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Old 07-06-2015, 07:15 PM   #1
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3/4 Ton SUV?

After reading about the "2 rollovers' recently, we are looking at options for towing our new 23 FB FC. We would prefer a SUV over a truck. It seems a 3/4 ton SUV would work. Thoughts? Looking at 2015 GMC Yukon Denali XL.
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Old 07-06-2015, 07:24 PM   #2
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Any 1/2 ton pickup or equally rated SUV should work fine for a 23'. One advantage with a 3/4 ton is the added weight in the pickup bed or SUV is handled better than a 1/2 ton rated when you include the hitch weight. Another option is adding a Firestone rear air bag system. I even have one on my 3/4 ton to equalize everything. Works for me anyway.
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Old 07-06-2015, 07:32 PM   #3
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We tow a 23'with a 2001 Yukon Denali XL and I think the 2015 could work fine for you because of the long wheelbase, and highest in class horsepower and torque. BUT, it is not a 3/4 ton chassis, it is a half ton.

The limit I think you need to check out is the carrying capacity margin it has for all of your "stuff". If you travel light it could be fine, but if you pack a lot of people and gear you may want the 3/4 ton chassis -- which no one offers on an SUV currently.

There are rumors of one to come from GM, so if you can wait a bit maybe something will appear. Otherwise, if you want a 3/4 ton SUV you will have to go used.
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Old 07-07-2015, 08:42 AM   #4
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My air-bag correspondence....notice the RONG advise.

----Original Message-----
From: Robert Crosse [mailto:xxxxxxxxxxx]
Sent: Sunday, September 04, 2011 10:59 AM
To: info@suspenXXXXXXXXX
Subject: Airbag Chev Suburban

I am wondering how much more payload I will gain by adding rear bags to
my 06 3/4 Burb. Not sure of what the "level load capacity" of the Burb
is now.
I am concerned about overloading the axle as I tow an RV. How much would
I gain by upgrading the suspension with a quality air bag system.
Look forward to your recommendations.

Thank You,
Bob


On Sep 7, 2011, at 12:34 PM, INFO @ Suspensixxxxxxxx wrote:

The Firestone air bags will increase your weight carrying capacity by
5000 pounds. I definitely recommend this system for your Burb:
Chevy Firestone Air Bags - 2000-2009 Chevy Suburban 2500 4x4 & 2wd - Firestone "Ride-Rite" Air Bag Helper Springs (Rear)

Thanks
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Tires & axle ratings are what limits your "load carrying" capacity, aftermarket air bags level, and may even stiffen the suspension if overinflated.

SUV choice....all I can say is, we have a 2006, 2500, 8.1L Burb and love it. BUT... we also have an overweight 25' Classic.

With a 23FC a properly optioned 1500 should do very well.

Bob
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Old 07-07-2015, 08:52 AM   #5
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I tow my 23 Safari happily and I feel safely with a 2011 Jeep Grand Cherokee Overland 4X4 Hemi 5.7. It is an excellent all around vehicle for daily driving and towing my trailer. Currently averaging 15 MPG towing. The 23 is well within both over all towing and hitch weights.
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Old 07-07-2015, 09:09 AM   #6
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3/4 ton Suburbans have a leaf spring rear suspension. The half tons have coil springs on the rear suspension. The 2500's also have the larger 6.0 liter engine. We had a 2012 23FB that we towed with the 2500 Suburban. It was a good match. The 23FB has a relatively light tongue weight. The 1500 Suburban would probably do just fine, even with the smaller engine.

Gm dropped the Suburban 2500 in 2014, but it has been reported that they are bringing it back for 2016, but only for law enforcement and government customers. You could probably special order one and wait for it.

Brian
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Old 07-07-2015, 09:41 AM   #7
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Dishonest salesmen place you at risk!

Quote:
Originally Posted by ROBERT CROSS View Post
My air-bag correspondence....notice the RONG advise.

----Original Message-----
From: Robert Crosse [mailto:xxxxxxxxxxx]
Sent: Sunday, September 04, 2011 10:59 AM
To: info@suspenXXXXXXXXX
Subject: Airbag Chev Suburban

I am wondering how much more payload I will gain by adding rear bags to
my 06 3/4 Burb. Not sure of what the "level load capacity" of the Burb
is now.
I am concerned about overloading the axle as I tow an RV. How much would
I gain by upgrading the suspension with a quality air bag system.
Look forward to your recommendations.

Thank You,
Bob


On Sep 7, 2011, at 12:34 PM, INFO @ Suspensixxxxxxxx wrote:

The Firestone air bags will increase your weight carrying capacity by
5000 pounds. I definitely recommend this system for your Burb:
Chevy Firestone Air Bags - 2000-2009 Chevy Suburban 2500 4x4 & 2wd - Firestone "Ride-Rite" Air Bag Helper Springs (Rear)

Thanks
__________________________________________________ ______________

Tires & axle ratings are what limits your "load carrying" capacity, aftermarket air bags level, and may even stiffen the suspension if overinflated.

