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Old 01-27-2016, 11:43 AM   #43
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2017 Audi Q7 apparently has a bumped up tow rating of 7700#. I am not sure whether the use of WDH is allowed on the new Q7 or not. My personal preference is to stay away from brand new cars, and wait for a couple of years for the glitches to be fixed.
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Old 01-27-2016, 12:06 PM   #44
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2017 Audi Q7 apparently has a bumped up tow rating of 7700#. I am not sure whether the use of WDH is allowed on the new Q7 or not. My personal preference is to stay away from brand new cars, and wait for a couple of years for the glitches to be fixed.
The 2016/17 Cayenne/Tauoreg/Audi Q7 is more of a mid-cycle model refresh, than a new model - but I agree with that theory for new models & cars.

I wasn't aware that they'd bumped the newer Q7 back up to 7700#, as the other mid-2000's Q7s that we'd looked at were at 6800-7200-ish if I recall. To be clear, we went towards Cayenne cuz we don't need the the extra seats & prefer the shorter length for our driveway & street situation & our driving preferences - not due to losing a small amount of towing capacity.

As for WD....

WD is illegal in Europe since the 1970s - ergo they won't rate them as such for Euro/some-RoW production. Therefore, the Euro trailers are generally built much lighter wt. than their USA/NA counterparts - including Airstream. IMHO it's shortsighted & plain stupid rules for Europe!

However, VW/Audi/Porsche do have WD ratings for the T/C/Q7 in at least some of the years for USA/NA cars, but they make it very hard to find the WD/non-WD numbers by burying them in the dealers shop manuals & other odd places, & most dealers are too lazy to look them up & just say no - incorrectly. WD can be used on any of the 3, & apparently they don't bother to change the owners manual from the Euro "no WD" version on some/all of their model years/SUVs.

Again, unnecessary confusion & stupidity on the part of the mfgrs. trying to comply with their home Euro market - which is generally smaller than their equal or greater sales in North America where WD is allowed. If pressed, they'll say that WD is not disallowed at least, if not that it is allowed - because they don't want to lose those sales in USA/NA, where it is actually a safety factor when towing, causing less - not more strain on the vehicles drivetrains, brakes, suspension, etc.

That said, I'd contact Andy T. at CanAm up in Ontario Canada for input on what reinforcement should be done to the hitch/reciever on ANY & ALL of the Euro & USA Big 3 mid-sized SUVs & smaller car/SUV/CUV TVs, based on what trailer you'll be towing - including Q7/Treg/Cay. He can advise what to do for those too far away to take it into their shop, for a local shop to do it.

Cheers!
Tom
///////
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Old 01-27-2016, 12:41 PM   #45
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Originally Posted by Tom_T View Post
The 2016/17 Cayenne/Tauoreg/Audi Q7 is more of a mid-cycle model refresh, than a new model - but I agree with that theory for new models & cars.

I wasn't aware that they'd bumped the newer Q7 back up to 7700#, as the other mid-2000's Q7s that we'd looked at were at 6800-7200-ish if I recall. To be clear, we went towards Cayenne cuz we don't need the the extra seats & prefer the shorter length for our driveway & street situation & our driving preferences - not due to losing a small amount of towing capacity.

As for WD....

WD is illegal in Europe since the 1970s - ergo they won't rate them as such for Euro/some-RoW production. Therefore, the Euro trailers are generally built much lighter wt. than their USA/NA counterparts - including Airstream. IMHO it's shortsighted & plain stupid rules for Europe!

However, VW/Audi/Porsche do have WD ratings for the T/C/Q7 in at least some of the years for USA/NA cars, but they make it very hard to find the WD/non-WD numbers by burying them in the dealers shop manuals & other odd places, & most dealers are too lazy to look them up & just say no - incorrectly. WD can be used on any of the 3, & apparently they don't bother to change the owners manual from the Euro "no WD" version on some/all of their model years/SUVs.

Again, unnecessary confusion & stupidity on the part of the mfgrs. trying to comply with their home Euro market - which is generally smaller than their equal or greater sales in North America where WD is allowed. If pressed, they'll say that WD is not disallowed at least, if not that it is allowed - because they don't want to lose those sales in USA/NA, where it is actually a safety factor when towing, causing less - not more strain on the vehicles drivetrains, brakes, suspension, etc.

That said, I'd contact Andy T. at CanAm up in Ontario Canada for input on what reinforcement should be done to the hitch/reciever on ANY & ALL of the Euro & USA Big 3 mid-sized SUVs & smaller car/SUV/CUV TVs, based on what trailer you'll be towing - including Q7/Treg/Cay. He can advise what to do for those too far away to take it into their shop, for a local shop to do it.

Cheers!
Tom
///////
2017 Q7 is a brand new car -- its not a mid cycle refresh.

As for WDH on Touareg/Q7/Cayenne: I believe they used to be explicitly supported. A few years back, VW advised against using them. What I read in a car forum (for what its worth) was that VW saw signs of fatigue where the hitch is attached to the unibody, and advised against using WDHs.
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Old 01-27-2016, 01:45 PM   #46
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Originally Posted by rostam View Post
2017 Q7 is a brand new car -- its not a mid cycle refresh.

