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Old 05-29-2015, 09:51 PM   #15
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Originally Posted by GammaDog View Post
The tongue weight is also good with the hitch on. It's 740 lbs. However, at this much WD dialed in, I've put the tongue weigh at 10.9% of the trailer weight. I'm not included to go lower (more WD) since I don't want to go under 10% for trailer handling reasons.
The indicated tongue weight is (3200+4340) - (3580+3040) = 920#.

With WD applied, the net load added to the TV's axles was 740#, and the load added to the TT's axles was 180# -- also giving an indicated tongue weight of 920#.

The indicated tongue weight percentage was 920/6769 = 13.6%.

However, the WDH should have been in the receiver when the "Truck alone" weights were obtained.
Assuming the WDH weighs 80#, it would have caused about 40# to be removed from the front axle and about 120# to be added to the rear.
This would have changed the front axle weight to 3540# and the rear to 3160#.

With the WDH in the receiver for the "Truck alone", the indicated tongue weight would have been about 840#, and the TW% would have been about 840/6680 = 12.6%.
The front axle load when hitched with WD applied would have been 3560 versus an adjusted "Truck alone" weight of 3540#.

I would not try to achieve more WD.

Ron
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Old 05-30-2015, 06:02 AM   #16
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Thanks for the feedback, Ron.

As I read your comment it appears that the proper way to measure tongue weight is without the WD bars in their functional position? The weights you chose for the truck with trailer were that pass (3200 + 4340) as opposed to the pass I chose which has the weight bars tensioned and produced (3560 + 3800). That choice produces the 740 versus 920 tongue weight.

I believed the measurements and calcs should compare the truck without trailer or hitch gear versus the truck and trailer set up for travel. Did I get that wrong?
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Old 05-30-2015, 07:44 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron Gratz View Post
The indicated tongue weight is (3200+4340) - (3580+3040) = 920#.

With WD applied, the net load added to the TV's axles was 740#, and the load added to the TT's axles was 180# -- also giving an indicated tongue weight of 920#.

The indicated tongue weight percentage was 920/6769 = 13.6%.

However, the WDH should have been in the receiver when the "Truck alone" weights were obtained.
Assuming the WDH weighs 80#, it would have caused about 40# to be removed from the front axle and about 120# to be added to the rear.
This would have changed the front axle weight to 3540# and the rear to 3160#.

With the WDH in the receiver for the "Truck alone", the indicated tongue weight would have been about 840#, and the TW% would have been about 840/6680 = 12.6%.
The front axle load when hitched with WD applied would have been 3560 versus an adjusted "Truck alone" weight of 3540#.

I would not try to achieve more WD.

Ron
Ron the truck only weight was with the Husky hitch installed in the receiver hitch but not the parts that attach to the trailer or the WD bars. The hitch weighs 80# (I weighed it last week at home using a bathroom scale)

Thanks for your help.
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Old 05-30-2015, 09:45 AM   #18
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All good advice here. Two other things you can do. Cross the scale with one side of the wheels on the apron and the opposite side on the scale. That way you can determine individual wheel weights except the trailer tire weights will be combined. OR - Go to an Escapees SmartWeight site or Rally.

Can't say enough good things about their program and Mark Nemeth who runs it. With SmartWeight you get actual individual tire weights. I'm on the road and the weight sheet is at home, but as I recall the first time my front 27FB axle weights were in the neighborhood 1700#s +/- each tire and the rear were 1200 or 1300#s +/- each. The floor was close to dead level using a carpenter's level. Mark suggested I raise the hitch ball upward one inch. The floor still measured close to dead level, but the trailer tire weights shifted to 1500#s +/- each tire. I measured with 5 gals in each waste tank and 30 gals. fresh water, full propane, full provisions for hitting the road.

BTW the tongue weight was 990#s.

I can't tell a lot of difference in the tow feel, but I feel more comfortable that each tire is carrying it's own load.
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Old 05-30-2015, 06:42 PM   #19
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As I read your comment it appears that the proper way to measure tongue weight is without the WD bars in their functional position? The weights you chose for the truck with trailer were that pass (3200 + 4340) as opposed to the pass I chose which has the weight bars tensioned and produced (3560 + 3800). That choice produces the 740 versus 920 tongue weight.
Tongue weight is the vertical load which is imposed by the coupler against the ball when WD is not activated.
If you use the load on the TV axles obtained with "the weight bars tensioned", you will not be calculating the correct tongue weight.
Your calculated tongue weight will be too low by the amount of load transferred to the TT's axles

Quote:
I believed the measurements and calcs should compare the truck without trailer or hitch gear versus the truck and trailer set up for travel. Did I get that wrong?
The weight of the WDH is not included in the "tongue weight".
Since the load on the TV, with TT attached, does include the weight of the WDH, the "Truck only" weight also must include the weight of the WDH.

