Anybody here tow with a Grand Wagoneer?

[zoro]

Anybody here tow their Airstream with a Jeep Grand Wagoneer? I've always been a huge fan of those old Jeeps and there's just something so classy about the Jeep and Airstream combo. The plan is to literally build one from the ground up. Looking for suggestions on drivetrain, gears, hitches etc.

As of right now I'm thinking of a GM 5.3 V8, 4L60E trans, 3.54 gears for the drivetrain and a set of helper airbag springs with a weight distribution hitch. What type of helper spring airbags and weight distribution hitch do you guys recommend?

The Jeep will be an everyday vehicle so I can't go too extreme with the modifications. The plan is to build the Jeep first then find the right Airstream. For those of you towing with these old Jeeps which model are you towing and what length? How big is too big?

[idroba]

My first tow vehicle for Airstreams was a Cherokee, full sized, like the Grand Wagoneer. It did several trips to the Yukon and much other towing.

In comparison to TV's today, it was not the greatest rig. The short wheelbase and somewhat sloppy suspension made it want to oversteer, unless very very carefully set up. At that time I was towing 23 and 25' Airstreams.

You can build anything of course, and modify until the cows come home, and may wind up with a nice rig, but still you are dealing with a short wheelbase vehicle designed in the 60's and out of date from the safety standpoint, as well as many other areas. Technology has progressed a lot from that time.

Of course that is my opinion only. I still love Jeeps, and currently tow with a 2012 Grand Cherokee Overland, with all the goodies. I love it, and it is a fine tow vehilcle. I use the Andersen hitch BTW.

[crispyboy]

I used to tow a 22' Airstream with a 1990 GW in stock form. I have a bias for old full size Jeeps so I loved the setup but I wanted a larger trailer.
If you have a weight distribution hitch you don't really need the helper springs. I would recommend new rear springs from BJ's Offroad or a local spring shop as most old Wagoneers have "wag sag" by now.
I used a Hensley hitch with the setup and there were no issues with crosswinds, sway or weight distribution.
I also had a J20 with the original AMC 360 engine and 3:73 gears. I dumped the carburetor and swapped in a TBI system. The TBI system consisted of off the shelf GM parts and drove like a modern day car.
It looks like your going to swap in a modern drivetrain. If your towing a 28' Argosy trailer in your signature then I would lean towards 3:73 gears.
I would also recommend an aluminum crossflow radiator. I put these in both of my Jeeps and never had over heating issues.
My personal taste would be to swap in a Hemi but the combo you have suggested should be very good.

[AldeanFan]

If you build a proper chassis for your rig the body is basically along for the ride.
I would start a project like this with a pickup truck frame and modify it for the Jeep body to fit, Mid 90's GMC/Chevy would give you good parts availability, but a Ram with the Hemi would be a great combo both for towing and to keep in the Chrysler family. You would have a great looking vintage vehicle with modern reliability and towing ability.

My 65 cobra replica has an 80's Mustang engine and brakes. It handles better than my 06 mustang, and is just as reliable. I can even get 25mpg highway, while still looking like a 65 Cobra.

I've seen lots of 50's ford pickup bodies on 80's and 90's short box ford PU frames.
A friend of mine plans to build his "ultimate Tow vehicle" by putting a 50's Jeep station wagon on a severly modified Dodge truck frame with a Cummins.

[crispyboy]

The grand wagoneer frame and axles are built plenty heavy for trailer towing and parts are still readily available. The only other upgrade I can think of doing would be changing the rear drum brakes to disk brakes. There are several kits available for the Dana 44 axle or AMC corporate axle.
I guess you could go either way if you have a cheap donor vehicle.

[FreshAir]

I can't say for certain how my '75 J20 will tow on the road. I boughtit years ago to tow a 5er. About the time the 360 went sour we sold the 5er and bought our Trade Wind to tow with our '71 Buick convertible with the 455. WOW that engine can PULL! So I replaced the 360 in the Jeep with another Buick 455. I haven't yet been on the road towing with the Jeep. The 455 is plenty powerfull as I use the truck to manuever the Airstream around our 2 hilly acres. The 455 weighs upwards to 100# more than the 360 did. This makes the truck nose heavy. But several hundred lbs in the back does make a difference. BUT whe push comes to shove the convertible gets the nod when we decide to travel with the AS.
Neil

[zoro]

Thanks for the info guys! I do realize the design is a little outdated but this will be a very well thought out process and atleast a year or two in the making.

