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Old 03-24-2019, 06:06 AM   #29
CLOUDSPLITTER "Tahawus"
 
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Originally Posted by jlandreth View Post
Bob, I'm assuming you mean move more weight forward in the trailer. Other than enough clothes for a weekend trip I don't have anything behind the axles.
Yes..move weight forward in the trailer.

Another option if you have an adjustable stinger drop the tongue an inch or so, the lower the tongue the heavier it is.
Use the WD to level it, it is best to ck everything at the scales to confirm.
Don't let the CAT worry you, once you get a baseline it is pretty easy to get it right for each trip> I usually go the first trip of each Season.
I have my Hensley WD jacks marked and can refer to my log if I'm not sure of the setting.
You can do the same with chain links.👍
Bob
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Old 04-03-2019, 02:13 PM   #30
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Ok, I'm going to a CAT scale here in town tomorrow. With my 2018 F250 CC SRW and my 2019 30' Classic what exactly am I trying to get to?
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Old 04-03-2019, 03:03 PM   #31
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jlandreth - first go here to observe the process of weighing, find scales near you, and download the app (assuming youíre going to a CAT scale)

https://weighmytruck.com/how-to-use/...SAAEgK3YfD_BwE

Youíre looking for 3 specific weights to get started - any order is fine just be sure you get one of each of the following all fully loaded for camping:

- truck alone (with passenger(s) and gear)
- truck with trailer attached, no weight distribution applied
- truck with trailer attached and full WD applied

I get those in reverse order, meaning, I go to the scales with what I expect to be max WD applied on my drive there - then thatís the first weigh. Itís VERY simple on the app - you donít even need to leave your truck.

Then I exit the scales, come back around, and line it up in front of the scales for the next weigh. I exit the truck, loosen all the WD and then drive the rig up on the platform for weigh #2 - on the app - choose REWEIGH as itís only $2 instead of the $12 or whatever the first weigh is.

Then I drive out to a spot where I can drop the trailer and head back with truck alone. I get it on the platform and do my next REWEIGH.

The site I linked you to will show you how to position your truck and trailer axles on the scales.

With those 3 weights, one of the things youíre looking for is the difference between the weight on the steer axle of the truck by itself, what happened to that weight when you put the trailer in it without WD, and with the amount of WD you applied, how much of the weight got restored to the front axle. Iíll attache images of my most recent weights as an example. In my tickets you can see attaching the trailer took 460# off my steer axle, and applying a certain amount of WD put 280# (or 61% of the 460) back on the steer axle.

My truck manual wants 50% FALR (front axle load restoration). Iíve had it closer to 100% and Iím not sure why Iím not at that same level this time - but thatís the fun of the scales. You can diagnose whatever you need to do to adjust because youíll have the data.

If your truck manual wants 50% or 100% or anything else, you can dial in what you need with your hitch.

After your third weight, if you do it in the order I do, youíll reconnect your trailer and if you wanted 100% FALR but only got 30%, you can now put more WD on and go back for another reweigh and see if you achieved the target. You can repeat until youíre satisfied. Each reweigh that day is only $2.

Thatís only one of the things youíre looking for - some say 1/3, 1/3, 1/3 weight on each axle is a target - Iím not sure I agree. But if your rig is squirrelly and you realize youíre not pushing enough to your front axle, you can test that out and see if that improves your ride. You can also make adjustments in where you put stuff in the trailer itself (more stuff over and on front of the axles vs behind the axles which would lighten your tongue weight which you want at 10-15% of the weight of your trailer - another target - I shoot for 15% to plant it pretty firmly).

Hope thatís of some help - things like a very level rig, proper tire pressure, etc all contribute as a system to improve stability. Scale weights can help analyze that a bit.

Good luck!


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Old 04-03-2019, 06:11 PM   #32
CLOUDSPLITTER "Tahawus"
 
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^
Right on.

I got to 100% return but backed off 100lb with no noticeable change in handling.
You're AS should be level when correct WD is set.

Our CAT tickets...


Bob
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Old 04-03-2019, 06:16 PM   #33
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Very well stated SteveSueMac!
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Old 04-03-2019, 07:08 PM   #34
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I really appreciate the wisdom and experience of the folks on this forum on this topic. I also have a question regarding some of the comments.