If you make the "Truck only" weighing without having the WDH in the receiver, your calculation of tongue weight will be too large by an amount equal to the weight of the WDH.

Ron
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Old 05-30-2015, 07:25 PM   #20
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Adding to Ron's comments for those that have ProPrides. When I got my last setup from Sean the weight of just the head was about 80#. Since that isn't going to come off the trailer on a CAT scale you could adjust the tongue weight by subtracting the 80#. Ron, have I got that right? Would you also delete the weight of the bars since they are attached to the head?
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Old 05-30-2015, 10:15 PM   #21
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Adding to Ron's comments for those that have ProPrides. When I got my last setup from Sean the weight of just the head was about 80#. Since that isn't going to come off the trailer on a CAT scale you could adjust the tongue weight by subtracting the 80#. Ron, have I got that right? Would you also delete the weight of the bars since they are attached to the head?
From a yaw stability consideration --
any weight which moves as though it is a part of the trailer should be considered part of the trailer weight, and
any weight which moves as though it is a part of the tow vehicle should be considered part of the tow vehicle.

With the ProPride system, the weight of the adjustable draw bar and the front (lower) part of the hitch head should be considered part of the tow vehicle.
The weight of the rear (upper) portion of the hitch head and the yoke system should be considered part of the trailer.

The movements of the WD bars more closely follow the movement of the trailer, and they can be considered as part of the weight of the trailer.
The movements of the linkages between the front and rear portions of the hitch don't closely follow the movements of either the tow vehicle or trailer.
I would assign half of the weight of the linkage bars to the TV and half to the TT.

Since it would be difficult to dismantle the hitch head to weigh its components, I think it's sufficient to assign 50% of the weight of the PP hitch as part of the weight of the TV and 50% as part of the weight of the TT.

Ron
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Old 05-31-2015, 08:34 AM   #22
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Wd

Does anyone know how much a hensley arrow hitch weighs and would that weight be added to TV or Trailer? Thanks Rand
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Old 05-31-2015, 08:50 AM   #23
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Here's what I use. I weighed the components on a bath scale.


Hitch weight Calculation:
Hensley total: 166.5#
Hensley head: 99#
Remainder: 67.5# (Use 23# as TV load and 45# as tongue weight)

I disagree with Ron slightly. I think ALL hitch components below and forward of the coupler socket, including ball, are truck receiver weight. And only the WD jacks and brackets (yoke on PP) plus a portion of the WD bars and struts are AS tongue weight.

The weights above are the head and WD bars only. The stinger and (in my case), rocktamers are already on the truck for towing and weighing, and are totally TV receiver weight.

The "remainder" number are the weights of the WD bars and the struts....which have some of their weight suspended by the tongue (tongue weight) and some of their weight suspended by the head (TV receiver weight). The split is a bit of a swag, but close enough.
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Old 05-31-2015, 08:56 AM   #24
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Wd

Thanks Rich if I understand your saying 122 lbs to TV and 45 lbs to the trailer. Is that right? Thanks Rand
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Old 05-31-2015, 09:01 AM   #25
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yes, Rand. And weigh the truck with stinger, etc. on the truck receiver. This would indicate weighing the AS tongue with all the permanently added HAHA components installed, then subtract 122#s for actual tongue weight.

However, there is a bit more math involved if you weigh the tongue at the jack post instead of at the ball. (which is difficult with a HAHA/PP)
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Old 05-31-2015, 09:05 AM   #26
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A = (BY)/X where:
A = calculated weight at ball
B = observed weight at jack
Y=Axle to jack in feet (18’)
X=Axle to ball in feet (18.75’)

Substitute your Y and X figures.
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Old 05-31-2015, 09:18 AM   #27
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Wd

Thanks again Rich that helps a lot I was close to max weight on the camper but had been weighing the camper with the Arrow on the camper. This gives me a little wiggle room. No problem with the truck I have a ram 2500 crew cab and 8ft bed was just at the scales yesterday. They allowed me to weigh just the trailer but that was with the hensley hanging on the tongue. Subtracting a 122 lbs will help a lot. Thanks Rand
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Old 05-31-2015, 10:44 AM   #28
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For Propride folks I looked up the UPS labels I had. There were 4 boxes, with weights of 82, 56, 52, and 40#. They were well packed with spray in foam. Heaviest was the Head. So 230# total, think you could use 6# per box for packing and you end up with 206#. Some portion of that would be subtracted from the calculated tongue weight using Ron's calculation methods. In my setup the calculated weight was 1040#. Using a 75/25 split (stinger, head, bars) I would reduce the 1040# to 886#. That's not far off of the factory published weight and would be a 10.3% tongue weight of the overall weight.
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