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Old 08-11-2013, 08:56 PM   #57
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Originally Posted by featherbedder View Post
Also have com. pilots lic.
So what! I flew a supersonic fighter
and I still tow at 60-65.
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Old 08-11-2013, 09:01 PM   #58
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John,

I've noticed that for the last couple of years. I remember where you always passed the UPS 18 wheelers because I think their trucks were restricted to 55 mph. Not any more since I do see them traveling faster. I also remember until recently when Illinois had a 55 mph limit on trucks, trailers, and RV's. I used to like driving there since I typically wasn't passed by truckers. I think that limitation is gone.

Missouri was always pedal to the metal for the 18 wheelers. I used to hate to see them barreling down on me. A lot of those guys used to travel 75 mph +. Lately though they seem to be traveling between 60 and 70 on the interstates here. I wonder if it has anything to do with GPS tracking for company owned trucks or just the cost of fuel?

Jack
It's all about saving fuel, all the big trucking companies are setting the governor at 60 or lower. I drive for a smaller company (100 trucks) and we used to have 70 as top speed then they knocked it back to 67. We do mostly local at our facility in KC so it don't make much difference.
Now the ones that will blow by you are the bull racks (cattle haulers), they are mostly owner/operators and there is no governor restriction on their trucks.
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Old 08-11-2013, 09:06 PM   #59
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It's interesting to Google 'impending the flow of traffic'


City of Pasadena

Impeding Traffic Law & Legal Definition

Impeding the Flow of Traffic

Wow. Lots of passion on this subject
Indeed...

Problem comes to mind is a difficult issue of continuums...how many grains of sand does it take before those grains become a "pile of sand"?

Ie the "continuum fallacy"....often cited in discussions.

We are told to not exceed the legal speed limit...which implies that going slower than the speed limit is what is intended...but "too much below" and you are creating unsafe conditions.

""""That law states that “no person shall drive upon a highway at such a slow speed as to impede or block the normal and reasonable movement of traffic, unless the reduced speed is necessary for safe operation, because of a grade, or in compliance with the law.” """" (from the first link you provided - this in CA i think)


So...how slow is too slow? I suspect trying to draw lines is a bit like trying to answer that question about grains of sand...its a bit futile but perhaps necessary...judgement I suppose comes to mind...

I suspect that 60-65mph will not be as contentious assuming you keep to the right....I think getting down to 55 in a 70 or 80mph hwy starts to get down though to a point where you may be just too slow on such fast interstates...perhaps 55 is doable, but not much slower IMO...
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Old 08-11-2013, 09:10 PM   #60
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featherbedder - I think 40-45 is at or below posted minimums on most interstates (I think most often it is 45....

It is obvious that at "some point" in "some scenarios" driving "significant slower" than "most" traffic will be hazardous....but to be clear, are you suggesting that towing 60mph in a posted 70mph limit interstate is "unsafe"

I see also that perhaps you are speaking only of folks going slower in the left lane and not people going slower than posted limit who keep right?

