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Old 08-02-2018, 01:13 PM   #21
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You mean it doesn't increase 'level load capicity'👎

....someone tell Firestone jobber 😂

"Firestone Ride-Rite air bag helper springs are the work horse of the Firestone line. The double convoluted air bags offer maximum load support as well as years of worry-free service. These are installed between the frame of your vehicle and the suspension, providing load support through the use of air pressure. Specifically designed to maximize the safe load carrying capacity, stability and ride quality. Will also reduce the suspension fatigue on leaf springs caused by permanently sagging. An optional air control kit (air compressor kit) can be added (not required) for additional convenience."
FEATURES & BENEFITS
• Firestone # 2253 Air Bags are custom fit for the Chevy Suburban
• Custom fit installation
• Kit includes (2) air bag helper springs and all required hardware
• Air Bags will increase "level load" capacity by 5000lbs*
• Keeps the your Suburban level
• Levels off-center loads (side to side adjustment)
• Reduce suspension fatigue, keeps leaf springs caused by permanently sagging
• Increase vehicle stability
• Air adjustment improves the ride
• Limited Lifetime Warranty
—————————————————————————————————————————————————— —————————————————

-----Original Message-----
From: Robert Cross [mailto:xxxxxxxxxxx]
Sent: Sunday, September 04, 2011 10:59 AM
To: info@suspensionconnection.com
Subject: Airbag Chev Suburban

I am wondering how much more payload I will gain by adding rear bags to
my 06 3/4 Burb. Not sure of what the "level load capacity" of the Burb
is now.
I am concerned about overloading the axle as I tow an RV. How much would
I gain by upgrading the suspension with a quality air bag system.
Look forward to your recommendations.

Thank You,
Bob


On Sep 7, 2011, at 12:34 PM, INFO @ SuspensionConnection wrote:

The Firestone air bags will increase your weight carrying capacity by
5000 pounds. I definitely recommend this system for your Burb:
Chevy Firestone Air Bags - 2000-2009 Chevy Suburban 2500 4x4 & 2wd - Firestone "Ride-Rite" Air Bag Helper Springs (Rear)

Thanks

woo-whoop... ahhh 🤪

Bob
🇺🇸
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Old 08-05-2018, 04:38 PM   #22
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I added a set of Firestone air bags to the rear of my ole 1996 F250 when the rear springs started to sag under loads a few years ago. A few psi of air and the sag is gone, and a few more and she begins to look like a randy little filly.

The air bags work really well for me when toting a load in the bed and/or a trailer on the hitch. I can keep my headlights level instead of gazing at the trees. I know the airbags do not allow me to exceed the weight ratings issued by Ford, and I don't want them to. But those airbags do allow my old truck to handle its rated loads and even take some of the motion out of the roller coaster waves which result from uneven slabs found on too many concrete Interstates.

I never noticed any problems like the OP describes, nor have I heard of others having any such problems either.
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Old 08-06-2018, 12:53 PM   #23
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Air bags and air suspension aren’t the same. Switz and guskmg indicating the latter.

Roll couple does matter. Collyn doesn’t have real experience with US spec equipment, and use in Australia is significantly different. Them boys go way back on the dirt. WD hitches new there, but tow vehicles quite different, trailer tongue length etc. Yet the problem is real.

A pickup has an overly stiff rear suspension. Which makes it lousy as a tow vehicle. Adding bandaids to that only worsens the inherent problems.

Loaded or unloaded, the bias is present. Why a Hensley-patent hitch is still the best starting point as the pickup genuinely needs all the help it can get. As keeping the Drive Axle planted is the thing. Not many square inches of tire patch, and a high propensity to lose that contact.

I added an anti-roll bar to the rear of my Dodge (I think all brands are now so equipped) and this necessitated the upsizing of the front to keep things a match. The truck easily handles higher ramp and cloverleaf speeds if desired (I don’t). Some more roughness present.

A rear Panhard Rod (see Super Steer Rear Track Bar) is the other step (SteveH put one on his 2012 Dodge; See thread). The combination keeps the body centered over the suspension, and the FF & RR of the truck acting “together”. Especially noticeable in cross-winds.

Both or either of these tend to limit rear axle wheel travel. More like a car.

