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04-18-2018, 10:09 PM
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#1
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3 Rivet Member
2013 25' International
Boise
, Idaho
Join Date: May 2017
Posts: 194
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CAT Scale Results
Truck - loaded for light camping with about 350 lbs of gear, 3/4 tank of gas. I was not present in the seat for any weights, wife not included either.
Trailer - close to camping weight - 70% propane, 100% fresh water, no food.
Pass #1 - TV only
FA: 3260
RA: 2820
Pass #2 - Trailer only
Tongue: 1060
Axels: 5280
Pass #3 - NO WD (bars no included in measurements)
FA: 2920
RA: 4020
Trailer: 5480
Pass #4 - WD engaged
FA: 3040
RA: 3880
Trailer: 5540
Definitely some oddities - like how did the weight on the axles go up when hitched? Airstream claims 886# for tongue as specd but I've dropped the LA batteries and would expect the tongue weight to be below original spec.
Am I right in concluding I need a little more WD - planning on adding another washer on the Equal-i-zer. Trailer attitude is good, slightly tongue down but going up again would not allow me to lower my truck bed door which would suck.
Any other thoughts? Thanks!
Adam
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04-19-2018, 03:55 AM
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#2
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Rivet Master
2018 27' International
Southeastern MI
, Michigan
Join Date: Aug 2016
Posts: 2,344
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Quote:
Originally Posted by afk314
Truck - loaded for light camping with about 350 lbs of gear, 3/4 tank of gas. I was not present in the seat for any weights, wife not included either.
Trailer - close to camping weight - 70% propane, 100% fresh water, no food.
Pass #1 - TV only
FA: 3260
RA: 2820
Pass #2 - Trailer only
Tongue: 1060
Axels: 5280
Pass #3 - NO WD (bars no included in measurements)
FA: 2920
RA: 4020
Trailer: 5480
Pass #4 - WD engaged
FA: 3040
RA: 3880
Trailer: 5540
Definitely some oddities - like how did the weight on the axles go up when hitched? Airstream claims 886# for tongue as specd but I've dropped the LA batteries and would expect the tongue weight to be below original spec.
Am I right in concluding I need a little more WD - planning on adding another washer on the Equal-i-zer. Trailer attitude is good, slightly tongue down but going up again would not allow me to lower my truck bed door which would suck.
Any other thoughts? Thanks!
Adam
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3000 lbs on the front axle ought to be plenty. But more importantly, how does it drive???
You’re not transferring much weight. And I’m not surprised by the tongue weight being over spec.
__________________
2018 International Serenity 27' FB
Michelin 16” tires
Hensley Arrow hitch
Tow Vehicle: 2020 F-350 6.7L Diesel
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04-19-2018, 05:30 AM
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#3
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4 Rivet Member
Byron Center
, Michigan
Join Date: Aug 2017
Posts: 275
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I’ll comment on the tongue weight - AS provides a general guestimate without options and without water and cargo. They’re also known to be somewhat off. As you add your supplies, the tongue weight will go up. Especially if you used a Propride or Hensley (the head adds directly to tongue weight).
I’d also suggest that good weighing technique include you and your wife in the TV so you can see how that affects the payload numbers.
Glad you’re doing this. It’s cheap, and you learn a lot about your setup. I know I find it interesting.
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04-19-2018, 06:46 AM
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#4
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Rivet Master
Livingston
, Texas
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 586
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Looks like you are still 220lbs light on the front. That is is you are looking for 100% restorative force.
As well as CAT numbers, I like to measure the TV’s actual measurement of the change in heights of the TV’s “attitude”. That is how far off “normal” is the TV. Ie: does it show high or low at the front and rear axles. As well as the measurements of the AS hitch and bumper.
You are heading in the right direction.
As you noted, another washer in the head should do it. Including the extra cargo you would load. Just don’t forget the wife!
And as Countryboy noted; published hitch weights are just that, a number, nothing close to actual because every AS is loaded differently with unknown items.
Would you rather have a properly hitched setup or have the tailgate open all the way. That’s for you to determine.
__________________
Sphere Guy
AIR 50601
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04-19-2018, 08:00 AM
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#5
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"Cloudsplitter"
2003 25' Classic
Houstatlantavegas
, Malebolgia
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 20,000
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I'm also 200# light on the front axle...I've restored to 100% with no appreciable handling improvement.