I am interested in your perspective and experience, but you will need to be a touch more clear...especially with me cause I can be a dullard and miss the point
I did not suggest 60 in 70 is unsafe left lane hogs are unsafe at any speed. As for my exp. I have close to 3 mil. miles driving exp. very good safety record as I have always practiced safety both with myself and with my co. now defunct and my employers, as I am close to 80 retired but not slow poke, not toddering and doddering as I still drive sprint cars, midgets, as a side note most people think I'm 60, no one has guessed my age past 65
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Old 08-11-2013, 09:14 PM   #61
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The company I work for has a 65 mph speed limit. This is to,save fuel and to improve safety.
I travel the posted speed limit with no trailer in my own car. I never exceed the speed limit because it is my belief that we should honor and obey the laws of the land.
I travel 65 in a company vehicle trailer or no trailer (I'm not buying the gas/diesel).
I travel 55 while towing the Airstream to save gas ( I am buying the gas).
Don't worry about all those cars going 75-80. They will go around you. They will not hit you.
I travel in the right lane as much as possible, only moving over to let someone coming up the ramp in and then moving back into the right lane. Sometimes I don't even move over then. I just slow a little more to let the other car in then resume my speed.
In areas where there are 3 or more lanes of traffic in the same direction I will take the middle or middle right lane (the lane of least resistance). Doing this allows the fast drivers to pass on my left and where there are many on/off ramps cars can enter/exit without affecting my travel. I can maintain a constant speed.
If you pay attention as you are traveling the same speeding cars pass you several times on the same trip. I don't know if they get hungry more often, use the bathroom more often, or get fuel more often, but they don't get there any sooner, but have risked getting a fine and increased insurance premiums. I have not taken those chances.
The same thing goes for regular highways with traffic lights. Watch all,those cars speed past you just to be caught at the very next light with you. They are not getting anywhere any faster, they are just displaying their lackmofnpatience and what a great big hurry they are in.
I can watch the same car speeding, running stop signs, running red lights, cutting people off, constantly changing lanes, and when I turn into my driveway they are still just in front of me and I have done none of those things.
I think the reason might be that 99% of all people are selfish and don't pay attention.
It never seems to cross their minds that they aren't getting ahead, but are stressing out other drivers, using more gas, and wearing out their brakes.
There is no circumstance that justifies breaking the law. I don't care if 99% of all drivers exceed the speed limit. That doesn't make it OK for me to do it. Two wrongs don't make a right.
I will the entire 7-8 hour trip to Canopener at 55. When y'all come around me smile and wave. I'll see ya when we get there.
The WBCCI travels at a predetermined safe "slow" speed for a reason.
Keeping up with the "flow" of traffic doesn't justify speeding.
You are no less or more in danger for traveling 55, 60, 65, or 70. It is your personal preference as to where your best fuel economy is.
Exceeding the speed limit, however, is not a matter of personal preference. It is just plain breaking the law. The statistics are real.
Going 70 in a car is one thing. Going 70 while towing is a whole other story. It is like driving 2 cars with 1 steering wheel and it bends in the middle, making it easier to loose control. I speak from experience here. I have damaged a trailer and tow vehicle from hydroplaning, which is basically caused by exceeding the safe speed for conditions.
The only time a driver should even go the posted limit is in optimum conditions- sunny, clear, and dry. In any other circumstance of weather or environment speed should be reduced.
Do I sound like a Fleet Coordinator? Oh well. That's what they call me at work. That is my fancy title that doesn't mean much, but our company is dedicated to 0 injuries and 0 auto accidents. Reducing speed is 1 of many proven ways to meet that goal.
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Old 08-11-2013, 09:24 PM   #62
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Originally Posted by m.hony View Post
The company I work for has a 65 mph speed limit. This is to,save fuel and to improve safety.
I travel the posted speed limit with no trailer in my own car. I never exceed the speed limit because it is my belief that we should honor and obey the laws of the land.
I travel 65 in a company vehicle trailer or no trailer (I'm not buying the gas/diesel).
I travel 55 while towing the Airstream to save gas ( I am buying the gas).
Don't worry about all those cars going 75-80. They will go around you. They will not hit you.......( snip )

.....snip ! ( that was a long post ! )

.....but yes, what he said ! Especially, the part about "they will go around you....they will not hit you".

I've been driving since the late 60's, and I have seen quite a few accidents caused by too much speed, but I can't remember seeing any caused by too little speed. ( I know....I'm sure it happens....but it just ain't as prevalent as the "too much speed" thing ).
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Old 08-11-2013, 09:37 PM   #63
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Smile 55 mph

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Originally Posted by Pahaska View Post
So what! I flew a supersonic fighter
and I still tow at 60-65.
I Responded as to what my qualifications were as to my driving, my hat is off to you as fighter pilot and all vets. I am also vet. but not pilot. I did not fly puddle jumpers not as fast as you did. As far as 60 65 you are not going 45, I tow 65 70 as this is the speed that I feel comfortable at
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Old 08-11-2013, 10:01 PM   #64
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I find traffic lights are the real "great equalizers" in traveling.

Commuting, or running errands, I more often than not end up next to the person who had to pass. Whether towing or solo. Just one of those things I suppose.

Here in Austin area it is like the rats want to be first to the bait.. Let 'em. It is showing up all over as "people" lose the awareness of each others dignity.

I mention this because I feel lousy when I notice I am speeding. It isn't just the getting caught, but what could happen if things went north..... Not worth it.

Also, there was no way I could travel a certain highway at 1/2 posted speed. It was bad road which I am sure flexed my AS a lot. Thing moved which have never moved before... Should an officer have enacted a traffic stop I am confident my reason would be agreed to. If not I will take it to court.

One of my quips , " A screen door is a great invention, however, installing one on a submarine is a lousy application. ". Traffic laws should be obeyed unless conditions warrant differently.

We should run our lives and equipment as designed and within design criteria. In flying there are instruments telling you the design limits... VNE (velocity never exceed) , "do not deeply flaps over x velocity", there are green, yellow and red lines to warn of design limits. Our AS, tow vehicles, loading, weight and balance are crucial, but more forgiving in the automotive world when compared to aviation or nautical ventures.

