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Old 04-17-2017, 10:17 AM   #71
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You can "research" all day and it's all anecdotal. There's no real statistics kept for any hitch and there's too many variables. "I saw a trailer overturned and he had a "brand X" hitch." Okay, but maybe he fell asleep or got T-boned by a semi?

I put hitch advice into three categories.
1. If all your tools are Snap-On because nothing else is good enough, get the ProPride.
2. If you have a mix of Craftsman and Stanley tools because you can't tell the difference with the "brand" names, get a Equilizer.
3. If the names have rusted off the tools you found at a garage sale, get the Blue Ox.

Now, that's a scientific fact!
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Old 04-17-2017, 10:49 AM   #72
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Has the OP been here for a while? Probably not - and a good thing. I don't know why these threads take on a religious wars attitude so often.

It should be fairly simple. Make your recommendation and end it. The arguments are just getting ridiculous. The OP - or anyone - should know WHAT problem they want to solve and then decide WHICH hitch does that the best for their budget.

If it's true that having the pivot point closer to your rear axle is ideal to prevent sway, then you have some choices for that if your goal is to prevent away. You could forgo AS and get a 5th wheel. For some years of trucks, you could find a PullRite hitch which has the pivot point physically at the rear axle of the tow vehicle. Or you could buy a virtual projection hitch designed by Hensley and made by 2 different companies.

If your goal is to effectively react to sway signals, you have many more choices by a ton of top brands all with good reports from satisfied users.

There are devices that distribute weight, address sway, or sometimes a combination of the two. Know WHY you want WHAT you want, assess your budget and act accordingly.

Beyond that, it's a bit like being at recess in third grade any time this hitch discussions get going....
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Old 04-17-2017, 12:35 PM   #73
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If it's true that having the pivot point closer to your rear axle is ideal to prevent sway, then you have some choices for that if your goal is to prevent sway.
If we first start off agreeing that any trailer, with any hitch, has the ability to move back and forth behind the tow vehicle, then we can get to the discussion about what happens when it does. I don't think that your phrase "If it's true..." is fair. It ignores what is happening from an engineering perspective. It suggests some sort of equivalence to the two positions, ie either could be true.

With a bumper pull hitch, the back and forth trailer motions have a lever arm to work on, from the TV rear tires (which resist lateral motion) to the hitch ball itself. All a 5th wheel does is apply those back and forth motions at the place most able to resist them, the rear tires. That is all that a 3P hitch does, as well. And without that lever arm, those forces won't impact the steering of the tow vehicle.

Hitches don't prevent sway, per se; some are better able to manage the forces without setting up the sort of extreme oscillations that spell disaster. Trailer goes right, lever arm pushes right as a result, car yaws left as a result, driver corrects right to try and stop it, and away it goes. I think that when some say that a 3P hitch prevents sway, they mean that the design greatly reduces the risk of that oscillation increasing to where it becomes disastrous.

Saying that one has a trailer with a standard WDH that doesn't sway isn't surprising. It isn't proof that the hitch design is better. It is like a life long smoker saying they haven't got cancer, so they can smoke all they want. Sure they can, they are just moving the risk profile. If one doesn't want to have the chance of getting a disease from smoking, don't smoke. If one doesn't want to use a 3P hitch or a 5th wheel, don't. Accept that if your trailer sways, it can set up an oscillation with your vehicle that may be inherently damped out by the system, or may increase if things go wrong. But don't say that because yours doesn't sway, the engineering and science somehow isn't real, and that people who have purchased 3P hitches have somehow deluded themselves. Your number just hasn't come up yet.
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Old 04-17-2017, 01:18 PM   #74
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Ok, this is my last post in this thread -- hopefully my last post in this forum...

Personally, I have no problem with PPP hitches what so ever. If I had a truck that could support a heavy tongue weight (we have an unibody SUV), I would consider it. I casually understand the engineering behind the design and how it prevents sway. I know its superior to traditional WDHs when it comes to sway prevention. I also respect other people's decision when they decide on a PPP hitch.

What bothers me is when a handful of fanboys come to every hitch thread and call ANYTHING but a PPP hitch "obsolete" and "unsafe" (I'm not sure how this does not violate the "be nice" rule). This is absolute nonsense. I bet 99% of trailers on the road use traditional WDHs (I have personally only seen 1 Hensley at a gas station and not surprisingly it was an Airstream) and they seem to be doing just fine, getting to their destination safely and comfortably. Mind you most of these trailers are box trailers that don't have the advanced Airstream suspension, its aerodynamic shape or its low center of gravity.

Every hitch has pros and cons (something the fanboys refuse to accept). PPP hitches are not an exception. We all know the pros. The cons are its heavy weight, excessive price, difficulty hitching up on uneven surfaces (at least during the initial phase of ownership), and complexity (difficult to install/uninstall, too many parts). If pros outweigh the cons for you, by all means, go get one. Just understand that different people have different requirements and may decide differently. I do not consider PPP hitches any safer than traditional hitches. Most accidents happen due to speeding, texting (or being distracted in general), sleeping behind the wheel, driving while drunk, or poor weather. No type of hitch is going to help you in these situations.

I use a traditional hitch. I have never experienced sway (knock on wood). I can have 2 fingers on the steering wheel when semis pass me at 80 MPH (I drive at 60 MPH in the right lane). I have no need for an "upgrade". I can live with the fact that my WDH does not prevent sway, from an engineering stand point, like PPP hitches. I'm ok with that. What I'm not ok with is overzealous PPP fanboys trying to "convert" me. I'm happy with what I've got. You have to accept that some people believe there is more than 1 great trailer type, 1 great hitch type, 1 great tire type, and 1 great RV shop. I'm sure you can promote your favorite trailer without disrespecting 99% of others who have a different trailer type. Same goes for hitches, tires, and RV shops. This site should not be turned into a boutique to promote your favorite toy.
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Old 04-17-2017, 01:41 PM   #75
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If we first start off agreeing that any trailer, with any hitch, has the ability to move back and forth behind the tow vehicle, then we can get to the discussion about what happens when it does. I don't think that your phrase "If it's true..." is fair. It ignores what is happening from an engineering perspective. It suggests some sort of equivalence to the two positions, ie either could be true.