As for WDH on Touareg/Q7/Cayenne: I believe they used to be explicitly supported. A few years back, VW advised against using them. What I read in a car forum (for what its worth) was that VW saw signs of fatigue where the hitch is attached to the unibody, and advised against using WDHs.
Interesting! Of course taking the WD option away rather than fixing the hitch/mounting point option seems to fall into VW's mentality - just like their TDI "smog fix" cheater program!

I think it's still in the Porsche Cayenne owners &/or factory/dealer service manual info. for WD hitch use/ratings (may be the same wt. with or without WD - or a lower than the 700 or 770 lbs. HW depending on MY without WD), & maybe on Audi Q7's too.

I thought the weakness was at the crossbar welds to the mounting plates, according to both the forums & Andy T./CanAm/Hitch Hints info., but then that just supports the reason to do the latter's hitch reinforcement. So apparently a couple of theories are running around out there.

I love my Hensley Cub, so I'll reinforce as Andy T./CanAm advises, whenever we finally get our Cayenne S TV.

Cheers!
Tom
///////
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Old 01-27-2016, 02:30 PM   #47
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Trying to get hitch reinforcement in the Bay Area is next to impossible!
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Old 01-27-2016, 03:42 PM   #48
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It is possible. I have done this on BMW X5

http://www.airforums.com/forums/f463...ml#post1707559

Check Midnight Automotive in Redwood City. I had this address from another user of AS who had PC hitch reinforced.
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Old 01-27-2016, 03:43 PM   #49
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Originally Posted by cactusjk View Post
Trying to get hitch reinforcement in the Bay Area is next to impossible!
Check at that link I put a couple of posts above for the Tauoreg/Cayenne/Q7 topic, as there was someone from the Bay Area who got it done locally, & they can refer you to the shop they used.

If it's not there, then PM or email me, & I'll look at my other saved T/C/Q7 topics to see which one has it.

Good Luck!
Tom
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Old 01-27-2016, 03:47 PM   #50
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Originally Posted by bono View Post
It is possible. I have done this on BMW X5

http://www.airforums.com/forums/f463...ml#post1707559

Check Midnight Automotive in Redwood City. I had this address from another user of AS who had PC hitch reinforced.
Well there ya go! I'm pretty sure that Bono was the person I was recalling!

BTW - All of the BMW, MBZ, VW/Audi/Porsche factory hitches are similar & made by the same hitch mfgrs. - Westfalia, Oris & maybe one other - so the fix is the same or similar to his X5.

Thanx Bono for chiming in as I was typing!

Tom
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Old 01-27-2016, 04:20 PM   #51
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Great info! Many thanks!
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Old 01-27-2016, 04:22 PM   #52
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Well there ya go! I'm pretty sure that Bono was the person I was recalling!

BTW - All of the BMW, MBZ, VW/Audi/Porsche factory hitches are similar & made by the same hitch mfgrs. - Westfalia, Oris & maybe one other - so the fix is the same or similar to his X5.

Thanx Bono for chiming in as I was typing!

Tom
///////
Mercedes hitch is different in that the hitch is not just connected to the unibody with 8 bolts. On top of the 8 bolts, there are also 2 large support arms (each may be 2 ft long) that are bolted to the hitch, go into a recess in uni-body and get bolted to the unibody. Hence, The hitch unibody connection is very stout. Mercedes manual, unlike other German SUVs, does not ban the use of WDHs. In my opinion, this is due to this different design. I am attaching a photo of a GL hitch, where the support arms are highlighted.
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Old 01-27-2016, 06:41 PM   #53
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-- snip -- All of the BMW, MBZ, VW/Audi/Porsche factory hitches are similar --- snip ---///////
Caution, the aftermarket hitches for the late model F15 BMW X5 are similar to what is used on other German SUVs, but the OEM hitch is not. It can not be installed with a Class III receiver and is only available with a 2 in ball.

Bono, thanks for your info. Is the trailer home?

Rostam - that is a nice hitch design. Gives Mercedes some extra points in the TV choice comparison.

Pat
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Old 01-27-2016, 10:39 PM   #54
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Just to clarify, if you retrofit GL with OE hitch, are these 2 large support arms part of the hitch retrofit kit?

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Mercedes hitch is different in that the hitch is not just connected to the unibody with 8 bolts. On top of the 8 bolts, there are also 2 large support arms (each may be 2 ft long) that are bolted to the hitch, go into a recess in uni-body and get bolted to the unibody. Hence, The hitch unibody connection is very stout. Mercedes manual, unlike other German SUVs, does not ban the use of WDHs. In my opinion, this is due to this different design. I am attaching a photo of a GL hitch, where the support arms are highlighted.
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Old 01-27-2016, 10:44 PM   #55
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Not yet. Will start camping around September when the newborn will be around 4 months old. Really can't wait to start towing the trailer...

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Bono, thanks for your info. Is the trailer home?
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Old 01-28-2016, 07:29 AM   #56
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Just to clarify, if you retrofit GL with OE hitch, are these 2 large support arms part of the hitch retrofit kit?
The 2 support arms are part of the OEM hitch kit. Note that buying/installing a hitch and the associated electronics could cost around $2k (if you are retrofitting it). The factory tow package option is a steal at $550.
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