To me, this means good maintenance, careful speed and deceleration and managing my personal space. If I drive 55 in a 60, I will return a smile and open hand wave to the "archers salute"(bird finger)...
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Old 08-11-2013, 10:20 PM   #65
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Good points - I commute from Birmingham to Tuscaloosa every day.

I times myself for a week at 75 vs 65.

Results were functionally 2 min saved on a near hour commute.

Fuel efficiency loss taken into account - that loss equated to cost out of my pocket of 60 dollars per hour cost to do that extra speed.

Put in those terms of cost per time saved and it seems less inviting IMO
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Old 08-11-2013, 10:52 PM   #66
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Originally Posted by PharmGeek View Post
Good points - I commute from Birmingham to Tuscaloosa every day.

I times myself for a week at 75 vs 65.

Results were functionally 2 min saved on a near hour commute.

Fuel efficiency loss taken into account - that loss equated to cost out of my pocket of 60 dollars per hour cost to do that extra speed.

Put in those terms of cost per time saved and it seems less inviting IMO
I think you might want to recheck either your grammar or your math. That doesn't make any sense to me. Even at $5.00 a gallon 60 dollars will buy 12 gallons. At even 10 MPG you will go 120 miles on that 12 gallons of gas. I'm sure your drop in MPG must of been much less than 10.

Ken
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Old 08-12-2013, 01:28 AM   #67
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55mph... Safe... and makes sense!

Quote:
Originally Posted by m.hony View Post
The company I work for has a 65 mph speed limit. This is to,save fuel and to improve safety.
I travel the posted speed limit with no trailer in my own car. I never exceed the speed limit because it is my belief that we should honor and obey the laws of the land.
I travel 65 in a company vehicle trailer or no trailer (I'm not buying the gas/diesel).
I travel 55 while towing the Airstream to save gas ( I am buying the gas).
Don't worry about all those cars going 75-80. They will go around you. They will not hit you.
I travel in the right lane as much as possible, only moving over to let someone coming up the ramp in and then moving back into the right lane. Sometimes I don't even move over then. I just slow a little more to let the other car in then resume my speed.
In areas where there are 3 or more lanes of traffic in the same direction I will take the middle or middle right lane (the lane of least resistance). Doing this allows the fast drivers to pass on my left and where there are many on/off ramps cars can enter/exit without affecting my travel. I can maintain a constant speed.
If you pay attention as you are traveling the same speeding cars pass you several times on the same trip. I don't know if they get hungry more often, use the bathroom more often, or get fuel more often, but they don't get there any sooner, but have risked getting a fine and increased insurance premiums. I have not taken those chances.
The same thing goes for regular highways with traffic lights. Watch all,those cars speed past you just to be caught at the very next light with you. They are not getting anywhere any faster, they are just displaying their lackmofnpatience and what a great big hurry they are in.
I can watch the same car speeding, running stop signs, running red lights, cutting people off, constantly changing lanes, and when I turn into my driveway they are still just in front of me and I have done none of those things.
I think the reason might be that 99% of all people are selfish and don't pay attention.
It never seems to cross their minds that they aren't getting ahead, but are stressing out other drivers, using more gas, and wearing out their brakes.
There is no circumstance that justifies breaking the law. I don't care if 99% of all drivers exceed the speed limit. That doesn't make it OK for me to do it. Two wrongs don't make a right.
I will the entire 7-8 hour trip to Canopener at 55. When y'all come around me smile and wave. I'll see ya when we get there.
The WBCCI travels at a predetermined safe "slow" speed for a reason.
Keeping up with the "flow" of traffic doesn't justify speeding.
You are no less or more in danger for traveling 55, 60, 65, or 70. It is your personal preference as to where your best fuel economy is.
Exceeding the speed limit, however, is not a matter of personal preference. It is just plain breaking the law. The statistics are real.
Going 70 in a car is one thing. Going 70 while towing is a whole other story. It is like driving 2 cars with 1 steering wheel and it bends in the middle, making it easier to loose control. I speak from experience here. I have damaged a trailer and tow vehicle from hydroplaning, which is basically caused by exceeding the safe speed for conditions.
The only time a driver should even go the posted limit is in optimum conditions- sunny, clear, and dry. In any other circumstance of weather or environment speed should be reduced.
Do I sound like a Fleet Coordinator? Oh well. That's what they call me at work. That is my fancy title that doesn't mean much, but our company is dedicated to 0 injuries and 0 auto accidents. Reducing speed is 1 of many proven ways to meet that goal.
Thanks m.hony for your post regarding reasons to observe the speed limit (to save fuel, improve safety, and to honor and obey the laws) and for your observations regarding speeders and strategies when vehicles are entering from the on-ramp.