I think you and I are saying the same thing only you're saying it more eloquently and correctly than I did.

What I meant by "if it's true..." might better have been said - "engineers here have argued that having the pivot point closer to the rear axle of your TV is an inherently safer setup - and whether one is an engineer or not - as I surely am not - I presume for sake of argument this is true...." - which means *I* had some choices (a 5er, a PullRite, or a virtual projection hitch...). I didn't mean an equivalence exists between views - I was trying (ineffectively) to explain how to come to a decision. Your description of the actual forces was excellent and an example of why a non-engineer like myself opted for the hitch I did.

Still - even as a user of a VPP hitch, I don't for a second believe it is THE universal answer. I've said a million times in these forums I would have preferred the PullRite for it's "upside down 5th wheel" physical structure....No matter - I think taking it slow and being aware of your surroundings counts for an awful lot in the equation. But I know - for me - I can't control how other people drive or what circumstances I might find myself having to react to.

Again - know what you're trying to accomplish and why - then decide among many excellent well-known options that work with your budget. Driving like a jerk with a ProPride is probably more likely to kill you or someone else than driving carefully, slowly, defensively with any other brand...(I surmise as a non-engineer...).
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Old 04-17-2017, 02:20 PM   #76
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Every Airstream comes with a standard feature that will stop a sway event. This feature is called electric brakes. All that is needed to stop a sway event with an Airstream is for someone to pull the lever on the brake controller. This will slow the Airstream and pull the rig back into alignment. This someone can be the driver or the passenger in a vehicle with a centrally located brake controller. So now you know what to do if your "number comes up." You do not need to buy a multi-thousand dollar hitch.
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Old 04-17-2017, 02:28 PM   #77
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Every Airstream comes with a standard feature that will stop a sway event. This feature is called electric brakes. All that is needed to stop a sway event with an Airstream is for someone to pull the lever on the brake controller. This will slow the Airstream and pull the rig back into alignment. This someone can be the driver or the passenger in a vehicle with a centrally located brake controller. So now you know what to do if your "number comes up." You do not need to go out and buy a multi-thousand dollar hitch.
Most new trucks and cars come with electronic stability control which detects sway and applies the truck's brakes on one side or the other. Some even apply the trailer's brakes. There are also devices you can mount on the trailer which will apply the trailer's brakes if sway is detected. That said, Airstream's properly loaded don't sway very much, if at all.
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Old 04-17-2017, 08:18 PM   #78
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Wow I can't believe I read the whole thing. I have the Andersen it has proven to do a great job of sway control with my light half ton truck & many different longer larger TTs both AS & box over grades through curves & moderate wind. So I am not totally unhappy with it. That said I put a fair amount of TTs on a Cat scale and I would like better weight redistribution.

I am interested in the BO Sway Pro & believe it would suffice for sway control as I generally only travel at 65ish mph but am unsure it would provide substantially better weight redistribution as compared to the Andersen. Anybody have any scale comparisons of the two with a half ton & the same trailer?
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Old 04-18-2017, 08:12 AM   #79
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Finally had to jump in. You sure have a thing against ProPride! The only hitch I have ever had on my Airstream and I love it. Yes there is a learning curve, but once you are through that, it is not any harder than any other hitch. Conversely, the physics are clear, there are situations where a ProPride will outperform other hitches. You personally may not have experienced sway but it is obvious that others have. If you are happy with your hitch, fine, but I cannot see why you have to beat up those who have opted for something else.
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I have absolutely nothing against PP, on the contrary they are a great hitch.
What I resent is the constant harangue by many PP owners that unless you have one you are not safe and endangering the motoring public at large. The preposterous claims and statements are tiresome.
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Old 04-18-2017, 08:50 AM   #80
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Amen.
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Old 04-18-2017, 09:34 AM   #81
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amen,too
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Old 04-18-2017, 10:07 AM   #82
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Among the misinformation frequently posted about the Hensley/ProPride hitch design is "difficulty hitching up on uneven surfaces".

We can easily align the hitch box to the stinger on the truck by moving it to either side, or tilt it sideways using a w.d. screw jack on one side, or tilt it up or down on the level using both screw jacks.

However, if we back into a campsite and pull away, there is no need to change the tilt on the hitch head to hitch up again. Just back in and it will align as when we parked it. Latch and pin it, raise the weight distribution bars with the screw jacks (the Airstream stabilizer speed handle works very well), our ProPride is hooked up. Simple.
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Old 04-25-2017, 06:49 PM   #83
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I'd like to see the scale weights of a loaded F-150 Platinum (or a similar 1/2 ton truck) and newer FC 25 using a Blue Ox w.d. hitch, to see if it can restore the truck's steering axle to its unloaded weight.

Looking at the flex in the w.d. bars, I would be surprised if it can, and this combination needs full weight distribution for good steering control in all conditions, resistance to sway, and transfer some load off the truck axles to the trailer axles.

"Works fine" only goes so far (and we are talking a gas engine 1/2 ton truck here), the weight scales will be needed to evaluate safety and actual performance capability for this combination.
Here you go. Fully restored front axle on Nissan Titan XD Diesel with Blue Ox Swaypro 1000# bars. Moved 200# to front axle and 180# to Airstream FC25FB axle. Three and 1/2 links showing under latches hooked to ninth chain link from loose end.
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