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11-12-2017, 04:48 AM
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#101
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Rivet Master
Currently Looking...
Mantua
, Ohio
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 7,062
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So unless you are in a friggin hurry any good wd antisway hitch set up properly will work! Take your time, drive 65 or less, be happy.
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11-12-2017, 05:32 AM
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#102
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4 Rivet Member
Currently Looking...
Baltimore
, Maryland
Join Date: Nov 2017
Posts: 378
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SailorSam205
Yup, what Bob said.... I'm not sure, but the energy not absorbed by the hitch on one side of the sway cycle may be added as the trailer
reverses making the total energy input even higher on the subsequent oscilation....
One other thing I got from the study (my interpretation, not stated by the author). It is impossible to load a trailer so that it will never sway if the trailer can pivot on a ball hitch. There will always be a speed above which the trailer will sway. So the admonition to slow down is well stated.
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You are correct that there will always be a critical speed at which sway will occur with every conventional towing combo. Hitch integrated sway control and friction addons will raise that critical speed by a small amount and dampen once it occurs. It can’t prevent it completely. This is why the first choice to prevent sway should be to keep the critical speed above normal operating speeds. To do that you need to have a properly loaded trailer with the CG properly placed longitudinal and low vertically. The next factor to consider to raise the critical speed is the TV to trailer mass ratio. This ratio is being ignored even by the manufactures (Ford F150) now days with the addition of electronic stability/sway control systems. ESC systems only dampen once the oscillation has started and does not prevent it. Some ESC will not operate as designed if suspension systems are stiffened with airbags or some type of helper springs.
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11-12-2017, 09:29 AM
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#103
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Rivet Master
1972 31' Sovereign
1975 31' Excella 500
Currently Looking...
Benton
, Arkansas
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 5,868
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Profxd
You are correct that there will always be a critical speed at which sway will occur with every conventional towing combo. Hitch integrated sway control and friction addons will raise that critical speed by a small amount and dampen once it occurs. It can’t prevent it completely. This is why the first choice to prevent sway should be to keep the critical speed above normal operating speeds. To do that you need to have a properly loaded trailer with the CG properly placed longitudinal and low vertically. The next factor to consider to raise the critical speed is the TV to trailer mass ratio. This ratio is being ignored even by the manufactures (Ford F150) now days with the addition of electronic stability/sway control systems. ESC systems only dampen once the oscillation has started and does not prevent it. Some ESC will not operate as designed if suspension systems are stiffened with airbags or some type of helper springs.
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The thing is, the trailer is what sways, and it will sway if the conditions are right, even if it is pulled by a tank. Maybe it might be said that the band aid is the all the stuff mentioned above, and the real fix is one of the two top level hitches in the marketplace.
__________________
The fact that I am opinionated does not presuppose that I am wrong......
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11-12-2017, 09:56 AM
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#104
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JFTKSU78
2017 23' Flying Cloud
Olathe
, Kansas
Join Date: May 2017
Posts: 127
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The engineering economics for my AS 23FB is the Equalizer 4... two axles, good tire maintenance, fill up water tank, properly loaded trailer, and responsible driving... lots of miles - have not had any issues...yet? It does “Works(J) fine in dissipating energy through the friction surfaces. Certainly - the case for a different hitch for the longer TT is worth evaluating. This discussion led me to give my physics students an assignment the other day to draw the freebody diagram on the E4 in three dimensions “At rest”....those invisible forces? The dynamic loading/ oscillations - they can take that up with their college professors later on....thanks.
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11-12-2017, 03:23 PM
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#105
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Rivet Master
1972 31' Sovereign
1975 31' Excella 500
Currently Looking...
Benton
, Arkansas
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 5,868
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jftompkins
The engineering economics for my AS 23FB is the Equalizer 4... two axles, good tire maintenance, fill up water tank, properly loaded trailer, and responsible driving... lots of miles - have not had any issues...yet? It does “Works(J) fine in dissipating energy through the friction surfaces. Certainly - the case for a different hitch for the longer TT is worth evaluating. This discussion led me to give my physics students an assignment the other day to draw the freebody diagram on the E4 in three dimensions “At rest”....those invisible forces? The dynamic loading/ oscillations - they can take that up with their college professors later on....thanks.
