Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 05-27-2015, 10:45 AM   #57
3 Rivet Member
 
ckottum's Avatar
 
2012 25' Flying Cloud
Battle Lake , Minnesota
Join Date: Mar 2015
Posts: 231
Economy. If purchase and operating cost as well as reliability are a concern it is probably best to avoid a tow vehicle with a turbo on the engine. Most of us are recreational travelers, not over-the-road commercial operators; perhaps better to evaluate our actual needs in that context.

cheryl
__________________

__________________
ckottum is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-27-2015, 07:54 PM   #58
Free Range Human
 
Drathaar's Avatar
 
2012 25' FB Flying Cloud
Currently Looking...
Twin Rocks , Oregon
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 709
Images: 4
Quote:
Originally Posted by SilverSinbad View Post
Would you diesel owners give us an idea of you MPG on average.
Thanks
As I mentioned towards the beginning of the thread. It depends. Typically, here on the west coast I average around 13 MPG from my 2014 F350 w/6.7 diesel. It's very terrain and traffic dependent. Empty, I average over 18 on the road, if not doing a lot of stop and go. We just went to and from the Oregon coast twice, taking backroads, with a 1500' climb in the middle. I got 18.6.

With the Airstream attached, I've seen it dip down to 9 on a really tough pull.

Hope that helps.
__________________

__________________
Drathaar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-27-2015, 08:36 PM   #59
Rivet Master
 
Moflash's Avatar
 
2007 28' International CCD
Springfield , Missouri
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 1,167
Airstream Serenity 27FB tow vehicle specs

Quote:
Originally Posted by ashrink12 View Post
"Unfortunately the tongue weight is a constant and does not increase your payload capacity as you have stated.This is a common error in calculating maximum payload."

Dear Moflash

Sorry you didn't grasp my post and you are misunderstanding the purpose of the WD hitch you have purchased and attached to your truck. The WD hitch does not increase a truck's payload rating as you incorrectly state, rather it shifts or redistributes 1/3 of the trailer tongue weight to the trailer's axles and away from the ball/hitch on your truck.

Therefore tongue weight is not a constant as you have stated but is redistributed by your weight distribution hitch away from the tongue to the trailer's axles.

You can measure this be going to a weigh station scale and weighing the front/rear truck axles and the AS axles with and without the WD hitch. This is well explained in the Towing section of your AS manual pg. 7-4.

When calculating the load on your tires/axles you will be adding 1/3 of the trailer's tongue wt. to each of the truck's front and rear axles (or 1/6 of the trailer's tongue weight to each truck tire) with the remaining 1/3 distributed to the trailer axles. This again is outlined in your AS manual.

As the previous poster suggested this can be checked/confirmed at the weigh scales. When adding up hypothetical weights to compare to the trucks stated payload capacity, use the trailer tongue wt. with no WD hitch less 1/3 as a best guess of how much truck payload capacity will be used by hooking up your AS when the WD hitch is employed.

Sorry for any confusion. The AS manual is really helpful in its explanation of the use of WD hitches and the redistribution of trailer tongue weight.

Greg

No problem.
This is where a lot of people make a mistake.
You are only redistributing the load to the front axels of the tv and the tt axels with a wd hitch.The tongue weight remains constant as that hasn't been affected.Read up on the subject it's pretty interesting.


Sent from my iPhone using Airstream Forums
__________________
Moflash is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-27-2015, 09:14 PM   #60
Rivet Master
 
switz's Avatar

 
2014 31' Classic
2015 23' International
2013 25' FB International
Apache Junction , Arizona
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 4,799
Images: 8
The tongue weight remains where it is. The hitch does not move from it's location.

