Brand new VW Touareg and a 23D

[AWCHIEF]

Boo, double post, on purpose?

[LiaG]

Thank You all for great advice. I'm driving to New Jersey in 3 weeks to pick up my trailer. They are offering me an Equalizer with 1000 lbs sway bars for $900 and a Prodigy wireless brake controller for $600.

I will definitely post pictures when I get there. Excited and nervous.

[bono]

Did you post this by mistake? I do not see any connection with this thread.

Originally Posted by tjdonahoe

Near Arroyo Grande, Calif, an almost new Tahoe and almost new airstream rolled over and flattened the two air conditioners were flattened and one side looked caved in 2-3 inches, I will bet that hurt...

[Tom_T]

"ajnz
Although there are many who run Touregs with weight distributing (WD) hitches, Volkswagen states they are not to be used with the Toureg. I discovered this when researching a new tow vehicle and it was confirmed during a visit to the dealer. Chances are running a WD hitch with a Toureg won't be a safety issue but could cause problems in the event of a warranty or insurance claim"

"Harv
Our 2012 TDi Touraeg shows limits (they are the same) with and without a WD hitch.

Volkswagen, go figure.

John"

I think that the Taureg/Cayenne/Q7 confusion is due to the fact that in Europe WD hitches are illegal since the 1960's or 70's - so they build their trailers smaller & lighter (including Euro AS), so they say no WD on their Euro &/or RoW (Rest of World) documentation.

However, it is legal in the USA & Canada (& elsewhere), so VW, Porsche & Audi sometimes corrects their verbiage in the owners' manuals & sometimes not, & that seems to vary from model year to year too. Then some dealers & their employees are likewise confused & pass along incorrect info. (who in my experience are generally too lazy to check on details, don't know how/where, &/or get the wrong info & pass it along as correct).

If the same platform in 3 different skins - with some difference in engines, transmissions, brakes & suspension, etc. between the makes & their sub-models - and essentially the same hitch on all 3 makes regardless of the other details can be used with WD in some years/makes/models - then it certainly can be on others, & shouldn't be a problem insurance nor warranty wise.

As some above have noted & others on the various other topic posts on the Euro-3 have noted, they can & do tow with WD & is usually accepted as approved - except for a dealer trying to CYA or wiggle out of something. I've read somewhere in AirForums or on the RennList Cayenne forum that somebody checked with the North American branch of VW &/or Porsche, who said that it is fine to use WD hitches.

So those 3 makers need to get their acts together & their docs straightened out to stop all of this confusion, because the misinformation could cause someone who should be using WD/Anti-sway to not & then have a serious accident, & then make a serious legal claim against them for all the misinformation!

However, I would NOT & never again try towing our single axle Avion with a short wheelbase mid-sized SUV without a WD/Anti-sway hitch for another white knuckle ride! Did it once with the rented Pathfinder & that was plenty for us - it's just way to squirrely over 50-55 & in cross winds without something! Nary a problem since the Hensley Cub was installed (the bigger rented F150 pick-ups had their own built-in anti-sway tow package to solve that problem in our pre-Cub days).

That said, it's worthwhile to read up &/or contact the folks at CanAm for possible hitch reinforcement if you're towing at the upper limits of the hitch rating.

I checked with Andy T & he said that our `60 Avion T20 at about 3000-3500 lbs wet & loaded wouldn't need the reinforcement, but each trailer is different (that info is at the Treg/Cay/Q7 link I provided in my prior post above).

I'll have to check on the Tekonsha Prodigy RF pairing issue on the T/C/Q trio as noted above whenever we finally get our own Cayenne S (soon we hope), but I never had any problems pairing it with the other rented TVs, & it actually did not requiring pairing when we rented the same type vehicle the next time, the RF remembering all the settings & paring issues as if it were the same truck or Pathfinder.

Cheers!
Tom
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[LiaG]

My Touareg is rated to tow 7700 lbs. My 23D weighs 4760 dry. I don't think that I will ever have it over 6000 lbs. I will certainly get weight when I am all packed for travel next spring.

[LiaG]

Did you post this by mistake? I do not see any connection with this thread.

He is just trying to scare the new girl on the block.