As noted it, is paramount that both TV & AS be level when WD is properly set. (tongue 1"-2" low better than high)
My tickets.... notice the weight is transferred from the TV rear axle to the steering axle and back to the AS axles.
When tongue is lifted the weight runs 'downhill' to the front and rear.
Bob
🇱🇷
__________________
I’m done with ‘adulting’…Let’s go find Bigfoot.
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04-19-2018, 08:22 AM
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#6
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Rivet Master
2002 30' Classic S/O
Fleming Island
, Florida
Join Date: Nov 2013
Posts: 4,673
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Quote:
Originally Posted by afk314
...
Definitely some oddities - like how did the weight on the axles go up when hitched? Airstream claims 886# for tongue as specd but I've dropped the LA batteries and would expect the tongue weight to be below original spec.
Am I right in concluding I need a little more WD - planning on adding another washer on the Equal-i-zer. Trailer attitude is good, slightly tongue down but going up again would not allow me to lower my truck bed door which would suck.
Any other thoughts? Thanks!
Adam
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Axle weight will change if the trailer is not in the same attitude as when weighed with the truck. Axle weight will be higher the higher the tongue is.
Others have commented on the tongue weight. The published tongue weight means little or nothing. For good towing common practice is the tongue weight should be 10%-15% of trailer total weight. I try to run at around 12%.
You can also raise the equalizer brackets to increase weight transfer. It is an iterative process of adjusting the number of washers, the bracket height, and the shank drop to get weight distribution dialed in and the trailer level. General guidance is to restore 50% to 100% of the weight back to the front axle. Some vehicle manufacturers put their recommendation in the manual. You can get close in your driveway by measuring the distance from the center of the wheel well opening to a point on the wheel instead of weighing, then confirm your setup with a weighing.
Al
__________________
“You cannot reason someone out of a position they have not been reasoned into"
Al, K5TAN and Missy, N4RGO WBCCI 1322
2002 Classic 30 Slideout -S/OS #004
2013 Dodge 2500 Laramie 4x4 Megacab Cummins
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04-19-2018, 09:11 AM
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#7
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Rivet Master
2017 26' Flying Cloud
Tampa
, Florida
Join Date: Feb 2017
Posts: 7,653
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Interesting.
Not surprising.
I'd try one more washer.
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04-19-2018, 10:11 AM
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#8
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Rivet Master
2015 27' Flying Cloud
Portland
, Oregon
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 685
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I think you're missing some very important information. I often help people setting up the WD hitches. What is also important is the individual trailer axle weights. Too much difference between the trailer axles can cause instability when towing. It's important to look how all the axle weights are distributed when adjusting your WD system.
__________________
The ability to follow instructions is highly underrated.
Always be wary of stupid people in large numbers.
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04-19-2018, 02:48 PM
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#9
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Vintage Kin
Fort Worth
, Texas
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 8,014
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Ill assume you have the CAT Scale App
Method will help. Consistency.
Top off fuel tank at travel center arrival
First pass:
With WD engaged.
Second pass:
Simply loosen bars. Slack, not removal
Third pass
Drop trailer in designated parking spot. Cross scale solo
A fourth pass can be done for a split-axle weighing. Go to fuel desk first and be sure scalemaster knows procedure. (Manual at desk covers it)
Point here is to make no real changes between passes. All passengers aboard, etc.
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04-19-2018, 03:58 PM
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#10
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"Cloudsplitter"
2003 25' Classic
Houstatlantavegas
, Malebolgia
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 20,000
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hhendrix
I think you're missing some very important information. I often help people setting up the WD hitches. What is also important is the individual trailer axle weights. Too much difference between the trailer axles can cause instability when towing. It's important to look how all the axle weights are distributed when adjusting your WD system.
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Trailer axle weights or individual trailer wheel weights?
Bob
🇱🇷
__________________
I’m done with ‘adulting’…Let’s go find Bigfoot.
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04-19-2018, 10:23 PM
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#11
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Full Time Adventurer
2007 27' International CCD FB
Nomadic
, USA
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 2,748
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Quote:
Originally Posted by afk314
Truck - loaded for light camping with about 350 lbs of gear, 3/4 tank of gas. I was not present in the seat for any weights, wife not included either.
Trailer - close to camping weight - 70% propane, 100% fresh water, no food.