Aftermarket HD shock absorbers are the usual first step in trying to tune the suspension. About as far as most get (entry level)

Tire pressure beyond scaled value equivalents isn’t good. And it’s common. Usually cranked way up to try to alleviate turn-in woes.

The above and time at the scale is what’s needed. FALR is the starting point. If the rear of truck squats it’s not a problem where the scale indicates good distribution to all three axles.

The universal AS & one-ton problem isn’t just the bad choice of TV, it’s the lousy hitch rigging. The “universal” is the TT hopping along on the forward axle. Fix that problem. The rest doesn’t matter nearly as much. Get the scale master to walk you the a split-axle weigh at the CAT Scale. Rough-in is a carpenter level across the door frame. Dead level is acceptable. Nothing else.

pappy19, I’m not at all surprised your Ford squats. They all do, and I have to constantly hold off on flashing Phord drivers from the KW about their headlights whether barely loaded with bedroom furniture or towing a bass boat. Maybe you can start a thread over there on how to adjust those. It’s always the last 25-years that if you want to look good (extra chrome), get a Ford. Six, or is it seven tries to get a workable Diesel engine? When there’s work to be done, have to put a Dodge under the load.

Were I in the market again for a 3/4T it’d be with factory rear air ride on Dodge.

As I no longer have the need, the next TV won’t be a truck. But I also don’t need air bags even with a 35’ TT and rear axle just over gross on this 2004 once hitched (in signature; truck starts loaded 50/50 FF/RR @ 1,200-lbs above TARE in it’s solo state). Level trailer, check, adjust to FALR, check, and tweak the headlamps, check. Same as with a car.

Hitch rigging is always the thing.

.
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Old 08-06-2018, 01:16 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by slowmover View Post

--------------------snip----------------------------

A rear Panhard Rod (see Super Steer Rear Track Bar) is the other step (SteveH put one on his 2012 Dodge; See thread). The combination keeps the body centered over the suspension, and the FF & RR of the truck acting “together”. Especially noticeable in cross-winds.

Both or either of these tend to limit rear axle wheel travel. More like a car.

------------------------snip---------------------------

Hitch rigging is always the thing.

.
I would also suspect that a Panhard Rod or a very stiff laterally rear suspension is important to properly using a sway control hitch, especially the Hensley-designed ones. The Hensley Pivot Point Projection (PPP) linkage puts lateral sway forces on or near the rear axle. If the rear axle is not firmly centered, and held that way by the rear suspension, the body of the vehicle is going to be moving left/right in response to those sway forces, and still steering the vehicle a bit from the rear. Not a good scene for preventing sway coupling to the steer axle, and taking over. Then tire sidewall flex, shock absorber stiffness, and all the other suspension characteristics come into play--not just weight-carrying capability. Not simple.

I don't know if my Tacoma has a Panhard Rod setup, but so far, it seems to behave fairly stiff laterally around the rear axle when I'm towing the 22 footer. Time to crawl under and have a look at what's actually under there. I'm not even real sure it has a rear anti-roll bar either...

Absolute "AMEN" from the choir on hitch rigging being vital...had it wrong once, figured it out after a short trip, spent the research time and the money to get the setup right for me..
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Old 08-06-2018, 03:17 PM   #25
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Any vehicle towing is helped by a rear track bar. Leaf or coil. Also any high profile vehicle in crosswinds. Body movement side to side against suspension is controlled. What gave the final touch to the 1967-68 Imperial as the best handling luxury car of that era and decades to come. Highly desirable to retired owners of our TT type. (“. . Cop motor, cop suspension”, to use a famous movie reference. Better than that actually).

A true Watts Linkage would be best with live rear axle. As with the Ford Crown Victoria after 2002.

Essentially, these are all attempts to replicate independent rear suspension stability. But those don’t suffer the same loss of wheel travel with locating arm (loss of road contact).

It’s a balancing act.

The hitch design isn’t the thing so much as where the force is exerted. At the axle trumps at the ball, any day. Load leveling crutches don’t offer any handling advantage, only disadvantages. Yanks the Drive Axle off, sooner.

See Inland Andy’s comments about the use of air shocks in the late 1960s -early 1970s when he was an accident investigator for Caravanner, the Airstream insurance arm. It was the same advice offered in plenty of publications I recall from the era.

Spread the load (WD) and handling is more predictable. It’s the start and the end.

