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Old 03-25-2016, 12:10 PM   #15
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It never hurts to get a second opinion.

Load your trailer the way you like it, then go to a truck scale.

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Old 03-25-2016, 12:13 PM   #16
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Does Airstream include tongue weight on the sticker?
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Old 03-25-2016, 12:20 PM   #17
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Thiatt55 as mentioned above the trailer needs to be level. Needs to weighed at the ball. And using the information on the weight from the AS specs for your trailer. From the AS site a 25FC FB

Hitch Weight (w/LP & w/o options, water & cargo) (lbs.) 837

So nothing in the trailer, no water, no bedding. Just like it came from the factory. LP tanks full.

You don't mention where you placed the Sherline. They are very accurate but any changes to the process is an apples/oranges comparison.

And yes there are lots of variables. Best way is get to a CAT scale. Look up Ron Gratz on the forums. Lots of posts on how to weigh and interpret the results. Look up the spreadsheet I put together and posted several times under my user name and you can plug in the results from Ron's method of weighing and get some real world weights.
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Old 03-25-2016, 12:34 PM   #18
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Originally Posted by Thiatt55 View Post
Sales people at the AS dealerships don't seem interested in talking about or knowledgeable on this subject.

The scale seems like a quality item with great reviews at Etrailer.com.


Attachment 259311

Love some feedback on posted tongue weights by Airstream.
We purchased our 2015 23FB because the listed tongue weight was well under the allowable 720 lbs of our TV even though we preferred the 23D with a listed tongue weight right at 720 lbs. The sales rep at AS insisted our vehicle would tow the 23D just fine, but we held firm in the interests of safety.

We then bought that exact same scale as you and found that we we able to remain safely below our 720 lb. tongue weight limit even after filling tanks and adding the WD hitch (which does add to your tongue weight). We then confirmed the weights and distribution on a CAT scale.

That was only the beginning of our (thus far) year-long effort to learn all we can learn about our AS, equipment, hitching/towing, trouble shooting and maintenance. There are far more opinions out there than facts. Ultimately we must each take time to learn all we can learn, sift through the misinformation and varying opinions, make reasonable judgements, and act in responsible ways. Used thoughtfully, this forum is an incredible resource. I value it greatly and use it frequently, though never unquestionably.
Safe travels,
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Old 03-25-2016, 12:47 PM   #19
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Be careful putting heavy stuff in the rear of the trailer to try to reduce tongue weight. Going tail heavy can make the trailer unstable. There are youtube videos of trailer sway, and probably the biggest cause of it is too far aft a CG on the trailer. That 10-15% of the trailer's weight on the tongue rule of thumb is really you want the CG of the trailer to be 10-15% ahead of the centerline of the axle(s). Nose heavy = stable. Tail heavy = unstable.

Now in all honesty, you'd have to put your blacksmith tools or similar in the back to make that much difference, but it's worth knowing about
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Old 03-25-2016, 01:06 PM   #20
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Good post Jim. Airstream Owners Manual warns of heavy rear and front loads. Heavy loads at the ends can amplify sway conditions if they start. Put the heavy stuff over/near the Airstream axles. No less than 10% of actual total trailer weight on the tongue.
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Old 03-25-2016, 01:08 PM   #21
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Sure you can trust them, trust them to be heavy. :-) But then that is part of the reason they tow so well.
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Old 03-25-2016, 01:14 PM   #22
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At the dealership, our new 2013 25FB International Serenity with full water and propane tanks, dealer installed street and rear awnings, dealer installed 155 watt solar system and the Hensley Arrow hitch installed had a Sherline scale tongue weight of 1,150 pounds. Loaded for camping and moving our stuff around for best weight distribution, the best we could do was 1,175 pounds by the Sherline scales.

Those numbers were very close to the CAT scale numbers as well.