Originally Posted by crispyboy

If you have a weight distribution hitch you don't really need the helper springs. I would recommend new rear springs from BJ's Offroad or a local spring shop as most old Wagoneers have "wag sag" by now.
I used a Hensley hitch with the setup and there were no issues with crosswinds, sway or weight distribution.
I also had a J20 with the original AMC 360 engine and 3:73 gears. I dumped the carburetor and swapped in a TBI system. The TBI system consisted of off the shelf GM parts and drove like a modern day car.
It looks like your going to swap in a modern drivetrain. If your towing a 28' Argosy trailer in your signature then I would lean towards 3:73 gears.
I would also recommend an aluminum crossflow radiator. I put these in both of my Jeeps and never had over heating issues.
My personal taste would be to swap in a Hemi but the combo you have suggested should be very good.

The plan is to start out with 4 new springs from BJ's and use the later model sway bars then go from there. Over the course of my build I'd probably have a small mortgage going to them, hopefully that will really help...Last thing I want is to end up stranded somewhere. A J20 would make for a great tow rig for sure, sounds like yours had quite the setup!

Don't have a trailer yet but do have an older '28 Class A. I think the forum software wanted something in there to enable the registration along with full name and address.

Originally Posted by AldeanFan

If you build a proper chassis for your rig the body is basically along for the ride.
I would start a project like this with a pickup truck frame and modify it for the Jeep body to fit, Mid 90's GMC/Chevy would give you good parts availability, but a Ram with the Hemi would be a great combo both for towing and to keep in the Chrysler family. You would have a great looking vintage vehicle with modern reliability and towing ability.

My 65 cobra replica has an 80's Mustang engine and brakes. It handles better than my 06 mustang, and is just as reliable. I can even get 25mpg highway, while still looking like a 65 Cobra.

I've seen lots of 50's ford pickup bodies on 80's and 90's short box ford PU frames.
A friend of mine plans to build his "ultimate Tow vehicle" by putting a 50's Jeep station wagon on a severly modified Dodge truck frame with a Cummins.

Sounds like one heck of a Mustang! Your buddy's Willys Wagon sounds like it's gonna be a sweet rig also. That's another option I'm taking into consideration, just need to find the right donor for the chassis then go thru and make it all new again. Not sure if that's the route I'm going yet tho.

[zoro]

Originally Posted by crispyboy

The grand wagoneer frame and axles are built plenty heavy for trailer towing and parts are still readily available. The only other upgrade I can think of doing would be changing the rear drum brakes to disk brakes. There are several kits available for the Dana 44 axle or AMC corporate axle.
I guess you could go either way if you have a cheap donor vehicle.

That's part of the plan also, modernizing as much as possible. 4 wheel disc with a GM style hydroboost should make for easy stopping.

[overlander64]

My first tow vehicle for my Overlander in 1995 was a 1984 Jeep Grand Wagoneer. It wass an excellent tow vehicle, but I wouldn't go any larger with than my 6,100 pound Overlander with the Grand Wagoneer that I had. My Grand Wagoneer had the 360 cubic inch V8 with TorqueFlyte Automatic Transmission and 3.90 differential gearing. The factory 18 gallon fuel tank limited its solo cruising range to 190 to 200 miles on the highway and only about 175 miles when towing the Overlander. My main reason for trading the Grand Wagoneer on a new tow vehicle was to get one with a cruising range at least double what I had with the Grand Wagoneer. I never had four wheel drive issues with the Grand Wagoneer, but have had nothing but four wheel drive problems with the two GM four wheel drive trucks that I have had (the GM trucks have had no problems other than transfer case problems with the four wheel drive mechanisms).

Kevin

[zoro]

Originally Posted by overlander64

My first tow vehicle for my Overlander in 1995 was a 1984 Jeep Grand Wagoneer. It wass an excellent tow vehicle, but I wouldn't go any larger with than my 6,100 pound Overlander with the Grand Wagoneer that I had. My Grand Wagoneer had the 360 cubic inch V8 with TorqueFlyte Automatic Transmission and 3.90 differential gearing. The factory 18 gallon fuel tank limited its solo cruising range to 190 to 200 miles on the highway and only about 175 miles when towing the Overlander. My main reason for trading the Grand Wagoneer on a new tow vehicle was to get one with a cruising range at least double what I had with the Grand Wagoneer. I never had four wheel drive issues with the Grand Wagoneer, but have had nothing but four wheel drive problems with the two GM four wheel drive trucks that I have had (the GM trucks have had no problems other than transfer case problems with the four wheel drive mechanisms).