Pickup suspensions can stand some modifications that benefit towing. Having to do with handling. It’s not tire pressure or jacking the rear axle, though.

.
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Old 08-06-2018, 10:53 PM   #26
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Actually, adding Firestone Airbags didn't make that much difference in the squat as it did helping to eliminate the "interstate hop" or porpoising in many miles of antiquated interstate highways. I may be unusual, but I carry about 600 lbs of "stuff", plus I have a 48 gallon gas tank in a short bed club cab truck. I have the shortest 3/4 ton 4x4 truck made and I love it.
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Old 08-07-2018, 05:02 AM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ROBERT CROSS View Post
....someone tell Firestone jobber 😂

FEATURES & BENEFITS
• Firestone # 2253 Air Bags are custom fit for the Chevy Suburban
• Custom fit installation
• Kit includes (2) air bag helper springs and all required hardware
• Air Bags will increase "level load" capacity by 5000lbs*
• Keeps the your Suburban level
• Levels off-center loads (side to side adjustment)
• Reduce suspension fatigue, keeps leaf springs caused by permanently sagging
• Increase vehicle stability
• Air adjustment improves the ride
• Limited Lifetime Warranty
And the lower right corner of page 3 in the Ride-Rite brochure

* Never exceed your vehicle’s maximum GVWR.

Brochure
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Old 08-07-2018, 10:43 PM   #28
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Tell Andy about "never exceeding your vehicle's maximum GVWR" , lol.
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Old 08-08-2018, 05:25 AM   #29
CLOUDSPLITTER "Tahawus"
 
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Who reads the * 😂

Quote:
Originally Posted by RandyNH View Post
And the lower right corner of page 3 in the Ride-Rite brochure

* Never exceed your vehicle’s maximum GVWR.

Brochure
So we can forget about the GAWR?
The answer I got from the jobber.
"The Firestone air bags will increase your weight carrying capacity by
5000 pounds."


Bob
🇺🇸
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Old 08-08-2018, 06:35 AM   #30
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Sales droids only lie when their mouth is moving, obviously trying to sell you something.
That’s total BS. The axle is a mechanical thing and the rating is set by the bearings, strength of the materials, and size. Airbags are not going to do anything other than make it easier to overload it.
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Old 08-08-2018, 09:40 PM   #31
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I've also got air lifts on my 1996 Ford, and they work very nicely to adjust for a level ride (and a level Airstream) as the bed load varies. I don't use a WD hitch, as it's really not necessary w/ a 500 lb tongue weight on an F250 w/ a 1000 lb diesel on the front wheels. I did the numbers - the weight on the ball reduces the weight on the front wheels by 117 lbs - less than either of us . Sometimes the truck is at GVWR, and sometimes 800 lbs below even when pulling the trailer - but adjusting the air pressure makes it ride nice. It also helps, as others have commented, on reducing the pogoing on some Interstates.
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Old 08-11-2018, 08:19 PM   #32
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I ran the Firestone bags on my old F-250 and they worked great. I put the Airlift bags on my current F-250 and they work even better. Airlift incorporates an internal Jounce stop that under zero pressure makes it behave exactly like the normal suspension before the bags were added. I air up to about 20 psi with the HA-WD and depending on what other trailer (cattle, hay, bobcat, dump, etc.) I'm hauling I'll run up to 50 psi to keep things level. Not only do things tow and brake better but I can keep my headlights on the road and not in other drivers eyes. I only use them for truck leveling and never load beyond factory specs.
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Old 08-12-2018, 06:12 PM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by barts View Post
I've also got air lifts on my 1996 Ford, and they work very nicely to adjust for a level ride (and a level Airstream) as the bed load varies. I don't use a WD hitch, as it's really not necessary w/ a 500 lb tongue weight on an F250 w/ a 1000 lb diesel on the front wheels. I did the numbers - the weight on the ball reduces the weight on the front wheels by 117 lbs - less than either of us . Sometimes the truck is at GVWR, and sometimes 800 lbs below even when pulling the trailer - but adjusting the air pressure makes it ride nice. It also helps, as others have commented, on reducing the pogoing on some Interstates.
The scale weights are a stand-in. Static.

Better had you increased the Steer Axle weight by 120-lbs than reduced by same. Especially without WD.

Worth your while to try WD.
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