The 773 pound Airstream literature tongue weight morphed to 1,350 pounds with four Lifeline 92 pound batteries (configured as 600 amp-hours) on the tongue. When those were removed along with the custom stainless steel enclosure and a 600 amp-hour lithium was mounted inside the Classic, the tongue weight dropped to 1,175 pounds.
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Old 03-25-2016, 02:09 PM   #23
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All trailers are weighed once they come off the line and those weights are printed out on the stickers that are attached. They will vary based on options and model decor but are weighed on computer scales.
They just checkweigh the traiers to make sure there's nothing in there that wasn't paid for.
Like an extra vent fan or mechanic's tools.
Or a QC inspector that fell asleep in the closet.
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Old 03-25-2016, 02:57 PM   #24
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dkottum is right in Post #9. But, it really is a science if you compare it to aircraft weight and balance. It all boils down to the [weight (mass) X arm (length) = moment (torque)] being ahead of the center of gravity (CG) far enough to make the aircraft (trailer) stable so it can handle the operator induced or environmental upsets and return or remain dynamically stable, i.e., not sway (yaw, pitch, or roll about it's longitudinal axis. A horizontal line through the CG going from rear to front. If it goes divergent, think jack knife or roll over. Just ask my FedEx pilot son what would happen to a Boing 777 freighter if the loading crew forget to lock down the shipping containers. There is a fine line of balance between not enough, just right, and too much tongue weight. Just right and the trailer "feels" perfect at all speeds. The same with aircraft, but computers now allow aircraft to fly way out of normal hand flying range. The same hold true for computer sway controls and trapezoid designed hitches on travel trailers. They make handling instability easier and/or possible.
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Old 03-25-2016, 03:26 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Schu View Post
All trailers are weighed once they come off the line and those weights are printed out on the stickers that are attached. They will vary based on options and model decor but are weighed on computer scales.

As in Schu's news? 😀. Good to see you here!

Can you describe how they're weighed for what I believe you call "hitch weight"? In other words, I'm assuming a level trailer but "hitch" could mean you measure at the ball or at the jack foot or somewhere else? Thank you!
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Old 03-26-2016, 10:15 AM   #26
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Tongue Weight Discussion

I have been concerned about tongue weight on my 25 ft, RB, for some time. I performed the measurement using the bathroom scales and some lumber, and calculated 1050 lbs. I discussed this with the dealer and he was not concerned. I believe the only detrimental effect is extra wear on the TV rear tires, even though I run about 5 psi extra pressure. I also added a bike rack (with bikes) to the rear of the AS. When we are under way, I do not store anything heavy in the front of the AS. From all of this discussion, it would appear that Airstream should direct a little more attention to the issue and provide some parameters. At some point, one has overloaded the AS bow, the hitch, and/or the TV stern.

Before my Airstream I owned a 17 ft. Casita. I added a storage box to the rear (against manufacturers' recommendations), then had to carry several cinder blocks in the front when under way to counterbalance the load and prevent fishtailing. Well, this finally caught up with me and I had one of the tires blowout while traveling down the interstate. In hindsight, I had simply overloaded the tires. Thank goodness this did not happen in the middle of Yellowstone Park, which is where we had been. The moral to this story is to know your weights, measure them at a CAT scales, calculate those you cannot measure directly, and have everything within appropriate limits. I do this, and am comfortable with all the weights, even the slightly heavy tongue weight FOR MY SITUATION. We use our rig a lot (did a round trip to Nova Scotia - 6000 miles recently and before that Utah parks and Grand Canyon, etc.) and I watch tire wear carefully plus other maintenance. Get educated on your own particular situation, if not already, and enjoy your trips.
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Old 03-26-2016, 10:25 AM   #27
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Note that the weight data tag created by Airstream only lists the total empty weight at the time it rolled off the assembly line and was towed the 150 feet to the right bay of the shed to the scales. The tractor drops the connection and pulls away, the trailer is weighed and then it is towed out to storage. Then they take that scale generated number and subtract it from the published GVW for that unit to generate the allowable payload number.

At no time do they "verify" by scale the literature tongue weight versus the actual tongue weight and supply that information to the consumer.

That is a key piece of information to serve as the starting point for tow vehicle selection based upon the tow vehicle listed payload. Once loaded for camping with all the stuff aboard and full tanks, a trip across the CAT scales will confirm whether the actual tongue weight is within bounds for the tow vehicle.
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Old 03-26-2016, 10:43 AM   #28
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Question Ok....

.......I'll throw my monkey wench into the fray now.


2003 25' foot Classic.

GVWR 7300lbs. CCC a meager 676lbs


On a trailer equipped with two 3500lb axles.

...and you wonder why I....

....for storage.
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