[ROBERT CROSS]

Originally Posted by rocco52

I can save you a lot of time looking for answers. I have a 2015 Q7 TDI that I tow a 25FB with. The Q7, Touareg, and Cayenne are all built on the same platform and have the same engine and factory tow hitch. The listed limits on mine are 662 Weight carrying and 662 Weight Distributing. The listed tongue weight with 2 30lb propane bottles and the spare tire is 720Lbs on your 23D. Remove one of the propane bottles and replace with a piece of 4" ABS pipe. I have been using one tank all summer and it is still half full. That will drop the tongue weight by 52 lbs. Remove the spare tire and put it in the back of the Touareg. That drops another 48 lbs. You are now down to 620lb tongue weight. Figure on adding 500lbs of gear and 10 gallons of water for travel and you will be below the 662lb limit. Buy a Tekonsha Primus brake controller and take it and your VW to the dealer. The factory wiring plug is located under the steering column wrapped in a foam like tape. I can send them the Technical Service Bulletin if they can't find it. You don't want anyone hacking into the wires that doesn't know anything about your car. Take it to the dealer. Go to Etrailer.com and buy an adapter for the LED trailer lights, about $25. For some reason the European cars don't recognize LED trailer lights, not enough resistance. I purchased a Blue Ox 1000 WD and had the Airstream dealer install and adjust it. They charged me $125. It all works perfectly! 18MPG on my last trip.

What folks won't go thru for a little mpg....no thanks. Not our priority.



Bob

[Tom_T]

And the big truck folks start in ... as always!

Lia, I forgot to mention in my reply to your PM to look at etrailer.com & other suppliers for a better price on the Tekonsha controller & hitch - those seem a bit high - esp. to controller.

Cheers!
Tom
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[ROBERT CROSS]

Originally Posted by Tom_T

And the big truck folks start in ... as always!
Cheers!
Tom
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Tom,

I'm so very sorry if a Suburban offends you I just appreciate/need the room & love to fish.

Safe Streams...

Cheers!
Bob

[Tom_T]

Originally Posted by ROBERT CROSS

Tom,

I'm so very sorry if a Suburban offends you I just appreciate/need the room & love to fish.

Safe Streams...

Cheers!
Bob

Robert,

I have nothing at all against Suburbans & one of my uncles had one in the early 1960s that was a great & very versatile vehicle that we kids loved to ride in.

I just do not see the point of you nor anyone else hijacking another person's topic where they proudly announce their new TV & AS with a negative comment like that!?

I mean really, why put such a downer comment about not your style!?

I just seems like the folks with the bigger suv & truck TVs just have to chime in with negative BS on every post & topic about smaller TVs on here!

You modern day Airstreamers seem to forget that one of the major selling points of Wally Byam & his kin contemporaries was that their smaller trailers could be towed by the average family car or station wagon without the need for a big ole truck.

And still today many of us don't have the room nor need for a bigger TV like yours - mpg aside, so we get what fits our needs & desires as both a TV & DD, just as folks did in the pre-1980's big truck boom times.

Perhaps a better post would've been to commend Lia the OP on keeping that tradition alive instead?

And so why snap back when you're called on being negative about it?

Probably the same goes for the rolled Tahoe/AS guy earlier.

Chime in if, when & where someone asks for input on that type of TV/Rig, but not on completely off topic stuff like you did here. That is common courtesy.

The main thing Robert is to enjoy your rig - both the TV & the TT - & leave it at that.

Cheers!
Tom
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[LiaG]

Boys, boys, Please don't fight. For a couple of reasons my Touareg is the only vehicle I own. I don't have the luxury of owning a tow vehicle and an everyday vehicle. So my choice was right for me but everyone's situation and personal choice is different.

I LOVE my Touareg so far, 300 miles on it. I am a little concerned with the newer Airstreams being heavier than their older brothers from the years past. I will cross that bridge when I get there. I actually want to weigh my trailer to see what the tongue weight is and not go by Airstream's numbers. Then I will decide, Can-Am OR NOT Can-Am.

[Tom_T]

Originally Posted by LiaG

Boys, boys, Please don't fight. For a couple of reasons my Touareg is the only vehicle I own. I don't have the luxury of owning a tow vehicle and an everyday vehicle. So my choice was right for me but everyone's situation and personal choice is different.