A weight distribution hitch uses leverage to split the downforce vector present at the weigh point of the hitch so some of the downward pressure is apparently over the front axle, the rear axle and the trailer axles. Releasing the spring's tension and the force returns in totality to the jack point.
__________________
WBCCI Life Member 5123, AIR 70341, 4CU, WD9EMC

TV - 2012 Dodge 2500 4x4 Cummins HO, automatic, Centramatics, Kelderman level ride airbag suspension, bed shell

2014 31' Classic model 30 twin beds, 50 amp service, 900 watt solar system, Centramatics, Dill TPMS, disc brakes, 16" tires & wheels
switz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-28-2015, 05:01 AM   #61
Setats
 
2014 27' Flying Cloud
Brooksville , Florida
Join Date: May 2015
Posts: 21
Images: 5
RAM offers the Ram 3.0L EcoDiesel V6 offering 28 mpg highway and 9,200 lb towing. Have no experience with this engine but certainly worth looking into if you think you need a diesel. Agree with the German made ZT 8 speed. Best transmission for this application on the market. Picked up 2 mpg going from the a 6 speed in my 2011 1500 to 8 speed in my 2014 with air ride suspension. Everything else being equal.
__________________
Setats is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-28-2015, 05:55 AM   #62
1 Rivet Member
 
2014 25' Flying Cloud
Asheville , North Carolina
Join Date: Jan 2015
Posts: 16
Smile

Quote:
Originally Posted by Moflash View Post
No problem.
This is where a lot of people make a mistake.
You are only redistributing the load to the front axels of the tv and the tt axels with a wd hitch.The tongue weight remains constant as that hasn't been affected.Read up on the subject it's pretty interesting.


Sent from my iPhone using Airstream Forums
Also not a problem.

Simply reading your AS manual will hopefully keep you from remaining stuck in your poorly understood position of "tongue weight/ hitch weight remains constant and can't be reduced by a WD hitch". You are arguing against the primary purpose of using a weight distributing hitch. Funny that the name weight distribution hitch sorta suggests that weight is being shifted from somewhere to somewhere.

AS are designed/intended to have their excessive tongue weight redistributed(read as partially removed) from the ball of the TV by a weight distributing hitch or some other suspension device that reduces the AS tongue weight when being towed.

AS recommends that the tongue weight when being towed not exceed 10-11% of the total AS weight but yet they build all AS trailer's with an uncorrected tongue weight that is actually equal to or greater than 15% of the total trailer wt.

AS positions their trailer axles such that they intend for you to use a WD hitch or other suspension device to remove excessive trailer tongue wt from your truck hitch. By positioning the AS axles further aft they create a trailer with excessive tongue wt but also one with improved handling characteristics from a longer wheel base. They intend that you will remove some of this excessive trailer tongue weight with a WD hitch or similar device. They do not want you to allow the tongue weight to remain constant or uncorrected by a WD device.

If you insist on believing that truck hitch weight remains constant before and after employing a weight distribution hitch then frankly you will just have to remain stuck in that position. It seems that using a WD hitch to remove excessive weight from your trucks hitch just might not be for you. Whatever you do, don't waste time actually going to a scale and measuring truck tongue weight before/ after applying weight distribution to see that truck hitch weight does not remain constant but in fact becomes redistributed both away from the hitch and away from the truck itself.

If you insist on using the uncorrected AS tongue weight to deduct from a trucks payload capacity, then you will incorrectly add several hundred unnecessary # that are being carried by the AS axels and you can then more easily talk yourself and maybe somebody else into bigger and bigger tow vehicles.

Isn't it funny how everybody seems to like their choice? Aren't discussions fun!
__________________
ashrink12 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-28-2015, 07:13 AM   #63
1 Rivet Member
 
2014 25' Flying Cloud
Asheville , North Carolina
Join Date: Jan 2015
Posts: 16
Quote:
Originally Posted by switz View Post
The tongue weight remains where it is. The hitch does not move from it's location.

A weight distribution hitch uses leverage to split the downforce vector present at the weigh point of the hitch so some of the downward pressure is apparently over the front axle, the rear axle and the trailer axles. Releasing the spring's tension and the force returns in totality to the jack point.
Nice try but trailer/truck hitch weight does not remain constant when applying a weight distribution device.

According to Websters weight is the downward force exerted on an object by gravitational forces. Downward force as you nicely explained it is the same as removing weight from the truck/trailer hitch point. Until I dug in to understand this process, I almost allowed myself to think I needed to go out and buy a bigger truck. I even had the Mrs. convinced that we had to buy a bigger and much more expensive truck!