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It may be be, and almost certainly is true that a ProPride or Hensley is not the best solution for every Airstream and every Airstreamer, but it is the best at eliminating sway and making a trailer that is prone to sway pull like a million bucks.
__________________
The fact that I am opinionated does not presuppose that I am wrong......
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11-12-2017, 04:01 PM
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#106
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Rivet Master
2014 25' FB International
2007 20' Safari SE
2005 19' Safari
Qualicum Beach
, British Columbia
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 1,096
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Quote:
Originally Posted by J. Morgan
It may be be, and almost certainly is true that a ProPride or Hensley is not the best solution for every Airstream and every Airstreamer, but it is the best at eliminating sway and "making a trailer that is prone to sway "pull like a million bucks.
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Why is an Airstream trailer prone to sway? I was always under the impression that because of its aerodynamic shape that the opposite was true. At least that's what all the advertising would have one believe.
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11-12-2017, 04:25 PM
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#107
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Rivet Master
2007 30' Classic
Oswego
, Illinois
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 13,669
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gandttimes
Why is an Airstream trailer prone to sway? I was always under the impression that because of its aerodynamic shape that the opposite was true. At least that's what all the advertising would have one believe.
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ASes are probably less prone to wind induced sway and their low CG helps as well, but once sway starts, it is a mass and inertia thing. All trailers with axles placed like a recreational trailer are suseptable, to varying degrees.
__________________
-Rich-
"If the women don't find you handsome, they should at least find you handy." - Red Green
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11-12-2017, 04:27 PM
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#108
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Rivet Master
1972 31' Sovereign
1975 31' Excella 500
Currently Looking...
Benton
, Arkansas
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 5,868
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Best Anti-Sway Tow Hitch
Quote:
Originally Posted by gandttimes
Why is an Airstream trailer prone to sway? I was always under the impression that because of its aerodynamic shape that the opposite was true. At least that's what all the advertising would have one believe.
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Speaking about my two 31’ trailers, they are prone to sway because there is so much trailer behind the rear axles. (Its an inertia thing) My trailers were quite stable until about 62 mph. The thing is, with my Hensley in place, even the hint of sway is eliminated, at much higher speeds.
They are very aerodynamic, and they pull sweet, but, if a person is going to pull a big Airstream over sixty, sway is going to need to be dealt with. That’s my take anyway.
__________________
The fact that I am opinionated does not presuppose that I am wrong......
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11-12-2017, 06:08 PM
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#109
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Rivet Master
2013 25' FB Flying Cloud
Longmont
, Colorado
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 1,107
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This thread has been arguing about the sway aspect of the hitch for a while. But what about other attributes, such as durability and maintainability?
I have an EAZ-Lift that is showing signs of non-repairable wear at 22,000 miles. (see http://www.airforums.com/forums/f238...ft-174880.html)
How long do other hitches last? Do some hitches have parts that need to be repaired or replaced over time? Is maintenance easy on some hitches and hard on others?
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11-12-2017, 06:35 PM
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#110
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Rivet Master
1972 31' Sovereign
1975 31' Excella 500
Currently Looking...
Benton
, Arkansas
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 5,868
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SSquared
This thread has been arguing about the sway aspect of the hitch for a while. But what about other attributes, such as durability and maintainability?
I have an EAZ-Lift that is showing signs of non-repairable wear at 22,000 miles. (see http://www.airforums.com/forums/f238...ft-174880.html)
How long do other hitches last? Do some hitches have parts that need to be repaired or replaced over time? Is maintenance easy on some hitches and hard on others?
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It is my understanding that ProPrides and Hensleys have lifetime warranties, I bought mine used so I don’t get a warrantee, but my parts required to keep mine working have only cost me about $20 over three years.