I LOVE my Touareg so far, 300 miles on it. I am a little concerned with the newer Airstreams being heavier than their older brothers from the years past. I will cross that bridge when I get there. I actually want to weigh my trailer to see what the tongue weight is and not go by Airstream's numbers. Then I will decide, Can-Am OR NOT Can-Am.

Lia, Not to worry!

Most of us are choosing these mid-size SUVs in TDI or gas, V6 or V8 or V10 flavors for the same reasons, where size, daily use, etc. are the overriding factors. So we understand your choice.

There are many others towing larger AS's with Tauregs, Cayennes & Audi Q7s in both the gas & TDI flavors - so you should be fine, even if they're heavier than the old days.

Here is a link to Andy T's "Hitch Hints' articles, & the one in #41-7 is about towing a 27 or 30' AS with the Cayenne TDI, which has a few more HP/TQ than the Taureg/Q7 TDIs, but is a good comparison for your Treg-TDI+23D.

Can-Am RV :: Hitch Hints
RV Lifestyle - Vol. 41 No. 7

Given a larger & heavier vehicle with the same HP & torque - gas or diesel - the lighter vehicle will have more power per lb. (HP & TQ), so all you are losing is the stowage space of the larger SUVs, which may not be able to be fully utilized without uprating the engines of the full size suv/pick=up since the gross wt. limits are what govern it al.

You'll need to borrow or buy a Sherline tongue wt. scale to get your AS tonge or hitch wt., which is usually more than the factory docs specify for the minimal & dry/unloaded condition. Truck & CAT scales etc. are where you'll get the other TV, TT & axles wts.

There are good topics in here on both subjects if you do a search for the "how to's" topics within this towing & hitches section.

And no fighting involved, just trying to have folks stay on your & other original posters' topic - you had asked for help & advice on hitches & brake controllers & towing with a Taureg.

The person above chose to make a negative comment, got called on it, & didn't like that he was. End of story & hopefully his future posts will be helpful instead.

Cheers!
Tom
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[Tom_T]

Ooops .... I forgot to include this link before ...

Good Taureg specific info about towing can also be found here:

Off-Roading & Towing - Club Touareg Forums

Other Treg owners may have additional Treg specific forums for you too.



Tom
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[PNWAirstream]

I just bought the same set up.. except my AS is a 2013. I use a blue ox sway pro weight distribution hitch and it works great! I use the Tekonsha RF brake controller. I have not been able to get the controller to pair up but it still sends signal to the trailer and the brakes and lights all work fine.

[cactusjk]

We would love to get a Touareg TDI but that is not happening anytime soon. Can a 2016 3.6L V6 adequately tow a FC 23D?

[Tom_T]

Originally Posted by cactusjk

We would love to get a Touareg TDI but that is not happening anytime soon. Can a 2016 3.6L V6 adequately tow a FC 23D?

To answer your question - all Tregs are rated the same towing capacities & hitch wts. - whether V6 or V8 gas, or V6 TDI or even the mid-2000's V10 TDI. The same holds true for the Cayenne & Audi Q7 cousins. The one exception seems to be on the V6-Hybrid models, which are down-rated somewhat in towing capacity, & the Q7 is a tad less than its Treg/Cayenne cousins due to the extra vehicle wt. from it's extra foot or so of length & 3rd row seating.

So if the 23's Trailer-GVRW & hitch wt. are within the vehicle's specs, then it will work, but the gas V6 will work harder & get less mpg while towing. If you use it a lot for DD duties as well, then you'll save a paltry 1-2 mpg over a V8 gasser in unhitched city/hwy duties. But it's not that much mpg to sway a decision if either are in your budget & towing is in the mix. There was another member with a thread on whether a Cayenne would tow his 23 AS (not sure which) & the answer was yes, as well as longer/heavier ones, so you should be okay (searhc for all 3 cousins in the TV threads).

However, if buying a new 2016 Treg base model is in your budget, then there is also the option of getting a 1-5+/- year old model with a factory CPO warranty in either V8 or TDI. You'll save yourself the pleasure of losing 20-25% of your investment the moment you drive off the dealer's lot, but still have a relatively new SUV with the engine you really want, for the same or less cost than a new V6. I don't know the VW CPO warranty specifics, but the Porsche & Audi ones come up slightly better.