It seems that not only are more drivers today in a hurry, they are also distracted by using cell phones and other hi-tech devices. (Have you noticed that less people today signal lane changes because one hand is holding the cell phone while the other hand is holding the steering wheel, if that!)

The California Highway Patrol re: recreational vehicles: "Vehicles that are towing are required by law not to travel more than 55 MPH regardless of speed limit! (VC Sec. 22406).

In addition to all of that, most Airstream trailers originally come from the factory with Marathon ST tires, and it is generally understood that all ST tires have a maximum speed rating of 65 mph. So staying below 65 mph while towing will prolong the life of my second set of Marathon tires!
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Old 08-12-2013, 04:49 AM   #68
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Traveling at or below the posted limit is another way to control the space in front of your vehicle.
You must control,the space in front of your vehicle.
Going with the "flow" of traffic takes away this control.
It leads to "wolf packing", a very dangerous situation as multiple cars are traveling together side by side and bumper to bumper. There is no escape route for evasive maneuvers. If the slightest event occurs (a deer entering the roadway) there is a multi-car pile-up.
The way to avoid an accident is to travel "alone". That is no one beside you and maintaining a 5-6 second or more following distance. A tip to gauge following distance is to pick a stationary object (billboard, road sign, mile marker post, etc.). As the car ahead of you passes that stationary object begin counting one thousand, two thousand, three thousand, etc. you should count to five or six thousand before your front bumper reaches that stationary object.
A simpler way of gauging following distance- if you can read the license plate of the car in front of you, you are too close and need to increase following distance.
Increasing following distance can also help prevent you from being hit from the rear by another driver. When a panic stop occurs, you can decrease speed more gradually allowing those behind you time to see the danger and slow down.
All the annoying situations on the highway are caused by speeders, not those in the right lane traveling under the speed limit.
Try it yourself. Go 75 one day and notice how many times you change lanes or have to pass or slow down to maintain your speed. Then go 70 and notice you hardly ever have to pass or slow down or change lanes. I will always take the option that requires less action/interaction on my part and arrive more rested and less stressed.
Remember the things you learned in Driver's Ed or the Driver's Handbook when you got your Driver's license at age 15 or 16. Those good habits worked then and they work now.
If you are a speeder and have not received a citation or been in a crash you are just plain lucky. Quit gambling. Your luck will run out one day.
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Old 08-12-2013, 06:43 AM   #69
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I travel at whatever speed I have to, to not be in a wolf pack. To me the hazards of other vehicles being nearby is 10 times more dangerous as a little extra speed. Speed combined with everyone being 3 feet off each other's bumpers is a recipe for disaster. I hate idiots going slow in the fast lane and the ones that sit there drag racing a truck for 30 mins are beyond stupid. Trucks are hazard zones because they drive like maniacs going 80+ many times. They can't always see you. Tires blow out and you don't know where the tires pieces are going to go. You get pelted with rocks. You can't see hazards in front of you. Trucks passing me is far less disturbing than cars passing at 100 MPH. I like to have a 360 picture of what is around me. There are areas where I can't see pulling a trailer but I like to know what is going on in the mirrors. I don't tail gate so I can spend more time looking in the mirrors and paying attention to what is coming up on me from behind. Being alert is the key to safety while towing even more than when driving solo.

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Old 08-12-2013, 09:36 AM   #70
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PharmGeek --

I know this is a tangent from your question, but have you considered looking at travel via the pre-interstate farm roads? I've driven many of them between Bangor Maine in the North, Savannah Ga in the south and through Ohio in the far west. I've typically found the 55 MPH limits preserved, less big rig and road-pack traffic and a far more enjoyable experience; allowing one to enjoy the trip from point A to point B as well as the experience at point B when you arrive. (Who knew that portions of Route 1 are scenic highways with amazing views and miles of uninterrupted stretches?)

Yes, the roads tend not to be leveled or straightened out as the highways can be, and yes there are often annoying small towns sitting in the way with their stop lights and speed limit changes approaching and embarking from; but for the most part you gain the perks of the enjoyment of travel, lots of antique shops, the occasional pig roast in August.

I don't miss the efficiencies the highway systems introduce and while traveling DC to Boston may take two hours longer, I am most refreshed by the experience.

Ian
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