1. Why do ďbigger barsĒ beat up the trailer? Arenít the heavier bars just enabling more transfer of weight from the TV rear axle to the front axle and the trailer axles? All this talk of popped rivets, etc... I just donít get it. Itís not like the TV doesnít have a suspension and is transfer some abnormal amount of shock back to the trailer.

For reference in my situation, my tongue weight is about 1000 lbs. Iím still under the GCVWR and Max tow limit, but my SUVs rear axle is getting near itís max. So instead of adding something less than 100% of weight back to the front axle, Iím adding more than 100%. That is keeping my axle loads within limits. Maybe coincidentally, by TV and trailer tows like a dream. Zero sway and rock solid in the wind and trucks passing, etc. Great handling and tracks exactly where I point it. ďLevelĒ ride. Great braking, etc.
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Old 04-04-2019, 05:19 AM   #35
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Originally Posted by HappyHapgood View Post
1. Why do “bigger bars” beat up the trailer? Aren’t the heavier bars just enabling more transfer of weight from the TV rear axle to the front axle and the trailer axles? All this talk of popped rivets, etc... I just don’t get it. It’s not like the TV doesn’t have a suspension and is transfer some abnormal amount of shock back to the trailer.
The WD bars act as springs that allow you to adjust how much the trailer frame and TV frame to move together and how independent they are of each other. Imagine taking it to the extreme of a rigid connection between the TV and trailer frames. What would happen going over a 1' dip in the road? All the weight would be supported by the TV front axle and trailer axles with none on the TV rear axle. That would be a lot for the trailer frame to handle. So much that it might flex the frame enough to stress the shell and pop some of the lighter aluminum interior rivets.

The heavier the bars and the more WD you apply, the closer you are to that rigid connection. I have to hit the scales on our first trip this year since I did some tweaking at the end of last year, but I'm right up around 100% FALR myself and it definitely gives my rig better handling/stability than anything lower.
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Old 04-04-2019, 07:07 AM   #36
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Thanks for all the advice. Looks like I'm going to have to set aside more time to do this than I originally thought but I'm sure it will be worth it.
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Old 04-04-2019, 07:24 AM   #37
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Ok, I got registered and downloaded the app, very simple. Now to find the time to get it right.
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Old 04-04-2019, 09:48 AM   #38
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Originally Posted by jlandreth View Post
Ok, I got registered and downloaded the app, very simple. Now to find the time to get it right.


Great! Are there scales nearby to you - say within 30 minutes or so? If so - you could VERY comfortably plan on a Saturday morning or afternoon and fit it all in from hitching up, getting there, getting your weights, and getting back and unhitching. Real time may be closer to an hour at the scales your first time through but give yourself plenty of time - relax - and have fun with it! I totally geek out over this stuff!

Post your tickets here and youíll get great advice from the community here.

Enjoy!
Steve
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Old 04-04-2019, 02:21 PM   #39
CLOUDSPLITTER "Tahawus"
 
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HH,
👍

As has been noted you want the lowest rated bars that will move the needed weight. 🤓

Unfortunately you need to pretty much guess that number when you buy your hitch. Some folks use TW, but remember, you never have to move all of that number, only a portion of it depending on load.
We have a 1200lb TW. When we started with the Hensley PPP it was recommended we get 1400lb bars.
After a few trips to the scales we found that we had to move between 720-760lb depending on AS loading.
We dropped to 1000lb bars. Replaced the OEM receiver with one that had better frame mounting giving it more purchase/leverage which also improved weight transfer.
A soft connection between TV & AS improves comfort, drivability and saves the AS from unneeded stress damage.

Bob
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Old 04-04-2019, 02:41 PM   #40
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Originally Posted by SteveSueMac View Post
Great! Are there scales nearby to you - say within 30 minutes or so? If so - you could VERY comfortably plan on a Saturday morning or afternoon and fit it all in from hitching up, getting there, getting your weights, and getting back and unhitching. Real time may be closer to an hour at the scales your first time through but give yourself plenty of time - relax - and have fun with it! I totally geek out over this stuff!