Pass #1 - TV only
FA: 3260
RA: 2820
Pass #2 - Trailer only
Tongue: 1060
Axels: 5280
Pass #3 - NO WD (bars no included in measurements)
FA: 2920
RA: 4020
Trailer: 5480
Pass #4 - WD engaged
FA: 3040
RA: 3880
Trailer: 5540
Airstream claims 886# for tongue as specd but I've dropped the LA batteries and would expect the tongue weight to be below original spec.
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My math from your numbers shows that when you hitch up and don't have WD applied, you have 858lbs of tongue actually sitting on the rear axle.
6940lbs truck - 6082lbs truck previously.
Quote:
Originally Posted by afk314
Am I right in concluding I need a little more WD - planning on adding another washer on the Equal-i-zer. Trailer attitude is good, slightly tongue down but going up again would not allow me to lower my truck bed door which would suck.
Any other thoughts? Thanks!
Adam
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I think you could adjust it. But your setup looked level to me from where I was standing but you might of been just a tad nose high.
Hi again.
You're setup is a lot lighter than mine, I'm a bit jealous.
But from my personal experience, you def do want more weight on the front. And you could shift some weight off that rear. You have close to 1060lbs on the rear and 220lbs light in the front.
I have a much heavier setup, but look at my spread.
I started (first photo) with a FA of 5060 and end (3rd photo) with a FA of 5320 so 260lbs extra up front. And a RA starting of 4000 (first photo) and ending with 4420lbs (3rd photo).
That's balanced, compared to no WD where I had 400lbs come off the front of the truck and nearly 1340lbs on the rear axle.
Personal opinion, open to debate here among others, but you certainly could dial that in better.
Good luck.
__________________
Family of 5 exploring the USA with a Ram Power Wagon & Airstream in tow.
OUR BLOG | INSTAGRAM
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04-19-2018, 10:23 PM
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#12
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Full Time Adventurer
2007 27' International CCD FB
Nomadic
, USA
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 2,748
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Quote:
Originally Posted by slowmover
Ill assume you have the CAT Scale App
Method will help. Consistency.
Top off fuel tank at travel center arrival
First pass:
With WD engaged.
Second pass:
Simply loosen bars. Slack, not removal
Third pass
Drop trailer in designated parking spot. Cross scale solo
A fourth pass can be done for a split-axle weighing. Go to fuel desk first and be sure scalemaster knows procedure. (Manual at desk covers it)
Point here is to make no real changes between passes. All passengers aboard, etc.
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I basically do it the same way, but in reverse.
__________________
Family of 5 exploring the USA with a Ram Power Wagon & Airstream in tow.
OUR BLOG | INSTAGRAM
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04-20-2018, 03:33 AM
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#13
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Rivet Master
2018 33' Classic
2015 30' FB FC Bunk
2012 30' Flying Cloud
Grand Rabbits
, Michigan
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 612
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BoldAdventure
I basically do it the same way, but in reverse.
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I didn’t know we were permitted to go through the CAT scales backwards?
__________________
Hibby
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04-20-2018, 04:26 AM
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#14
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Rivet Master
2018 27' Globetrotter
Apollo Beach
, Florida
Join Date: Feb 2017
Posts: 1,401
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"I basically do it the same way, but in reverse." - WOW Bold! You must be good to back onto a CAT scale!
Also interesting that Bold chooses to travel at over 100% FALR (Front Axle Load Restoration) as do I. Here is a link to my scale tickets and picture of my rig with 11 links of weight distribution on a Blue Ox hitch. http://www.airforums.com/forums/f42/...ml#post1985301 I always travel at 11 links, 80# over FALR on these scale tickets, to improve my rig's handling. I tested even more front axle weight by trying 1500# bars which completely ruined my rig's handling to the point that I had to abort my test drive to the CAT scale. So it is possible to go too far with front axle load restoration. I've found that adjusting a weight distribution hitch is a balancing act where the "sweet spot" is found through trial and error and then confirmed with weight scale tickets.
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2021 Northern-Lite 10-2 & F350 DRW PSD, 600W Solar/Victron/600A BattleBorn
146 nights 31,000 miles (first 10 months!)
Sold: 2018 GT27Q, 74 nights 12,777 miles
Sold: 2017 FC25FB, 316 nights 40,150 miles
Sold: 2013 Casita SD17 89 nights 16,200 miles
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04-20-2018, 07:35 AM
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#15
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Full Time Adventurer
2007 27' International CCD FB
Nomadic
, USA
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 2,748
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AirMiles
"I basically do it the same way, but in reverse." - WOW Bold! You must be good to back onto a CAT scale!