Drat! Just another missed opportunity! I guess that everyone should choose a TV that makes them feel happy! Either more biggerer or not so more biggerer!
__________________
ashrink12 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-28-2015, 08:01 AM   #64
3 Rivet Member
 
ckottum's Avatar
 
2012 25' Flying Cloud
Battle Lake , Minnesota
Join Date: Mar 2015
Posts: 231
The weight of a bridge remains constant across its length but we build the foundation for it at its ends, because that is where the weight is carried.

cheryl
__________________
ckottum is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-28-2015, 08:50 AM   #65
4 Rivet Member
 
2000 30' Excella
2014 30' Classic
Princeton , Iowa
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 302
If you had a 200 lb. WD hitch, weight has to change. Some time chick the weight on the front end and the weight on the back end of an empty pickup not hooked up. The tongue weight of my 30 classic is about right to make that equal.
__________________
larryglarson is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-29-2015, 10:09 PM   #66
3 Rivet Member
 
timhortons's Avatar
 
2015 16' Sport
Oakville , Ontario
Join Date: Aug 2014
Posts: 234
Images: 29
The Dodge EcoDiesel with the 3.0 at 240HP/420lbs 8spd is rated at 9200lbs towable. It's lower and more stable also.

People here are buying trucks with 20 and 30k lbs tow ratings to tow 6-7klbs trailers.

I don't get it.
__________________
timhortons is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-30-2015, 06:20 AM   #67
Setats
 
2014 27' Flying Cloud
Brooksville , Florida
Join Date: May 2015
Posts: 21
Images: 5
After towing very heavy fifth wheels for 18 yrs. using the RAM Diesels I get a real chuckle seeing a big diesel capable of towing an 18,000 unit towing one that tips the scale at 8,000 lbs. I figure I have the ideal set up for my AS 27' Flying Cloud. The 1500 RAM Hemi combination is excellent.
__________________
Setats is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-30-2015, 09:49 AM   #68
Rivet Master
 
switz's Avatar

 
2014 31' Classic
2015 23' International
2013 25' FB International
Apache Junction , Arizona
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 4,799
Images: 8
Yesterday our trailer weighed 9,260 pounds without food aboard. It has a GVW of 10,000 pounds. Our combined rig can weigh between 18,000 and 19,000 pounds depending if the two generators and fuel and other wife required necessities are in the truck.......

We take what we want since we can. For our situation, the ton diesel truck was the ideal tow vehicle. It also did a great job towing our 2013 25FB that weighed 6,950 pounds camping ready.
__________________
WBCCI Life Member 5123, AIR 70341, 4CU, WD9EMC

TV - 2012 Dodge 2500 4x4 Cummins HO, automatic, Centramatics, Kelderman level ride airbag suspension, bed shell

2014 31' Classic model 30 twin beds, 50 amp service, 900 watt solar system, Centramatics, Dill TPMS, disc brakes, 16" tires & wheels
switz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-30-2015, 12:01 PM   #69
Rivet Master
 
aftermath's Avatar
 
2006 25' Safari FB SE
Spokane , Washington
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 1,133
Quote:
Originally Posted by Moflash View Post
No problem.
This is where a lot of people make a mistake.
You are only redistributing the load to the front axels of the tv and the tt axels with a wd hitch.The tongue weight remains constant as that hasn't been affected.Read up on the subject it's pretty interesting.


Sent from my iPhone using Airstream Forums
Forgive me but I continue to have difficulty grasping your main point here. Namely, "The tongue weight remains constant as that hasn't been affected."

I went through the entire weighing process as described in this post.

http://www.airforums.com/forums/f464...ml#post1111379

Here are a couple of my observations. My rear axle was 2680 without the trailer attached. When I dropped the trailer on the ball without WD hooked up it read 3920. So, I am thinking that the tongue weight is 1240.

But wait....with the WD hooked up the rear axle now reads 3780 for a new TW of 1100 so the TW, at least in my mind has changed. I know it hasn't disappeared but it isn't the same as before.