Kevin

That was another concern of mine, cruising range. I've found aftermarket tanks online in a 33 gallon size that mount in the stock location. More than likely one of those will wind up in the Jeep. On a different note I've heard a bunch of folks talk about the later model GM's and the transfercase issues. Hopefully they'll get those ironed out for you.

[69CanStream]

I have an '89 Grand Wagoneer that is my daily driver and tow rig. I repowered it with a 3.9L Cummins. It has a Dodge Ram 3 speed hooked to the Jeep T-case. The Airstream came after the Jeep, so I now wish I had installed a 5.9 Cummins instead! The fuel tank capacity is a joke for the size of the vehicle. I plan on adding an aux. fuel tank in the future. If you want to see some more pictures or want more technical info, let me know.

[zoro]

Originally Posted by 69CanStream

I have an '89 Grand Wagoneer that is my daily driver and tow rig. I repowered it with a 3.9L Cummins. It has a Dodge Ram 3 speed hooked to the Jeep T-case. The Airstream came after the Jeep, so I now wish I had installed a 5.9 Cummins instead! The fuel tank capacity is a joke for the size of the vehicle. I plan on adding an aux. fuel tank in the future. If you want to see some more pictures or want more technical info, let me know.

I'd love to see some photos. I bet you get some impressive MPG's while not towing!

[69CanStream]

I hope this works...
This is my webshot folder of the Waggy..enjoy

[zoro]

Originally Posted by 69CanStream

I hope this works...
This is my webshot folder of the Waggy..enjoy

That's a gorgeous Jeep you have there! I love the "razor" style grille. Just out of curiosity what kind of MPG's are you averaging with the 4BT? I see you've got the helper airsprings, judging by the photos of your rig hooked up to the trailer it looks like they've really helped?

[Road Ruler]

Originally Posted by 69CanStream

I have an '89 Grand Wagoneer that is my daily driver and tow rig. I repowered it with a 3.9L Cummins. It has a Dodge Ram 3 speed hooked to the Jeep T-case. The Airstream came after the Jeep, so I now wish I had installed a 5.9 Cummins instead!

Interesting vehicle. For your light weight vintage Airstream wouldn't the 3.9 be ideal??

PS, Years ago one of the local guys here took a cat diesel out of a bulldozer and dropped in a Suburban. From what I heard it worked good.

PS... Science hill is one of our favourite campgrounds.

[Pillow]

Great ideas and TV rigs here!

The wife and I both like the older GWs, maybe one day we will get crazy and build one up. Either a GW or old Suburban 67-72 style... Either of course would be repowered with either a GM 6.5TD or 4BT.

My advice, drop the 4L60E and go for the beefier (and I think more driveable) 4L80E... Granted a NV4500 would be the gravy if you do not mind shifting!

+1 for a diesel repower as well. Although LS engines are cheap and plentiful, the gas mileage is sad. As is any gasser IMO on towing.

... I have an old J2000 sitting around for a "one of these days" project as well.

[69CanStream]

Originally Posted by zoro

That's a gorgeous Jeep you have there! I love the "razor" style grille. Just out of curiosity what kind of MPG's are you averaging with the 4BT? I see you've got the helper airsprings, judging by the photos of your rig hooked up to the trailer it looks like they've really helped?

I was averaging around 22 MPG last I checked. I know it's a massive improvement over the 360's MPG. I did not go with an overdrive transmission due to drive line clearance issues with the added length. With my tire size (33x12.5R15 and the gearing (2.73) I'd be flying down the road before it would even shift into OD. Keep in mind the Max. governed engine speed of my 4BT is 2800 rpm.
The airbag assist is great when I do tow the trailer. I leave a few PSI in them when not towing and it rides like any other Wagoneer.

[tfbeitz]

I used an '88 360 GW to pull a '71' 31' Excella.
I was always told that the wheelbase was too short but I never had any problems untill i was in a fender bender with out towing. Put the GW on a left to inspect the damage and the lift went thru the frame RUST and along the frame by the gas tank.

A while ago I heard about a fellow that rebuilds GW from the ground up. Probably an internet search would find him.

Good luck

Just remembered the main thing I didnt like about the GW was the rear window being only electric. if you had a problem you had to climbe over the seats to get to the rear and take the panel off