SUV choice....all I can say is, we have a 2006, 2500, 8.1L Burb and love it. BUT... we also have an overweight 25' Classic.

With a 23FC a properly optioned 1500 should do very well.

Bob
Thanks Bob for sharing this. My view is that this dealer is being totally dishonest and showing a complete disregard for the safety of his customers. It is a fact that airbags added to the rear do not increase cargo capacity. The fine print you will find with Firestone says so.

Folks are mislead and misinformed into believing they can strap some airbags on the rear and get additional capacity. When as a matter of fact they may well be creating a dangerous scenario from a vehicle dynamics scenario. Here is a quote from a tow vehicle dynamics expert:

"Stiffening the rear springs or adding rear airbags without doing so proportionally at the front, transfers more of the roll couple (roll resistance) to the rear suspension. This yet further loads up the outer tyre whilst cornering, thus increasing its slip angle. Here again if that footprint collapses or slides there is a very real risk of jack-knifing. This is not theoretical conjecture. It happens.

Because of the above, vehicle manufacturer's intended front/rear slip angle relationship should not be changed. If the rear suspension is stiffened (or air bags fitted), so should the front to the same degree (or a stiffer roll bar added) to maintain the intended roll resistance balance."


Maybe I am being too harsh in my criticism of the salesman. Perhaps he was simply repeating what he had been told?? Unfortunately as said by Tireman9 in a post the other day, we have to know more than the salesman!
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Old 07-07-2015, 10:36 AM   #8
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Thumbs up

Alan, not too harsh at all.

The companies disclaimer may very well be in the term "level load capacity", something I had never heard of before......


"Ride-Rite Air Bags:
Firestone Ride-Rite line is designed for most full-size trucks, including all 3/4 ton and 1 ton applications. Rated at 5,000 lbs, these heavy duty double convoluted air springs offer maximum load support. Once mounted between the frame and suspension of a truck or suv these air springs will increase your level load capacity along with improving your ride and handling when towing heavy loads. Equipped with inflation valves these air bags can easily be inflated or defaulted manually or with an optional air compressor system, allowing you control of the stiffness or softness of your ride. Ride-Rite kits are designed for a hassle free installation. Most kits install with no holes to drill and will fit with most fifth wheel and gooseneck hitch applications."

Granted...I baited the salesman with my statement that I wasn't sure of what my "level load capacity" was to start with, hoping to get an explanation of the term, but no such luck.

I guess it's whatever load you have in the vehicle when it's "level", or maybe "double convoluted"


POI....the rear springs on our 2500 Burb are rated at 5500lbs, a 10500lb level load capacity is dream-worthy.

Bob
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Old 07-07-2015, 01:49 PM   #9
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Bob,
Here it is tucked away in the Firestone Ride-Rite site:
http://riderite.com/installation-sup...sked-questions

Question #3 is as follows:
Q: Does this allow my truck to carry more weight?

Absolutely not. Only the vehicle manufacturer can set the GVWR. Even with the air springs, you have the same brakes, axles, bearings and frame stiffness which in part determine the vehicles load capability. The Ride- Rite air helper springs simply allow you to carry the maximum capacity of your truck more comfortably and without suspension sag and the poor handling that comes with it.

Unfortunately they do not point out that you should do something to the front as well. This becomes particularly true when you are talking about a tow vehicle.

By the way, I believe I have seen this disclaimer elsewhere on one of their sites and it was more prominent as I remember. I can't find it at the moment.

Apologies to Longboard for hijacking his thread. Perhaps this air bag topic deserves a thread of its own. I will start one now. Sorry Longboard!
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Old 07-08-2015, 03:29 PM   #10
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The 2015/16 Yukon Denali XL would be the perfect TV for your trailer. It's got more than enough power and the 8-speed transmission is wonderful. I've had one since November.

The SUV has a 1500 lbs payload capacity (source) and your 23 RB FC has a dry tongue weight of less than 500 lbs (source). With the built-in brake controller all you might want is some slip on tow mirrors. I don't see that CIPA has any available at the moment but they should soon.

As others have posted, it's a 1/2 ton but, IMO, a 3/4 ton is overkill for your trailer and, if you've got to drive it around unhitched, it'll drive you nuts.
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Old 07-08-2015, 04:08 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by moosetags View Post
3/4 ton Suburbans have a leaf spring rear suspension. The half tons have coil springs on the rear suspension. The 2500's also have the larger 6.0 liter engine. We had a 2012 23FB that we towed with the 2500 Suburban. It was a good match. The 23FB has a relatively light tongue weight. The 1500 Suburban would probably do just fine, even with the smaller engine.

Gm dropped the Suburban 2500 in 2014, but it has been reported that they are bringing it back for 2016, but only for law enforcement and government customers. You could probably special order one and wait for it.

Brian
Don't count on it. I believe you will find ALL retail orders will not be allowed for distribution. This truck is not a true 2500, but substantially beefed 1500 designated for armor upfitting.
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