__________________
The fact that I am opinionated does not presuppose that I am wrong......
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11-12-2017, 06:38 PM
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#111
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Rivet Master
2007 30' Classic
Oswego
, Illinois
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 13,669
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Quote:
Originally Posted by J. Morgan
It is my understanding that ProPrides and Hensleys have lifetime warranties, I bought mine used so I don’t get a warrantee, but my parts required to keep mine working have only cost me about $20 over three years.
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Bought mine used too. Replaced the bushings and retaining pins, seals repainted and haven't spent any more money since. That was 20k miles ago.
__________________
-Rich-
"If the women don't find you handsome, they should at least find you handy." - Red Green
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11-12-2017, 07:24 PM
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#112
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Rivet Master
1972 31' Sovereign
1975 31' Excella 500
Currently Looking...
Benton
, Arkansas
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 5,868
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dznf0g
Bought mine used too. Replaced the bushings and retaining pins, seals repainted and haven't spent any more money since. That was 20k miles ago.
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There are really only two history notes on my Hensley, the left clevis between the jack and the WD bar broke on the road. In emergency mode I bought two pieces of 5/16” chain and a handful of grade eight bolts. That was over a year ago, its still that way.
Later I pulled mine off when Channing had the corrosion problems with his bearings. I think water got in the bearing chamber and wiped his bearings out.
Mine was clean and dry inside, so I put it together. Someday I plan to take it off and paint it.... someday.
__________________
The fact that I am opinionated does not presuppose that I am wrong......
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11-12-2017, 07:28 PM
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#113
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Rivet Master
2007 30' Classic
Oswego
, Illinois
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 13,669
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Quote:
Originally Posted by J. Morgan
There are really only two history notes on my Hensley, the left clevis between the jack and the WD bar broke on the road. In emergency mode I bought two pieces of 5/16” chain and a handful of grade eight bolts. That was over a year ago, its still that way.
Later I pulled mine off when Channing had the corrosion problems with his bearings. I think water got in the bearing chamber and wiped his bearings out.
Mine was clean and dry inside, so I put it together. Someday I plan to take it off and paint it.... someday.
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I was worried with channing's post too. Popped off caps. No water, but I did clean the mating surfaces and sealed them in place. I did buy the spare parts bag, just in case. I am seeing some wear on the pins and saddles in the Jack system, but nothing worrisome yet.
__________________
-Rich-
"If the women don't find you handsome, they should at least find you handy." - Red Green
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11-12-2017, 07:47 PM
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#114
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Rivet Master
1972 31' Sovereign
1975 31' Excella 500
Currently Looking...
Benton
, Arkansas
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 5,868
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dznf0g
I was worried with channing's post too. Popped off caps. No water, but I did clean the mating surfaces and sealed them in place. I did buy the spare parts bag, just in case. I am seeing some wear on the pins and saddles in the Jack system, but nothing worrisome yet.
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The clevis I was talking about was a piece of 1/8” sheet metal bent into a clevis. One of mine failed in Texas. It was a non event stability wise. Even with one WD bar the system remained 100% stable, although I did lose at least half of my WD...
Disclosure wise, I cant say if this was a stock part or someones replacement part since I bought it used.
__________________
The fact that I am opinionated does not presuppose that I am wrong......
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11-12-2017, 07:48 PM
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#115
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Rivet Master
2023 23' International
Macon
, Georgia
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 705
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The best anti-sway hitch would be a Hensley that was redesigned to make hitching easier without having all of the angularity issues. I would pay another $1000 over the current price of the hitch for that.
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11-12-2017, 07:57 PM
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#116
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Rivet Master
1972 31' Sovereign
1975 31' Excella 500
Currently Looking...
Benton
, Arkansas
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 5,868
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Best Anti-Sway Tow Hitch
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roadtech
The best anti-sway hitch would be a Hensley that was redesigned to make hitching easier without having all of the angularity issues. I would pay another $1000 over the current price of the hitch for that.