Also interesting that Bold chooses to travel at over 100% FALR (Front Axle Load Restoration) as do I. Here is a link to my scale tickets and picture of my rig with 11 links of weight distribution on a Blue Ox hitch. http://www.airforums.com/forums/f42/...ml#post1985301 I always travel at 11 links, 80# over FALR on these scale tickets, to improve my rig's handling. I tested even more front axle weight by trying 1500# bars which completely ruined my rig's handling to the point that I had to abort my test drive to the CAT scale. So it is possible to go too far with front axle load restoration. I've found that adjusting a weight distribution hitch is a balancing act where the "sweet spot" is found through trial and error and then confirmed with weight scale tickets.
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Good communication with the wife
I know some folks stick to 10% FALR. But it just feels more planted to me and overall stable when the truck is driving like it wasn't loaded or as close to it as possible.
Now, that can vary vehicle to vehicle. I have a very different setup from most. My axles aren't even stock anymore.
I probably adjusted the hitch about 7 times yesterday until it felt good towing to me. Finding the sweet spot for you is key.
If you're at least making the effort, you're way ahead of a lot of others out there on the road.
__________________
Family of 5 exploring the USA with a Ram Power Wagon & Airstream in tow.
OUR BLOG | INSTAGRAM
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04-20-2018, 10:29 AM
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#16
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Vintage Kin
Fort Worth
, Texas
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 8,014
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FALR (100%) is a starting point.
More, or less, is about degree of steering input + duration when tested.
TV tire pressure needs be nailed down first. No more than 5-7% pressure rise when REALLY close to value given by Load & Pressure Table (and always within vehicle manufacturers range). Stick with 100% and continue on down road until a couple of pressure values have been tried.
The tendency — with pickups — is to go too high on tires. To make up for TV suspension geometry deficiencies. Too high will come back to bite you. So long as pressure rise isn’t above spec, “low” values are what to learn with (keep TT tires at max until TV tire pressure sorted; take those out of equation).
One doesn’t “tune” TV steering with tire pressure. A rear anti-roll bar if not so equipped (and upsize front; must be done together); and/or a rear Panhard Rod (See Super Steer); these correct body roll and/or movement of the body against the suspension. (Cheap and cheap to install polyurethane roll bar bushings should be on everyone’s list; brand-new off the dealer lot).
Better than entry-level Koni or Bilstein shock absorbers. (Fox, King on pickups) is another aid.
Takes awhile for the trailer stern to come around. The tendency is to want that to happen “fast”. No, more a graduated thing. The sidewall flex on a pickup TV will be “best”, IMO, when the tire is at the correct pressure for the load.
What’s left in “feel” is about TV suspension. The trailer affects the TV frame, and body roll seems untoward. It’s not a TV tire pressure problem.
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04-20-2018, 10:33 AM
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#17
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Rivet Master
2015 27' Flying Cloud
Portland
, Oregon
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 685
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ROBERT CROSS
Trailer axle weights or individual trailer wheel weights?
Bob
🇱🇷
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Axle weights not individual wheels. Adjustments in the WD can really affect the weight on either axle of the trailer. You can literally shift weight with adjustments to balance the trailer axles.
__________________
The ability to follow instructions is highly underrated.
Always be wary of stupid people in large numbers.
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04-20-2018, 10:41 AM
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#18
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Vintage Kin
Fort Worth
, Texas
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 8,014
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hhendrix
Axle weights not individual wheels. Adjustments in the WD can really affect the weight on either axle of the trailer. You can literally shift weight with adjustments to balance the trailer axles.
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Why the CAT Scale procedure exists to find this. Have to do before and after WD applied. Won’t ever be exact, but discrepancies can be addressed.
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04-21-2018, 08:06 AM
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#19
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"Cloudsplitter"
2003 25' Classic
Houstatlantavegas
, Malebolgia
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 20,000
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hhendrix
Axle weights not individual wheels. Adjustments in the WD can really affect the weight on either axle of the trailer. You can literally shift weight with adjustments to balance the trailer axles.
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Thats the reason for level.
Good to have that differienciated ....too many folks worry too much about individual wheel weights, what to do if the street weighs more than the curb...move the fridge?.😏
Bob
🇱🇷
__________________
I’m done with ‘adulting’…Let’s go find Bigfoot.
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