But wait some more......following the formula to calculate the TW namely, ((FA2 + RA2) - (FA3 + RA3) I came up with 880 which is much different than 1240. Please explain the error in my thinking here. It looks like the TW is not constant and has been affected by something.
__________________
aftermath is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-30-2015, 08:27 PM   #70
Rivet Master
 
Moflash's Avatar
 
2007 28' International CCD
Springfield , Missouri
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 1,167
Quote:
Originally Posted by aftermath View Post
Forgive me but I continue to have difficulty grasping your main point here. Namely, "The tongue weight remains constant as that hasn't been affected."

I went through the entire weighing process as described in this post.

http://www.airforums.com/forums/f464...ml#post1111379

Here are a couple of my observations. My rear axle was 2680 without the trailer attached. When I dropped the trailer on the ball without WD hooked up it read 3920. So, I am thinking that the tongue weight is 1240.

But wait....with the WD hooked up the rear axle now reads 3780 for a new TW of 1100 so the TW, at least in my mind has changed. I know it hasn't disappeared but it isn't the same as before.

But wait some more......following the formula to calculate the TW namely, ((FA2 + RA2) - (FA3 + RA3) I came up with 880 which is much different than 1240. Please explain the error in my thinking here. It looks like the TW is not constant and has been affected by something.
OK,Lets try a simple example.
Hook your Airstream to your tow vehicle without a wd hitch.Now lets say your trailers tongue weight is 800lbs for example.Now grab a 10ft 4x4 and place it under the tow vehicles distribution chassis hitch.Now use the 4x4 as a lever and lift the rear of the tow vehicle (you have super human strength).
Now some of the weight that was on the rear axle is transferred to the front axles as you have the rear of the tow vehicle lifted right?As you are holding the rear of the tow vehicle up(super human strength remember) you place the high end of the 4x4 against the Airstream and now the 4x4 (lever) holds the rear of the tow vehicle in place(in the up position).
A few things have now been affected.

1.A percentage of the load on the rear axle has been transferred to the front axle due to you raising the rear of the tv.

2.The downward force on the 4x4 (lever) transfers additional weight to the Airstream axles because it is holding up the rear end of the tow vehicle. Remember the lever effect?

3.Weight is also removed from the tow vehicles weight distribution chassis hitch.Allowing the hitch to hold more weight with a wd hitch because we are pushing up on it. Remember we placed the 4x4 (lever) under it to lift the rear of the tow vehicle and it is still lifted but the Airstream is holding it up.

Now you tell me what is the trailers tongue weight and how did we affect it?
We did not it is constant but....

In some cases the tongue weight of the trailer increases.Why? Remember the down force that was added to the Airstream in order to continue to hold up the tow vehicle? Lever affect remember?

This is how a wd hitch works.

Simple physics get complicated sometimes
__________________

__________________
Moflash is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
2011 Airstream 27FB Serenity LIKE NEW!!! S2011 Airstream 27FB Serenity LIKE NEW!!! eBay Watch Airstreams on eBay 0 08-27-2011 11:00 AM
2011 Airstream 27FB Serenity LIKE NEW!!! S2011 Airstream 27FB Serenity LIKE NEW!!! eBay Watch Airstreams on eBay 0 08-19-2011 03:00 PM
2011 Airstream 27FB Serenity LIKE NEW!!! S2011 Airstream 27FB Serenity LIKE NEW!!! eBay Watch Airstreams on eBay 0 08-12-2011 02:50 PM
2011 Airstream 27FB Serenity LIKE NEW!!! S2011 Airstream 27FB Serenity LIKE NEW!!! eBay Watch Airstreams on eBay 0 08-05-2011 10:50 AM
2011 Airstream 27FB Serenity LIKE NEW!!! S2011 Airstream 27FB Serenity LIKE NEW!!! eBay Watch Airstreams on eBay 0 07-29-2011 10:40 AM


Virginia Campgrounds

Reviews provided by




Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 02:33 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.

Airstream is a registered trademark of Airstream Inc. All rights reserved. Airstream trademark used under license to Social Knowledge LLC.