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The hitching thing can kind of suck sometimes, but its worth it.
It would be a difficult engineering challenge to make the alignment process easier,,,, maybe a receiver that slid from side to side might work?
Such a receiver would have to stay square as it moved from side to side for it to do any good....
__________________
The fact that I am opinionated does not presuppose that I am wrong......
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11-12-2017, 08:04 PM
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#117
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Rivet Master
2007 30' Classic
Oswego
, Illinois
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 13,669
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Quote:
Originally Posted by J. Morgan
The clevis I was talking about was a piece of 1/8” sheet metal bent into a clevis. One of mine failed in Texas. It was a non event stability wise. Even with one WD bar the system remained 100% stable, although I did lose at least half of my WD...
Disclosure wise, I cant say if this was a stock part or someones replacement part since I bought it used.
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Yeah, I figured that. That's one of the places I'm seeing wear corresponding to its pin. I have a couple of those in my parts bag. Haven't needs them yet, but will sooner or later.
__________________
-Rich-
"If the women don't find you handsome, they should at least find you handy." - Red Green
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11-12-2017, 08:18 PM
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#118
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Rivet Master
1972 31' Sovereign
1975 31' Excella 500
Currently Looking...
Benton
, Arkansas
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 5,868
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dznf0g
Yeah, I figured that. That's one of the places I'm seeing wear corresponding to its pin. I have a couple of those in my parts bag. Haven't needs them yet, but will sooner or later.
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I had seen some wear around the pin bosses but nothing that made me think it was going to fail anytime soon, but I was loaded heavy with tools that trip.
It didn’t fail at the bosses though, it failed at the top of the U. Metal fatigue in the brake bends.
Quote:
Originally Posted by J. Morgan
I had seen some wear around the pin bosses but nothing that made me think it was going to fail anytime soon, but I was loaded heavy with tools that trip.
It didn’t fail at the bosses though, it failed at the top of the U. Metal fatigue in the brake bends.
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If anyone traveled across I-20 between the I-10 split and Pecos before the recent repairs might understand how something might break there, the road was pretty bad....
Quote:
Originally Posted by avionstream
So unless you are in a friggin hurry any good wd antisway hitch set up properly will work! Take your time, drive 65 or less, be happy.
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65 was too fast for my trailer on the ball.
60 worked ok, but that wasn’t me. Besides, it drives better at 60 too, and without having to worry about accidentally driving faster.
__________________
The fact that I am opinionated does not presuppose that I am wrong......
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11-12-2017, 09:51 PM
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#119
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Rivet Master
2014 25' FB International
2007 20' Safari SE
2005 19' Safari
Qualicum Beach
, British Columbia
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 1,096
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SSquared
This thread has been arguing about the sway aspect of the hitch for a while. But what about other attributes, such as durability and maintainability?
I have an EAZ-Lift that is showing signs of non-repairable wear at 22,000 miles. (see http://www.airforums.com/forums/f238...ft-174880.html)
How long do other hitches last? Do some hitches have parts that need to be repaired or replaced over time? Is maintenance easy on some hitches and hard on others?
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My Equal-i-zer is 13 years old and on its 3rd trailer. Took it apart once in 2013 ,cleaned and repainted and it's still working great and doing its job properly after about 50k miles of towing. However I carefully set the weight distribution for each trailer and don't travel over 6o mph.
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11-12-2017, 11:31 PM
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#120
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Vintage Kin
Fort Worth
, Texas
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 8,014
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The Euro stuff is interesting -- the study worth a read -- but trailer and TV differences (extra low TW and no WD, among others) make it more of a curiosity than an aid. Bundorf, 1965 (SAE) is better.
"Best" hitch is by design. Same as with a TV. Same as with the TT.
And any reader can safely ignore those who find a few dollars as relevant in the choice of a hitch.
How much were the vehicles? They were each one-third of achieving a good highway rig. The hitch and it's installation are the other third.
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