Post your tickets here and youíll get great advice from the community here.

Enjoy!
Steve
The closest scales are about 40 minutes from my house. We are leaving tonight for a long weekend and coming back on Sunday so I think I will just stay hooked up and try to do this on Monday or Tuesday.
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Old 04-04-2019, 03:01 PM   #41
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Originally Posted by ROBERT CROSS View Post
HH,
��

As has been noted you want the lowest rated bars that will move the needed weight. ��

Unfortunately you need to pretty much guess that number when you buy your hitch. Some folks use TW, but remember, you never have to move all of that number, only a portion of it depending on load.
We have a 1200lb TW. When we started with the Hensley PPP it was recommended we get 1400lb bars.
After a few trips to the scales we found that we had to move between 720-760lb depending on AS loading.
We dropped to 1000lb bars. Replaced the OEM receiver with one that had better frame mounting giving it more purchase/leverage which also improved weight transfer.
A soft connection between TV & AS improves comfort, drivability and saves the AS from unneeded stress damage.

Bob
����
Bob- guess I disagree here....TW is important and using the recommended spring loading bars also seems important, despite your feelings. (No offense intended.) I also have some experience towing with different WDH's and being happy with my 3rd BO SwayPro now pulling my 28' FC. The TW was 1100 when I picked her up and had her weighed; AS tried to tell me 1000lb bars would work, but they guessed my TW was under 1000lbs...after several discussions with the Mfg., Blue Ox being consistent with their recommendations for my TW, I went with their recommendation of 1500lb bars. I had some proposing in the beginning while driving from Oregon dealer to my place in MT. When I discussed with BO, they recommended tightening the chain another notch, which I did. No issues now after almost 2 years and 20K miles; the AS rides very nice and never any sway. Also, as I mentioned in other posts, the GY Endurance tires need to be included in this equation; proper pressure for the loading recommended will also give you a better ride.

I know there are other "opinions" out there, but this being my 4th AS after pulling 3 different 25' AS's over the past 15 years, with 3 different model WDH's, I too believe I know a thing or two...(like Alstate...LOL) Of course, your mileage may vary...just follow the MFG recommendations for your weights and should work out...depending on which WDH you decide to use.
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Old 04-04-2019, 07:08 PM   #42
CLOUDSPLITTER "Tahawus"
 
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Bob- guess I disagree here....TW is important and using the recommended spring loading bars also seems important, despite your feelings. (No offense intended.) I also have some experience towing with different WDH's and being happy with my 3rd BO SwayPro now pulling my 28' FC. The TW was 1100 when I picked her up and had her weighed; AS tried to tell me 1000lb bars would work, but they guessed my TW was under 1000lbs...after several discussions with the Mfg., Blue Ox being consistent with their recommendations for my TW, I went with their recommendation of 1500lb bars. I had some proposing in the beginning while driving from Oregon dealer to my place in MT. When I discussed with BO, they recommended tightening the chain another notch, which I did. No issues now after almost 2 years and 20K miles; the AS rides very nice and never any sway. Also, as I mentioned in other posts, the GY Endurance tires need to be included in this equation; proper pressure for the loading recommended will also give you a better ride.

I know there are other "opinions" out there, but this being my 4th AS after pulling 3 different 25' AS's over the past 15 years, with 3 different model WDH's, I too believe I know a thing or two...(like Alstate...LOL) Of course, your mileage may vary...just follow the MFG recommendations for your weights and should work out...depending on which WDH you decide to use.
My 31 year old "Opinion"...

OK... then what is the point of my using 1400lb bars to move 720-780lb?
Our TW has no relevance to the weight being moved.
Seems to me the closer the bar is rated to the actual weight to be moved the better.
Soft ride less chance of AS damage.

Could it be that it's the design of your hitch that requires the stiffer bars?
Over engineered and poorly designed? 😂

Porpoising has more to do with harmonic oscillation from the road surface than the WD setting.
It may dip bounce that was the problem, stiffer bars would limit the bounce and increase shock to the AS.
But what do I know? 🤔
I'm just an anknictdotal bucklenuster. 😂

Bob
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