:apples).

Bill at Colonial asked me how I applied WD originally and I told him 6" from the a-frame. He sent me out at 5" with the new setup and thought that would be pretty close. I was having some porpoising and added just a half inch and it settled right in. I tested 5, 5.5 and 6" on the scales last night just to see what would happen (so I'm assuming 6.5-7" would get 100% FALR). And the rig is fully loaded (including full tank of diesel in the truck) as we just got back from a camping trip. So that's as real world as it gets 😄

I'm sure there will always be tweaks but I'm 100 times happier with the ride now!

Other insights welcome and see you on the road somewhere!
__________________
SteveSueMac is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-06-2015, 07:09 AM   #47
Rivet Master
 
rodsterinfl's Avatar

 
2006 25' Safari
Fort Myers , Florida
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 2,429
Images: 8
Quote:
I'm 100 times happier with the ride now!
Other insights welcome and see you on the road somewhere!
Good for you. I am surprised that you had 1000# bars. My tongue weight is 990# and Sean told me to get the 1400# bars- that the 1000# were too close to actual weight offering little correction. It sounds like you are good to go.
__________________
WBCCI 8653/AIR 60240
2017 Ford F-150 3.5 Ecobeast Gen 2 3.55 Platinum
rodsterinfl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-06-2015, 08:27 AM   #48
Rivet Master
 
SteveSueMac's Avatar

 
2012 27' Flying Cloud
W , New England
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 5,409
Sean told me from the start I needed the 1400# bars. You would think I would listen to the manufacturer 😕

I went with the 1000# bars (against his advice) for 2 reasons:

1) I was petrified by all the reading I had done in the forums about popping rivets with too strong a bar

2) I didn't (and still don't) understand AS's manual which states the tongue can't exceed 1000# and in no event can it exceed the receiver weight of the TV hitch label (1500# on my truck). (Is it 1000 or 1500? Is the warning about the TT frame or the TV frame - or both - or neither?)

So I figured tongue weight had to be 1000# or less and the 1000# bars would be the right choice since the 1400# bars would only tear up my trailer. I was so wrong.....

And FWIW - the ride back from Cape May included many many miles of roads under construction - a lot of bouncing and bumping and while a few things came off the key hooks on the cabinet, not a single rivet popped with these 1400# bars.

I thought it was great already but having it really dialed in correctly is a surprisingly great joy! I was trying to describe the difference in feel to DW on the ride back but other than "rock solid" I couldn't come up with the words. Just very happy with the improvement!!
__________________
SteveSueMac is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-06-2015, 11:08 AM   #49
4 Rivet Member
 
Livingston , Texas
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 394
Quote:
Originally Posted by SteveSueMac View Post
And FWIW - the ride back from Cape May included many many miles of roads under construction - a lot of bouncing and bumping and while a few things came off the key hooks on the cabinet, not a single rivet popped with these 1400# bars.

I thought it was great already but having it really dialed in correctly is a surprisingly great joy! I was trying to describe the difference in feel to DW on the ride back but other than "rock solid" I couldn't come up with the words. Just very happy with the improvement!!
Steve, which jack setting did you use on the ride back from Cape May?

With the 1400# bars, have you traveled the same route with different jack settings -- say, 5" and 6"?
This would give you an apples-to-apples comparison of the effects of different amounts of load transfer.

Ron
__________________
Ron Gratz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-06-2015, 01:41 PM   #50
Rivet Master
 
SteveSueMac's Avatar

 
2012 27' Flying Cloud
W , New England
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 5,409
Hi Ron - he set me up at 5" leaving the lot and I upped it to 5.5" about a hundred miles later - much better ride at 5.5". I never actually rode at 6" with the new 1400# bars but cranked them to 6 at the scales just to see the numbers. I think 5.5" is the right setting but I'll keep experimenting.

I wish everyone could drive it to feel it 😄
__________________
SteveSueMac is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-06-2017, 04:15 PM   #51
Vintage Kin
 
slowmover's Avatar
 
Fort Worth , Texas
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 7,582
Images: 1
100% is first goal. Going both above and below that to test is always worthwhile.

Tire pressure on TV is related. The "real" sweet spot is when both tire pressure and WDH settings are confirmed by scale numbers.

Tuning truck suspension is the next option. (Not the function of tire pressure). Shock absorber upgrades and rear Panhard Rod (trac bar) past the easy step of greaseable polyurethane anti-roll bar bushings (Energy Suspension). Not necessary, but worth consideration. I modified mine with shocks and bars awhile back. SteveH [?] did his Cummins with the Henderson Lineup track bar.

And, no, I missed this till today. You linked it from another thread. 👏🏻

Nothing quite like off-camber, narrow-lane Interstate construction lane changes to test it, eh? That "test" rolled someone around here recently, IIRC.

.
__________________

__________________
1990 35' Silver Streak Sterling; 9k GVWR.
2004 DODGE Cummins 305/555; 6-manual; 9k GVWR.
Hensley Arrow. 9-cpm solo, 15-cpm towing
Sold: Silver Streak Model 3411
slowmover is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Calculating Tongue Weight at the CAT scales? SteveSueMac Hitches, Couplers & Balls 39 03-23-2017 06:44 AM
visited CAT scales - the numbers are in... 2airishuman Towing, Tow Vehicles & Hitches 143 08-23-2015 03:55 PM
Took a trip to the CAT scales phbarnhart Towing, Tow Vehicles & Hitches 48 07-26-2015 07:50 PM
results of CAT Scales and WD hitch adjustments funkill Hitches, Couplers & Balls 10 07-11-2009 07:35 PM


Virginia Campgrounds

Reviews provided by




Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 12:16 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.

Airstream is a registered trademark of Airstream Inc. All rights reserved. Airstream trademark used under license to Social Knowledge LLC.