I don't know what VW is offering for CPOs, but Porsche's that I looked at will take a 1-4 year old Porsche vehicle still under warranty & extend it to 10 yrs./100,000 miles - which can be better than the original 48/50k new car warranty, if it's less than the 48/50k on the car/suv. Otherwise, their CPO just addss 2 yrs. up to 100k miles to whatever the current is, & it can be added on up to 8 year old cars (all Porsche CPOs are still capped at 10 years or 100,000 miles). Audi's CPO is almost as good according to Edmunds comparisons, but I didn't look at VW's CPO (we're looking for a used Cayenne S V8). The CPO vehicles usually sell for a bit more than non-CPO ones.

If you're looking at a diesel, then be aware that VW's V6 TDI in all 3 makes is still under scrutiny for the smog cheating programming, but at least those engines have the "magic juice" & hardware which the 4 cyl/ TDI's lack, so it will be a programming fix according to the 3 makers (I think Porsche changed to their own TDI for `16). From what I've read, the V6 TDI program in question has to do with cold running profiles, than an outright know when you're hooked-up to a smog test & run different to pass type program used in the 4 cyl. TDIs without the juice & hardware.

From Treg & Cayenne TDI owners I know - VW offered little compensation, but Porsche extended the warranties on TDIs not already covered out to 10/100k as part of their "compensation" (one owner on here brought that out on another thread). So with Porsche you may get a "free" 10/100k CPO on a 2013-15 TDI for either used or new/on-lot Cayenne.

I initially looked at Tregs & Cayennes in V8 flavor (don't need/want the longer 3-row Q7), but found it more difficult to find low mile (<40-60k) Tregs, than Cayennes - ditto on well kept ones with all maintenance done & records. So my choice was to look for 08-10 & maybe 11-12 Cayenne S gas V8 models to best fit our needs, & what I'm willing to pay for an "extra car" to used towing our vintage kin Avion T20 to a few vintage trailer events a year, & otherwise mostly sit home.

Pick what meets your use & needs profile, but at least consider a nice & well kept & low mile one as a good alternative to new.

Good Luck!
Tom
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[cactusjk]

Great recommendations. To be honest we are now torn between a Lexus GX 460 and the Touareg 3.7L V6.

[Tom_T]

Originally Posted by cactusjk

Great recommendations. To be honest we are now torn between a Lexus GX 460 and the Touareg 3.7L V6.

The Lexus/Toyota lines are excellent SUVs, but they are on truck frames if I recall, & they ride a bit harsher - which is important on long trips. So test drive them both on streets & freeways - including on some rough pavement first - then decide which vehicle(s) size, interior fitment & options, ride & power profile you like.

I'm not sure - but I thought the GX460 was a V8 - so then compare with V8s for power, & I'd bet the Lexus prices are the same or higher than all 3 SUVs from Audi, VW & Porsche Cayenne - both new & used.

However, I think the GX460 has a lower tow rating than the Treg/Cay 7716 lbs rating & 700 hitch wt., so you'd need to cross-check the Lexus specs.

And if you do look at used, consider the Cayenne S or TDI option as well, since the premium/luxury price difference between them & Tregs closes up fast once they're into the used "pre-owned" market, so you won't pay much if anything more for a Cayenne, & IMHO & that of many Treg & Cayenne owners whom I know, the Porsche quality control is better than VWs on Tregs.

In a pinch on the road, an Audi or VW dealer or independent can work on a Cayenne as well. The Toyota/Lexus option likewise at either dealership or independent.

Cheers!
Tom
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[cactusjk]

Thanks! Surprisingly we can get a better deal on the Lexus. We are replacing our 07 GX470 and have really enjoyed that ride!

[interstateflyer]

The OP Lia lives in Florida. Her Touareg TDI should do just fine with the 23D on those flat lands. Here in the West where much of our time is spent in the mountains, you can't beat the handling characteristics of a full size pickup. My RAM 2500 diesel might seem like overkill power-wise for my 23D, but it's handling and exhaust braking instill confidence on mountain passes in all kinds of conditions.